933 réponses à ce sujet

[erynnar]

Riknas wrote...

erynnar wrote...

No, you think it's better. And as for your comment about their armor? Well, they did have a blacksmith in DAO, I killed him. And they steal armor from the people they drag undergournd, modifyinng it. And the new darkspawn's armor is far more clean and better made then DAO's version...chainmail coifs? Full plate armor that all looks clean and the same? Yeah, we're, gonna have to agree to disagree.

And for the record, I think the new ones look more cookie cutter, with less variety. And I haven't seen anything by BioWare stating why they made them all look like Skeletor's bastard progeny who got dental appointments and snazzy new armor. They changed the art style (one of my personal gripes) into something that works better on a console and went more arcade anime. I wouldn't say it's a "direction" as an experiment. Whether you think it was a success or a failure is personal opinion and has nothing to do with my being able to "see" BioWare's vision or direction. I for one am advocating for them to cease this direction myself.

True, true, it's better only in my opinion, and I concede that the hurlock armor is far too clean. But in regards to the blacksmiths, hell, if you killed them, maybe that's why their armor is so crappy now, eh? Really though, even in the codex entries of the forgemasters hammer (at least, it's a hammer if I remember right...) suggest that they work off very simple, (though effective) jagged and barbaric design.

This is why I think we should keep the principal look of the darkspawn, and add more variations to their armor so they don't look so very uniform, which is what I saw as one of the original flaws of the remarkably well-armed hurlocks and genlocks who all came out prepared perfectly for war.

The newer darkspawn equipments are far more jagged, and cover less skin, which does better lend itself to the idea it was modified. But yes, they need to step back on the "clean" factor, and we need more variety, bring back the alphas and the other darkspawn (with their new looks) and it'll be a more distinct and creative style.

Okay gotcha! I understand your point of view better! Thanks for clarifying! Still have to agree to disagree, I want the old ones back. They kept the golems same look (which I thought should have been tweaked to make them look different. Shale looked cool to me, the other golems...meh in DAO). But I prefer the old darkspawn.

I do agree with you, more variety! Genlocks, Hurlocks, Shrieks all need to come back.

[colata]

As for OP's subject, I do like grim, gritty styles of dragon age origin, yet a bit of style with realistic look would do good with both console kiddies and core gamers alike..

Overall artwork of DA2 is kind of light, cartoonish, looks easy yet guess it's hard to carry serious messages or weight of story with cartoonish style.

Deus Ex HR or underworld for dark fantasy concept art and starwars for hi fantasy?...



DA2's environment are too clean and bright in general, I think they didn't quite well present the game with right atmosphere.

Now, I think about it, games with good art work and great atmosphere are far better at making gamers immersed in the environment.

Dead space 1, gears of war is very good game with environment and atmosphere that could completely suck gamers in for the time of playing.


Also trying out different environment wouldn't hurt as there are so many good games and movies that utilizes different environment deliverately to give audience refreshing feeling.

i.e. starwars series, call of duty modern warfare 2, crysis 1, warhead.

Everything happening in the same old environment and weather (bright, clean daylight or clean night) isn't good idea as it abandon the weather and environment factor in general, which ,if used properly, could be important factor that contribute to game's overall immersiveness.

Modifié par colata, 11 juin 2011 - 09:05 .

[Zanallen]

Does the codex say that Darkspawn themselves are too stupid to be blacksmiths and use ghouls to craft their weapons and armor? So why is there a Genlock Forge Master in Origins?

[TEWR]

I don't remember any codex entry saying that. I remember some saying they take captives to eat them, but not one that said they took them to have them make weapons, though they probably do that so they can churn out weapons and armor faster. Doesn't mean they can't do it themselves.


What strikes me as interesting is the Dwarven version of the codex entry. Not only does it say that they were the first to see the Darkspawn, but that they were "Creatures in our own likeness". It doesn't just say they encountered them first before surfacers did. It says they encountered the Genlocks. Meaning the Genlocks were the first of the darkspawn.

And then there's the Primeval Thaig and Red Lyrium.


Chantry story's validity = 0

[Riknas]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't remember any codex entry saying that. I remember some saying they take captives to eat them, but not one that said they took them to have them make weapons, though they probably do that so they can churn out weapons and armor faster. Doesn't mean they can't do it themselves.


What strikes me as interesting is the Dwarven version of the codex entry. Not only does it say that they were the first to see the Darkspawn, but that they were "Creatures in our own likeness". It doesn't just say they encountered them first before surfacers did. It says they encountered the Genlocks. Meaning the Genlocks were the first of the darkspawn.

And then there's the Primeval Thaig and Red Lyrium.


Chantry story's validity = 0

If the first encounter is of the genlocks, that reverts back to the idea that the first darkspawn were deviations of the Dwarven race, which supports the argument that they are corruptions of living things, rather than a completely separate entity.

[stragonar]

Brockololly wrote...
 They look too much like a nutjob that rolled around in some chalk dust and started jumping around like a chimp.

my ribs still hurt from this.

[erynnar]

Riknas wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't remember any codex entry saying that. I remember some saying they take captives to eat them, but not one that said they took them to have them make weapons, though they probably do that so they can churn out weapons and armor faster. Doesn't mean they can't do it themselves.


What strikes me as interesting is the Dwarven version of the codex entry. Not only does it say that they were the first to see the Darkspawn, but that they were "Creatures in our own likeness". It doesn't just say they encountered them first before surfacers did. It says they encountered the Genlocks. Meaning the Genlocks were the first of the darkspawn.

And then there's the Primeval Thaig and Red Lyrium.


Chantry story's validity = 0

If the first encounter is of the genlocks, that reverts back to the idea that the first darkspawn were deviations of the Dwarven race, which supports the argument that they are corruptions of living things, rather than a completely separate entity.

Yes, but at this lat date, they have their own ways of breeding more of their kind, and who is to say that all Broodmothes have to be stolen and mutated human females? Even bee colonies make new queens born of the old one. So, biologically speaking, they are probably now their own species with only a passing similarity to their human, elven, Qunari, and dwarven cousins.

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I don't remember any codex entry saying that. I remember some saying they take captives to eat them, but not one that said they took them to have them make weapons, though they probably do that so they can churn out weapons and armor faster. Doesn't mean they can't do it themselves.


What strikes me as interesting is the Dwarven version of the codex entry. Not only does it say that they were the first to see the Darkspawn, but that they were "Creatures in our own likeness". It doesn't just say they encountered them first before surfacers did. It says they encountered the Genlocks. Meaning the Genlocks were the first of the darkspawn.

And then there's the Primeval Thaig and Red Lyrium.


Chantry story's validity = 0

The Chantry lying?

[TEWR]

I know, shocking isn't it? The Chantry is just the shining example of truth and kindness!

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I know, shocking isn't it? The Chantry is just the shining example of truth and kindness!

*highfive*

But anyway, it does look like the writers are trying to show us that the Chantry is lying about the darkspawn and this could come in handy during the war. The Chantrys version of the darkspawn is the reason why they lock up mages in the first place, if that was proven false it would cause hell.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I know, shocking isn't it? The Chantry is just the shining example of truth and kindness!

*highfive*

But anyway, it does look like the writers are trying to show us that the Chantry is lying about the darkspawn and this could come in handy during the war. The Chantrys version of the darkspawn is the reason why they lock up mages in the first place, if that was proven false it would cause hell.

I imagine they've been keeping old records and artifacts hidden and saying they were "lost" or "never existed" because it would weaken their power. I wonder if we may find some things like that? Because I hope we do.

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I know, shocking isn't it? The Chantry is just the shining example of truth and kindness!

*highfive*

But anyway, it does look like the writers are trying to show us that the Chantry is lying about the darkspawn and this could come in handy during the war. The Chantrys version of the darkspawn is the reason why they lock up mages in the first place, if that was proven false it would cause hell.

I imagine they've been keeping old records and artifacts hidden and saying they were "lost" or "never existed" because it would weaken their power. I wonder if we may find some things like that? Because I hope we do.

It's probaly all locked up in the Divines room or something. She looks at it at night and does a evil laugh.

[TEWR]

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I know, shocking isn't it? The Chantry is just the shining example of truth and kindness!

*highfive*

But anyway, it does look like the writers are trying to show us that the Chantry is lying about the darkspawn and this could come in handy during the war. The Chantrys version of the darkspawn is the reason why they lock up mages in the first place, if that was proven false it would cause hell.

I imagine they've been keeping old records and artifacts hidden and saying they were "lost" or "never existed" because it would weaken their power. I wonder if we may find some things like that? Because I hope we do.

It's probaly all locked up in the Divines room or something. She looks at it at night and does a evil laugh.

like this? http://www.hark.com/...tar-cackle-star

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

like this? http://www.hark.com/...tar-cackle-star

:lol:

[Kerethos]

The Origins Hurlock became an iconic creature for the series. It combines a deformed, humanoid skull with a sense of snakelike reptilian features into a creature that is truly horrifying. When you see it up close, you know that beast is going to rip you to pieces and suck the marrow from your bones - with bare hands and nasty fangs if it has too. It inspires fear and a sense that it’s a viscous predator.

The Dragon Age 2 Hurlock has lost out on the core of what made the Hurlock work. It doesn't inspire any fear; it just looks ill, plagued and suffering. Like killing it would be an act of mercy.

That doesn’t mean that a reversal to the origins design is what is required, but it does mean that a new design – that captures the sense horror and vicious predator from Origins – is what many of us fans want.

Edit:
This is what the dwarven codex entry says on the origin of the Darkspawn:
"The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage.

At first they were few, easily hunted and slain by our warriors. But in the recesses of the Deep Roads, they grew in numbers and in courage. Our distant thaigs came under attack, and now it was the army, not a few warriors, being sent to deal with the creatures. Victories still came easily, though, and we thought the threat would soon be over.

We were wrong."

Modifié par Kerethos_, 13 juin 2011 - 05:54 .

[colata]

Yea, afterall, all these gaming fantasy world background stories and artwork is basically made for kidies and such....kinds of people...

It felt just downright showcase of dumb:wizard: dumb:wizard: to use kiddie art style.

It already has blood, sex and severed limbs, then why go with kiddie style? when it's obvious some ppl who's not kiddies don't like it.

Serious contents as sex, violence, profanity doesn't seem to go well with kiddie art work.

It's kind of like watching teletobies chopping off each other's limb...

Modifié par colata, 13 juin 2011 - 11:30 .

[TEWR]

I just realized Hurlock emissaries in Origins wore things on their faces, though what they wore looked more like bandages than like some sort of weird S&M sex thing.

[MB123]

I wasn't entirely fond of the darkspawn's new look, but I still feel like it's an improvement. Being able to see part of the skull helped me picture them as some hellish human offspring. In Origins, they just felt like monotonous and generic blobs of purple that I had to pummel through to get to the more colorful enemies.

[TEWR]

Except Hurlocks in Origins weren't purple. They were pale.


The Genlock redesign I actually like. At least facially. Making them the size of a gorilla might not be a good thing. Now if they're the size of a dwarf but are hunched over, I might like that.


Ogres in Origins looked closer to the Qunari redesign than DA2 Ogres do (skin tone, structure, etc.).


Shrieks look more or less like the new elf design I think.

[Bail_Darilar]

IMO, the new designs are good, I like the fact they tried to distinguish them and give them their own look. The one thing they missed though which made me hate the darkspawn so much is that sound of evil laughter that they make sometimes when you encounter them in a fight combined with the evil smile they had which gave them a sense of pure malice, you really felt like you were fighting some evil and they had character to them. I believe keeping the majority of the new design would be a good idea but adding the small touches that elevated them beyond a mindless horde (even though thats what they are) is what they really need rather than a complete revert to their original look. On another note I believe the design for the emmissary was excellent as it game them  distinct character.

[Kilshrek]

The only thing is, so far as the codex can explain it, emissaries are merely the top alphas. So they all go through the same breeding and growing process, but are different individually.

They all come from a broodmother, makes sense there.
They all grow the same, makes sense there.
Some are smarter than others, makes sense there.
Smart ones become alpha hurlock, smarter ones become emissaries, still makes sense.

It doesn't make sense for emissaries to be born of a different broodmother, just so they can be special. And where did their knife ears come from? Unless they're the shriek emissaries, in which case they completely abandoned the shriek's original design, which also makes a very sad kind of sense.

Who cares about substance? Make it flashy.

[Hel]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


The Genlock redesign I actually like. At least facially. Making them the size of a gorilla might not be a good thing. Now if they're the size of a dwarf but are hunched over, I might like that.

In Legends the gorilla-sized genlock are only used for the more powerful variants, just like the hurlocks are giant-sized when they're tougher than the average hurlock. It's merely a design choice for the Flash game. I seriously doubt that it will carry over to the regular games.
 

Ogres in Origins looked closer to the Qunari redesign than DA2 Ogres do (skin tone, structure, etc.).

I don't see how the old ogres were more in line with the qunari redesigns than the new ogres are. Especially their skintone and facial bone structure were nothing alike. They did good on the ogre redesigns, in my opinion. 

Modifié par Helekanalaith, 16 juin 2011 - 04:56 .

[macrocarl]

About the redesign.......... I'm thinking I'd like BW to drop dark spawn altogether. I mean, hey, yeah the new design isn't as fugly and scaryawesome as the old one. I totally agree. But I'd like more demons, bad peoples and what have yews. The dark spawn were supposed to retreat way far deep into the earth or be pretty much wiped out and retreated, right? Unless we go deeper than Hawke did and happen to run into the last 20 or so, I'd like the Architect's promise/ Warden's thorough ass woopin' of the dark spawn to make them non-existent moving forward. Unless it's a talking one maybe. Other than that they can stay total skelitor so long as we don't see them ever again!

[Porenferser]

I support this!
The new design completely SUCKS!
The old one wasn't very originally either, but it was good.
The Ogre f.e. looked pretty well.
In DA2....well.
The Genlocks look like Sceletors brothers, the Ogres like mutated pigs and the Genlocks....oh wait, there aren't any.
The only thing that was improved were the emissarys (imO).

And I don't even want to think about how the Disciples and the Architect will look after beeing redesigned *shudder*

[Salaya]

20 pages already... sorry if I repeat things, but Im eager to give my opinion in this matter.

As for the intial topic: the new darkspawn are horrible Nor only because the looks, but also due to the weird animations. They are some kind of hiperactive bunch that moves with spasms. Those prominent teeth, like old, wrinkled skulls, look awfully ugly, in the bad sense.

I know old darkspawn werent original, but they were waaaaay better than those from DA2. As always say, its great that devs try to hear players complains, but when it comes to design, I believe that changes must be subtle. Efficient, if you take my meaning. Radical changes like the ones seen in DA2 only serve for controversial opinions... and utterly bad sales.

Maybe this is not evident, but design, art direction and ultimately graphics, are the elements that first come to player's attention. Whilst bad first impressions could be forgotten with great gameplay, the memory of that first bad feeling is not.

As for the other design changes, Im only going to say that Qunari are the only ones I like. And even with that, I think the change was unnecesary (at this level).

I specially dislike the new elven design ._. They are... well. Terrible.