933 réponses à ce sujet

[Toruscan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Think that's bad I guess you haven't seen the Darkspawn in DA3 yet then...

its horrofying i literaly crapped my pants i can sense the corruption with in it.Oh now its moving out of the screen help me ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[wright1978]

Liked DA2 Quanri
Dwarves, Humans seemed fine too.
Undecided on darkspwan, need to go back and compare them
Elves definitely were a problem in DA2. Can't complain about them changing from look from origins but it just didn't work. Nice middle ground somewhere in between surely.

[TEWR]

I think the elves just need their faces to be as well-designed as some of the elves in DA2 were, and maybe (as I'm undecided on this part) make their body structure not as thin.

I personally don't have a problem with their body structure, as it doesn't seem anorexic to me, but other people do.

[Oddeyee]

I do agree with the OP

In DAO I felt I didnt want to touch the darkspawn , I found them somewhat frightning No matter how much I play DA2 I cant feel anything over the way they look apart from worce.

I read somewhere they was changed to be more simple to be able to fit more on the screen at once but im not sure how true that is.

I did however enjoy the rest of the changes , quinari , elves , dwalfs. It was a risky move changing the way they look on a sequal though

[AloraKast]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

I want Darkspawn back the way they were. Now they're just comical. Well, comically bad.

I want Elves back the way they were. Now they look like they suffer from Down's Syndrome.

I want Qunari to stay the way they are, but still have some of them look like the DAO versions.

I want Dwarves back the way they were. Now they just look weird.

I want Humans back the way they were. The returning ones from DAO looked like they all got smashed in the face except for Flemeth(who I was just about to call Florrigan for some odd reason).

Damn it, I just want the DAO art style back. DA2's art style isn't "stylized". It just sucks.

Darkspawn yes, but keep the Genlocks and Hurlock Alpha design. Maybe tweak the Genlocks by experimenting with different colorations (gray or black or something). And the Ogres should also be tweaked to not have a mushed face and more purple/gray skin. No amalgam of beige and gray.

Elves no. The new design itself isn't the real problem, as there are many elves that look great with the new design. It's just how much work Bioware puts into the elves. But even if they made 98% good looking elves, some people would focus on the ugly ones and use that as evidence that the old design was superior. It's already happening. Despite all of the good looking ones, people focus more on the ugly ones, as if the elves should all be beautiful. Because a race is comprised of 100% beautiful people. What the people on here don't realize (or don't apply to the elves) is that beauty is subjective.

I'm also wondering what peoples' reactions would be if LotR did this design first. What then? Would it be acceptable? Would they want this design in favor of human ones if Bioware went that route? The outcries of it being Na'vi would also vanish.

Anyway, rant off. Also, could you not use Down's Syndrome like that? They don't actually look like people with Down's Syndrome. That's actually something I dislike seeing on here, as my little brother has Down Syndrome and I've seen it used in the wrong way. I admit you're not saying anything insulting about people with Down Syndrome, but still it's something that just rubs me the wrong way for some reason 

Qunari yes, and since Bioware said horned and hornless Kossith exist it's all good.

Dwarves didn't really change all that much aside from eye color. And that's the only real problem with the new dwarves. They have soulless eyes. If Bioware fixes that then everything will be fine. Sandal's the only exception, as his eye color was great.

I actually preferred the look of the humans in DA2. The only ones that looked horrible were Teagan and Alistair. But Isabela, Nathaniel, Cullen, Leliana, and whoever else looked great.

I have to say I agree with MOST of what Prince wrote.

The new darkspawn are just too clean looking for my tastes, they have flesh instead of the diseased, TAINTED look about them and are simply not scary at all. And it seems that the art department is continuing down this path with coming up with more and more silly and downright ridiculous looking darkspawn. It's becoming more and more difficult for me to even call them darkspawn as they are moving further and further away from the very well done art style that was first introduced to us. Even the Origins ogres are preferable to the art style in DA2. I'm sorry but this new darkspawn style is not for me, and what's even more important, I feel that it doesn't mesh very well with the lore... I want need the gross/scariness factor back, thank you.

Now, as for the elves, I know that TEWR you have stated repeatedly that you much prefer the new elven design over that of Origins because now the elves look like elves to you and not just human with pointy ears. Whereas I find the new elven design to be simply atrocious. Fist, they have been incredibly squished to the point of me wondering how they even manage to stay upright. The look is beyond anorexic (like someon pointed out earlier in the thread, not even size 0 but -1). And here is where the trouble starts with me trying to reconcile this new design with the lore. Aren't elves supposed to be these ethereal creatures much sough after because of their beauty? Yes, I do get that beauty is subjective, I can understand that. What  don't understand is taking these design changes to the extremes. If there was a need to enhance the changes between the different races of Thedas, then yes, by all means, make the elves slimmer, highlight the pointy ears that have been the elven trademark... but I find the end result we were presented with to be horrendous... especially taking into consideration that some elves that we have already met in Origins play a role in DA2... and the changes in those can be felt most disturbingly.

I know you are a big fan of Merrill in DA2. Me, not so much... and that is not merely due to the new art design (although I will admit that Merrill is one of the very few elves that is passable in visage - if only just barely - in my view). I don't know whether you ever played Origins as a Dalish Warden... but that was my very first playthrough, my introduction into the world of Thedas. And I fell in love with the Dalish, for they were presented as those mythical, wise creatures of legend, the true elves as we might  expect elves to be, living in harmony with the land around them. It was a wonderful experience even playing through the Dalish Elf Origin, exploring all the nooks and crannies and learning about their lore. That is what the Dalish have always been to me. And I also got to meet and hang out with Merrill in Origins a bit. Now, can you imagine my total surprise (and not in a positive way at all) when I hightail it to Sundermount in DA2 and discover... er... the DA2 version of my clan? I couldn't believe all the drastic changes and the visual presentation was only one of those rather unpleasant jarring effects I experienced. Consider the character of Merrill as she is presented to us in DA2 vs that of Origins... as well as keeping in mind the general view of the Dalish elves. I found DA2 Merrill to be this timid, bumbling creature, so unsure of herself... so unlike the etheral creatures possessing this other worldly calm that was my clan in Origins. And it wasn't just Merrill, also the DA2 Keeper was a shock to my system, so drastically different from my Keeper of Origins. I realize that there may be plausible explanations for Merrill's (and my Dalish clan's for that matter) attitudes and even bearing to be so much changed... but I suppose all these changes put together leave me to try and deny away the existence of the Dalish in DA2 universe. It's just too much for me...

I find that I Fenris is one other of those very few examples of DA2 elves that I can accept... even though I would much prefer the boy put some meat on them bones, as he's just too skinny for me. It's all about personal preferance, absolutely, but I do find it so immesely difficult to imagine that there are people out there that actually prefer the DA2 elven design over the Origins one BECAUSE in my view the changes in the elven art style were taken to the extremes. And I'm sorry, I know you don't see it, but I totally see the Na'vi influences in the new art design. Dammit, who let the art department was so much of Avatar, anyways? (please see that I wrote influences and not carbon copy)

I think my other painful experience with respect to the DA2 elves was meeting and seeing the DA2 Zevran. And it WAS rather painful, BECAUSE of the ghastly art design... Even though the voice actor was the same... well, I suppose THAT was a bit of salve for my wounds but still... oh, what have you done with my dear, dear Zevran? Damn you, BioWare! *shakes fist*

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate ALL of the design changes of DA2. I actually love the way the new Qunari look... even though when I initially saw the new designs, I was in much denial. I mean, HOW could you mess with my Sten? But I totally see the logic behind the new Qunari model... the only thing I don't understand is the explanation given for trying to reconcile the differences between DA2 Qunari and Origins Sten... but I guess, meh, whatever, is my reaction to that.

Now, I am curious as to why I see the logic behind the Qunari redesign but cannot understand for the life of me the elven redesign. I suppose the only thing that comes to mind is BECAUSE I started my Dragon Age journey as a Dalish Elf and I totally and without any inhibitions whatsoever immersed myself in that world... and so going by what we were presented with in Origins, the lore and I suppose my own personal preferences... the design changes in elves as they are now - taken to the extremes - make absolutely no sense to me. That, and I think they simply look horrible.

And whose bright idea was it to make DA2 elves NOT wear shoes? I mean, COME ON! What my poor Zevran is to do without his Antivan Boots I gifted him?

[alex90c]

I wish we could have just gotten a normal dalish companion in DA2. In DA:O, Merrill was perfectly fine - a curious person concerned for the well-being of her friends, quite intelligent (of course she wasn't a permanent companion). In DA2 that personality is completely butchered in to this retarded, naive, childish ****** who I just want to kick the stupid out of. Then In DA:A we got Velanna, who was just crazy. Witch Hunt comes along, and we get the quite likeable Ariane, but then rather than perhaps bringing her in to DA2 or making a character similar to that, we got ... Merrill.

FREAKING MERRILL.

She's definitely a love or hate character (I suppose she's DA2's Vanille) and I'm definitely on the 'hate' side since she's so idiotic.

[Alexander1136]

alex90c wrote...

She's definitely a love or hate character (I suppose she's DA2's Vanille) and I'm definitely on the 'hate' side since she's so idiotic.

not really its quite easy to ignore her..and fenris and well anyone really.

Back to the darkspawn. I Liked what they were doing in awakening and in that machinima special with cristof in terms of the darkspawn. the new ones remind me of puddies and the "improved graphics" make ps2's "aragorns quest" look good. please stop with all the *stupid spikey ***** in the designs, the champions armor and the darkspawn armor *look flat out ****ty.*

edit: due to censoring words varic says  in game.  (*stupid spikey motif)  ( *the armor's have an appearence that bothers my eyes and makes me angry)

Modifié par Alexander1136, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:58 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Do you guys know why the Darkspawn were redesigned?

The old darkspawn were, as Laidlaw puts it, Orcs and Goblins. They wanted to move away from that and give them their own unique look. They also wanted to give them a shared color scheme. Now that I understand I can accept it, except for the fact that Hurlocks look more like The Disciples now. But if they plan on redesigning them too then it's cool.

[Harid]

Orcs and goblins worked though.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Darkspawn are not why DA was called generic fantasy.

How about, I dunno, staying away from Dwarves, Elves, and Europe/Asia? Or at least put your own spin on them. The problem was that BIoware's spin on these things has outwardly, been done before. Which gives it the generic fantasy label.

[erynnar]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Do you guys know why the Darkspawn were redesigned?

The old darkspawn were, as Laidlaw puts it, Orcs and Goblins. They wanted to move away from that and give them their own unique look. They also wanted to give them a shared color scheme. Now that I understand I can accept it, except for the fact that Hurlocks look more like The Disciples now. But if they plan on redesigning them too then it's cool.

So now they are skeletor's progeny with puddy men? Skeletor also took a trip to the zoo and ****ed  a gorilla or two or three. The alpha Genlock looks like a LoTR troll, and the Alpha Hurlock looks like "The Mouth of Sauron" also from LoTR. They are all white or Kirkwall tan. And instead of being diseased look like beasts I need to tranq and put in the freak show of a carnie. If they were less "original" before, they are even less orginal now.

Just like everything else about DAO, let's just ****** all over it and claim it was horrible. I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it, of all the flaws DAO had, the darkspawn design really wasn't one of them.

[FieryDove]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Do you guys know why the Darkspawn were redesigned?

The old darkspawn were, as Laidlaw puts it, Orcs and Goblins. They wanted to move away from that and give them their own unique look. They also wanted to give them a shared color scheme. .

And sameness (maybe lower polys too?) for better graphical fidelity across all platforms.

What is power puddy/putti's that everyone keeps talking about? I have never watches power rangers. Are they an enemy that looks like the new DS? Cheerleaders for the power rangers? What?!

[Kilshrek]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Do you guys know why the Darkspawn were redesigned?

The old darkspawn were, as Laidlaw puts it, Orcs and Goblins. They wanted to move away from that and give them their own unique look. They also wanted to give them a shared color scheme. Now that I understand I can accept it, except for the fact that Hurlocks look more like The Disciples now. But if they plan on redesigning them too then it's cool.

A matter of perception, that, chap. Anyway the redesign is more a case of cutting off the nose to spite the face, I don't like this, so let's completely trash it, eh?

The justification for the new design is weak, at any rate, care to explain how all hurlocks have that handy coif, which takes a good deal of effort to make, believe you me, but can't string up a decent chestplate between 20 of them, and during a blight no less.

I on the other hand, don't understand the need for the redesign, and don't accept it. Redesigning everything, breaking the consistency of the previous game just because "some people" don't like it doesn't make much sense, and I say some people because it's plain to see that the redesign isn't a widely popular decision, like much of the game itself.

[TEWR]

I know you are a big fan of Merrill in DA2. Me, not so much... and that is not merely due to the new art design (although I will admit that Merrill is one of the very few elves that is passable in visage - if only just barely - in my view). I don't know whether you ever played Origins as a Dalish Warden... but that was my very first playthrough, my introduction into the world of Thedas. And I fell in love with the Dalish, for they were presented as those mythical, wise creatures of legend, the true elves as we might  expect elves to be, living in harmony with the land around them. It was a wonderful experience even playing through the Dalish Elf Origin, exploring all the nooks and crannies and learning about their lore. That is what the Dalish have always been to me. And I also got to meet and hang out with Merrill in Origins a bit. Now, can you imagine my total surprise (and not in a positive way at all) when I hightail it to Sundermount in DA2 and discover... er... the DA2 version of my clan? I couldn't believe all the drastic changes and the visual presentation was only one of those rather unpleasant jarring effects I experienced. Consider the character of Merrill as she is presented to us in DA2 vs that of Origins... as well as keeping in mind the general view of the Dalish elves. I found DA2 Merrill to be this timid, bumbling creature, so unsure of herself... so unlike the etheral creatures possessing this other worldly calm that was my clan in Origins. And it wasn't just Merrill, also the DA2 Keeper was a shock to my system, so drastically different from my Keeper of Origins. I realize that there may be plausible explanations for Merrill's (and my Dalish clan's for that matter) attitudes and even bearing to be so much changed... but I suppose all these changes put together leave me to try and deny away the existence of the Dalish in DA2 universe. It's just too much for me...

It's been some time since I've played the Dalish Elf Origin. However, Merrill is always confident around her clan, in both DAO and DA2. She pretty much tells Ilen that the clan needs to shove their fear of the old ways up their ass. That doesn't sound timid to me.

Now I know people will probably say, "Well what about the Keeper? She needed Hawke to be with her to even confront her!"

Well, then those people need to listen to her dialogue to the Keeper, where she's not beating around the bush. After Hawke speaks, she's upfront and blunt. And after killing the Varterral, she demands that the Keeper honor the deal they made (which the Keeper didn't. The deal was to give Merrill the tool, not Hawke)

Other people however, see her being timid in Kirkwall, a human city (with Alienage elves), as evidence of something wrong about her characterization. She lived with Dalish elves her whole life, and has only met one human prior to Hawke. That was Duncan.

She's unaccustomed to living in a human city. She's trying to get used to it. If I were to move to Italy right now (and God almighty do I want to), I wouldn't know where to go or how to act around my fellow Italians. It'd be a new experience for me.

...It also doesn't help that all the Italian words I learned in grade school were numbers and colors . And I went to a private school!

alex90c wrote...

I wish we could have just gotten a normal dalish companion in DA2. In DA:O, Merrill was perfectly fine - a curious person concerned for the well-being of her friends, quite intelligent (of course she wasn't a permanent companion). In DA2 that personality is completely butchered in to this retarded, naive, childish ****** who I just want to kick the stupid out of. Then In DA:A we got Velanna, who was just crazy. Witch Hunt comes along, and we get the quite likeable Ariane, but then rather than perhaps bringing her in to DA2 or making a character similar to that, we got ... Merrill.

FREAKING MERRILL.

She's definitely a love or hate character (I suppose she's DA2's Vanille) and I'm definitely on the 'hate' side since she's so idiotic.

I'd hardly call her the Vanille of DA2 (wasn't a fan of Vanille, though I did like the scene between her and Sazh when Sazh's Eidolon came into play).

And if you remember, in DAO the clan said they were going North. The Free Marches are towards the North.

I refer you to my post above as to why she's timid in Kirkwall.

And what is with people using retarded? To quote Peter Griffin, that really grinds my gears. I have a little brother with Down Syndrome, so it just rubs me the wrong way .

And show me how she's naive.



NOTE: People should know by now that I always defend Merrill vehemently

[AloraKast]

Perhaps it was the voice actress and how she came across that gave off the impression of a timid creature. But yes, I do find that even though she does stand up to her Keeper and clan mates... she does so in a way that a shy, timid creature would do should they find an idea that they feel truly and utterly passionate about and no matter that everyone around them tells them otherwise, they will pursue that idea relentlessly and stubbornly.

You know, I think Merrill as a character on her own is interesting and I found that some of the dialogues she has with companions are simply hilarious... Varric and Sebastian to be most memorable. But perhaps it's simply all those drastic changes that don't allow me to take Merrill at face value and enjoy her character without any inhibitions. Because her whole presentation in DA2 is so vastly different from the Merrill of Origins, that was the First of my clan; everything from visuals to attitude, her bearing and the voice presentation.

If there is one thing that bothers the heck out of me is messing around with pre-established characters, situations and settings that I feel strongly connected to; retconing if you will. And by that train of thought, you can well imagine my overall reaction to the DA2 Anders... *sigh* ah, but that is a discussion for another thread.

PS. Also, please note, am not bashing the voice actress, for I do enjoy the accent and can appreciate some aspects of the character, even through my inhibitions. Like I said, I think the character stands on its own and may even be an intriguing and rather hilarious presentation. I just find that, considering who this character is supposed to be, I cannot get past the changes and that is what is stopping me from fully appreciating and enjoying this character.

Note to BioWare for the future: quit retconning already established characters. You did a great job staying true to character with Oghren when inserting him in Awakenings, so I really don't understand the need to suddenly change and mess with characters such as Merrill and Anders.

Modifié par AloraKast, 23 juillet 2011 - 04:51 .

[Kilshrek]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And show me how she's naive.

She finds a mugging fascinating.

Plus several other moments that can be put down to more airhead than naive girl. But I do understand where the opposition comes from, she's nothing like the Merrill in DAO.

[TEWR]

Ok, she was naive at first.

I haven't seen her as naive at any other point in the game. Maybe a bit.... "oh Merrill" at some points (All That Remains comes to mind).

I have to say though that I thought people were usuing naive as a way to just call her stupid, but I was wrong. the definition of naive fits in with how I described her up top, where she's unaccustomed to other civilizations.

naive: Showing a lack of experience.

Around Act 3 though, she becomes well adjusted.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 23 juillet 2011 - 08:32 .

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ok, she was naive at first.

I haven't seen her as naive at any other point in the game. Maybe a bit.... "oh Merrill" at some points (All That Remains comes to mind).

I have to say though that I thought people were usuing naive as a way to just call her stupid, but I was wrong. the definition of naive fits in with how I described her up top, where she's unaccustomed to other civilizations.

naive: Showing a lack of experience.

Around Act 3 though, she becomes well adjusted.

I think my problem comes from the fact that she was retconned to hell like everything else brought over from DAO. There was no sign of the confident, Merrill in DAO. Just another...DAO must have sucked (when it didn't at all) so lets just change it again. I could understand her being naive about Shem culture (though as a keeper, and learning human elf history, she shouldn't be completely naive) but being so nervous when meeting Shem? The Merrill in DAO woudn't have shown her nervousness (even if she felt it).

I like Merrill, just seemed like they ripped out her spine and revamped her personality a little too much. My Dalish (icon) elf is a little offended. She was her clan mate after all. And they did make her to come out as an air head rather than just learning about Shem culture on the fly. A mix of Merrill from DAO and DA2  would have made more sense.

Edited to add: It just is one more sign of them running too far in the other direction from the wildly successful predeccessor. 

Modifié par erynnar, 23 juillet 2011 - 03:40 .

[FieryDove]

erynnar wrote...

I think my problem comes from the fact that she was retconned to hell like everything else brought over from DAO. There was no sign of the confident, Merrill in DAO. Just another...DAO must have sucked (when it didn't at all) so lets just change it again. I could understand her being naive about Shem culture (though as a keeper, and learning human elf history, she shouldn't be completely naive) but being so nervous when meeting Shem? The Merrill in DAO woudn't have shown her nervousness (even if she felt it).

I like Merrill, just seemed like they ripped out her spine and revamped her personality a little too much. My Dalish (icon) elf is a little offended. She was her clan mate after all. And they did make her to come out as an air head rather than just learning about Shem culture on the fly. A mix of Merrill from DAO and DA2  would have made more sense.

Edited to add: It just is one more sign of them running too far in the other direction from the wildly successful predeccessor. 

^thisx1000

Since my Dalish wardens were numerous and my favs it is jarring. She wasn't like this talking to Duncan who WAS a shem. But Water/Bridge.

Anders was even worse for me...at first I was OMG ruined, now...I just think of him as someone else. Different voice, look, writer...it all adds up to...a different npc. Sigh

[Heidenreich]

FieryDove wrote...

Anders was even worse for me...at first I was OMG ruined, now...I just think of him as someone else. Different voice, look, writer...it all adds up to...a different npc. Sigh

Going to go ahead and quote myself from another thread here.

Heidenreich wrote...

Old Anders-nose


and New Anders-nose!

They didn't change Anders at all. Or, at least they didn't change his face. His hair's different. Woop-te-do. His personality's exactly the same (go re-play Awakening.) only with justice mixed in... and his VO is different because Greg Ellis wasn't able to give the time to Anders because he was in the middle of making a movie at the time. His new writer co-conspirited with his old writer (WoG) to make sure she got the spirit of the character. Besides the fact that all the writing has to go through him for approval. Yanno, since he's the boss of that stuff.



*nods*.

[FieryDove]

Heidenreich wrote...

They didn't change Anders at all. Or, at least they didn't change his face. His hair's different. Woop-te-do. His personality's exactly the same (go re-play Awakening.) only with justice mixed in... and his VO is different because Greg Ellis wasn't able to give the time to Anders because he was in the middle of making a movie at the time. His new writer co-conspirited with his old writer (WoG) to make sure she got the spirit of the character. Besides the fact that all the writing has to go through him for approval. Yanno, since he's the boss of that stuff.

*nods*.

I don't need to go play awakening again, I still play it and DAO. If you are happy with the changes good for you. I suppose you think Zevran looks the same? Alistair? Merrill? Just nvm...

Also I know why the voice changed, we heard two different stories about it (One from the man himself) , as well as the writers.

We all have our opinions which is good or we wouldn't have much to talk about. But coming around saying *you* are wrong because I said so is bad form...also not very productive to discussions.

Edit: His hair is not different in my games. Mods ftw

Now...how about them darkspawn...any chance the genlocks can get a new hue or something...please? (DA3) or later dlc's or whatever...

Modifié par FieryDove, 24 juillet 2011 - 03:23 .

[erynnar]

FieryDove wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

They didn't change Anders at all. Or, at least they didn't change his face. His hair's different. Woop-te-do. His personality's exactly the same (go re-play Awakening.) only with justice mixed in... and his VO is different because Greg Ellis wasn't able to give the time to Anders because he was in the middle of making a movie at the time. His new writer co-conspirited with his old writer (WoG) to make sure she got the spirit of the character. Besides the fact that all the writing has to go through him for approval. Yanno, since he's the boss of that stuff.

*nods*.

I don't need to go play awakening again, I still play it and DAO. If you are happy with the changes good for you. I suppose you think Zevran looks the same? Alistair? Merrill? Just nvm...

Also I know why the voice changed, we heard two different stories about it (One from the man himself) , as well as the writers.

We all have our opinions which is good or we wouldn't have much to talk about. But coming around saying *you* are wrong because I said so is bad form...also not very productive to discussions.

Now...how about them darkspawn...any chance the genlocks can get a new hue or something...please? (DA3) or later dlc's or whatever...

As do I Firey, playing again in fact. It isn't Ander's looks so much as the Justice lobotomy. So, no he is never going to have that in my fanfic.

Oh and what is with the black eyebrows and beard scruff, instead of blond like in DAO? That is the only thing on his looks that bother me. Like he dyes his hair. So weird.

Modifié par erynnar, 23 juillet 2011 - 05:34 .

[TEWR]

erynnar wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ok, she was naive at first.

I haven't seen her as naive at any other point in the game. Maybe a bit.... "oh Merrill" at some points (All That Remains comes to mind).

I have to say though that I thought people were usuing naive as a way to just call her stupid, but I was wrong. the definition of naive fits in with how I described her up top, where she's unaccustomed to other civilizations.

naive: Showing a lack of experience.

Around Act 3 though, she becomes well adjusted.

I think my problem comes from the fact that she was retconned to hell like everything else brought over from DAO. There was no sign of the confident, Merrill in DAO. Just another...DAO must have sucked (when it didn't at all) so lets just change it again. I could understand her being naive about Shem culture (though as a keeper, and learning human elf history, she shouldn't be completely naive) but being so nervous when meeting Shem? The Merrill in DAO woudn't have shown her nervousness (even if she felt it).

I like Merrill, just seemed like they ripped out her spine and revamped her personality a little too much. My Dalish (icon) elf is a little offended. She was her clan mate after all. And they did make her to come out as an air head rather than just learning about Shem culture on the fly. A mix of Merrill from DAO and DA2  would have made more sense.

Edited to add: It just is one more sign of them running too far in the other direction from the wildly successful predeccessor. 

Did you try talking to her when you were in the forest? Because IIRC she says some things that sound confident (though given the circumstances of the Origin confidence is outweighed by fear). But if I'm wrong, then it doesn't bother me, as we were set on a very linear path in that Origin story, unlike the Human Noble or the Dwarf Noble. We never got to know her, and in that regard Origins did suck for that. It would've been nice if the Dalish Elf Origin had some sidequests and wasn't so linear.

And it's one thing to study human-elf relations. It's another to actually deal firsthand with humans, who have been prejudiced against your race for centuries. She doesn't want to risk drawing the ire of humans, Hawke specifically.

The Dalish Elf Origin didn't allow us to get to know many people very well, because we don't see them ever again (save for Tamlen). And that's no excuse for that. We should've gotten to know them, despite never seeing them again. What do we know about Marethari in DAO, aside from that she knows Duncan, thinks the Eluvians are too dangerous, and is a Keeper? Not much. What about Master Ilen? He's the clan's craftsman and he was given a bow by his father IIRC. That's a little bit of information on him. Paivel? He's the hahren who tells stories and gives a funeral poem for Tamlen. It's hard to draw much of a connection to the clan when we don't learn much about them.

[TEWR]

Heidenreich wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Anders was even worse for me...at first I was OMG ruined, now...I just think of him as someone else. Different voice, look, writer...it all adds up to...a different npc. Sigh

Going to go ahead and quote myself from another thread here.

Heidenreich wrote...

Old Anders-nose


and New Anders-nose!

They didn't change Anders at all. Or, at least they didn't change his face. His hair's different. Woop-te-do. His personality's exactly the same (go re-play Awakening.) only with justice mixed in... and his VO is different because Greg Ellis wasn't able to give the time to Anders because he was in the middle of making a movie at the time. His new writer co-conspirited with his old writer (WoG) to make sure she got the spirit of the character. Besides the fact that all the writing has to go through him for approval. Yanno, since he's the boss of that stuff.



*nods*.

That's what old Anders looked like?  


In my version of DA:O: Awakening for the PS3 he looked like this (this was the best image I could find)





his face was more rounded, and although DA2 Anders looked radically different than that, I was okay with the new look because it looked great. But Awakening Anders looks horrible for some reason.

[Sutekh]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The Dalish Elf Origin didn't allow us to get to know many people very well, because we don't see them ever again (save for Tamlen). And that's no excuse for that. We should've gotten to know them, despite never seeing them again. What do we know about Marethari in DAO, aside from that she knows Duncan, thinks the Eluvians are too dangerous, and is a Keeper? Not much. What about Master Ilen? He's the clan's craftsman and he was given a bow by his father IIRC. That's a little bit of information on him. Paivel? He's the hahren who tells stories and gives a funeral poem for Tamlen. It's hard to draw much of a connection to the clan when we don't learn much about them.

We get to know Ashalle (the Warden's guardian) a bit more in the epilogue. We know, for instance, that she's delighted that she might have an actual house, if the Warden asked for land for the Dalish, which, to me, was quite an important info not only about her, but about Dalish in general (meaning they're not against settling and giving up on the nomadic way of life). Idem for Marethari if the Warden dies. She talks Alistair down a bit, but seems happy with the gift of land to her people. We also hear about Paivel from Hahren Sarel, and about the Warden's family (father) from Varathorn.

I think that lack of connection was intentional, though, to reinforce the feeling you've been sent away from your clan, which is the real drama here. With them leaving North and out of reach, you've got no possible "home" anymore, unlike the other origins. Maybe I'm reading too much into this.

And on a whole different matter...

his face was more rounded, and although DA2 Anders looked radically different than that, I was okay with the new look because it looked great. But Awakening Anders looks horrible for some reason.

How dare you!



Frankly, I prefer PC Anders. I like his somewhat pointy face and that he's no male model. DA2 Anders looks even better, except for the black eyebrows / stubble. And when he got that smile...  (oh gods, I'm shallow).

Why did the PS3 model look so different? You can't have mods on the PS3, right? *is console illiterate*