45 réponses à ce sujet

[Ovietski]

                     I feel like compared to the other mage specializations that mage is rediculosly underpowered. You have to put four points into it before you even get overwhelm wich is every creatures favorite move. Also it's an awsome concept (shapeshifter) but it feels like the things you shapeshift into don't have enough skills. Why would you want to change into a dinky little spider with 2 skills when you can be a mage with 30+ spells? Any one else think this, if not why not?

[TheGreenLion]

It is a whimsical spec that the devs should have mulled over more thoroughly, because there's no reason to turn your useful mage into a critter losing sustainables and spells. Might be handy for mages (Overwhelm) but there's too many other useful ways to kill the few mages you encounter

[hOnOr]

In this case, "underpowered" is a euphemism for "completely sucky and useless". The last level should be a dragon (medium sized, not high) or drake ... then it would be cool.

[Cursek]

Is it really this bad? I was thinking of making a mage JUST for shapeshifting =/.



There's no magic that can compliment shaping? You'll lose your sustains etc?

[Ovietski]

I agree, a drake would have been way more awsome than a swarm of bugs, I mean come on! A swarm of bugs???

[TheGreenLion]

The swarm is uber fast if you like speeding about, and yes any sustains you have up disappear when ya shift. Overwhelm is the only ability that would be worth it...which is only one ability. But, if you like shapeshifters as an RP possibility, no one says ya can't do it.

[Sirmalek]

Yes I was also very disappointed to see the forms you could take and that "master" shifter merely turns you into a more powerful version of the same 3 forms... sad just sad.



Heck with drake I want to be a freakin dragon. I mean Master shapeshifter has to count for something and since this is based off a DnD like would it would be nice if you had the selection that shapeshifters there had.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

If sustained abilities worked and pets had a few more abilities, maybe. But they dont, so why turn your Swiss Army Cannon into Dog v1.5?

[sillymonkboy]

More like Dog v.0.5. Dog, with all his abilities, and a few smart tactics is awesome. Better than a lot of party members.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

True, but Dog cant turn into a Mage for heals, CC, damage, AoE...the forms need more abilities, MUCH shorter cooldowns and next to no cost to use. We WANT to be zipping into forms and out a lot. Crushign Prison, shift to bear, overwhelm the other mage. Pop out, mind Blast, pop into spider form and then web someone.



that being said, is it me or the forms just totally random? The Spider has next to no real symbolism in Ferelden and not exactly something your Mage would have experience with learing about. I still say letting us shift into spirits would be nice. Or maybe a selection of animal forms...



Hmmmm....can a shapeshifter have a roma...no...dont go there.

[doubledeviant]

Shapeshifter should have at least two forms per specialization level and/or the ability to learn new shapes from various NPCs/creatures. Werewolf and Golem are two obvious (and desirable) candidates for additional forms. As mentioned, buffs should function on shifted mages. It seems to me a waste that such simple changes weren't included to make the class more viable and fun.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 23 novembre 2009 - 02:21 .

[velmyn]

UnAffectedFiddle wrote...

True, but Dog cant turn into a Mage for heals, CC, damage, AoE...the forms need more abilities, MUCH shorter cooldowns and next to no cost to use. We WANT to be zipping into forms and out a lot. Crushign Prison, shift to bear, overwhelm the other mage. Pop out, mind Blast, pop into spider form and then web someone.

that being said, is it me or the forms just totally random? The Spider has next to no real symbolism in Ferelden and not exactly something your Mage would have experience with learing about. I still say letting us shift into spirits would be nice. Or maybe a selection of animal forms...

Hmmmm....can a shapeshifter have a roma...no...dont go there.

This...mostly. (the romance idea caused a brain-freeze)

Make the forms instant cast, give them better abilities...actually just make the forms instant cast, and I'll definitely start using shapeshifter.

[Svancara]

doubledeviant wrote...

Shapeshifter should have at least two forms per specialization level and/or the ability to learn new shapes from various NPCs/creatures. Werewolf and Golem are two obvious (and desirable) candidates for additional forms. As mentioned, buffs should function on shifted mages. It seems to me a waste that such simple changes weren't included to make the class more viable and fun.

I don't think werewolf and golem would compute with the way shapeshifting works in the dragon age lore.
Werewolf being a curse passed down to the generations and golems being dwarf made animatron with a dwarf soul.

Beasts the witches encounter in the wilds are the _only_ candidates for shapeshifting, so a dragon (form learned by Flemeth) should be an ultimate form, however I feel that this might/should only be reserved for epic NPC characters, seeing that some newbie freshman of the Wardens should not just learn how to transform into a Dragon during his relatively short travel, if a character like Flemeth, who has been around for ages, has mastered this.
It might be something reserved for an expansion which takes place years after the story of Origins, with a different character who has been around more than our newbie Warden avatar.

[HomelessDepot]

The mod that makes shifting instant is great, but still only makes them half-useful, instead of completely useless. It's fun from an RP perspective, however, not everything needs to be super-powered. Without the mod though... there's no way I'd be willing to put up with the long cast time.



-HD

[doubledeviant]

Svancara wrote...
I don't think werewolf and golem would compute with the way shapeshifting works in the dragon age lore.
Werewolf being a curse passed down to the generations and golems being dwarf made animatron with a dwarf soul.

If a Shapeshifter can take the form of a Giant Spider, complete with both poison and webbing, then it shouldn't be much more a stretch of the imagination to learn to shapeshift into a Werewolf, especially when you have plenty of live specimens to imitate.

As a mage, a master of magic, why should a magically-animated stone body be impossible for a Shapeshifter?

Seriously, a High Dragon is MUCH more unbelievable.  The difference in size alone makes it seem unlikely.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 23 novembre 2009 - 02:52 .

[Svancara]

I don't know, I can understand where you're coming from...it just sounds like a bit contradictory with the lore and the way the story unfolds.

The way Morrigan explains it to you when she elaborates on how you can learn shapeshifting, it seems a bit out of place if you want to put Werewolf and Golems into the shapeshifting abilities.

Werewolfs aren't actually animals, the Golems either. Shapeshifters seem to communicate on some levels with the animals in order to learn their appearance.

It's probably the same reason why shapeshifters can't transform their appearance into members of their own species.

And as I said before, the High dragon seems unbelievable also to be learned by our Warden, seeing Flemeth owns this ability, and she has been around for ages and has some additional abilities thanks to the Demon.

However I do believe that this could be an ability learned by very old Shapeshifters.

[Pimperlock]

Turning into a werewolf would be awesome beyond words. If Bioware implemented that, I'd be so, so happy. Heck, I'll even be satisfied with a mod.

!!! MAGE TOWER SPOILER:

The only time I enjoyed shapeshifting, was during the Fade section in the mage tower. Turning into a golem and wrecking havoc was awesome, as well as running around as the burning man, fireball-ing everyone. Funniest part of the game so far, in my opinion. The transformation was also instant, which made a huge difference. As of now, shapeshifting is, sadly, useless. Except if you have to go somewhere fast and can't use the map, that's the only time I ever use Insect Swarm.

[doubledeviant]

How about multiple shapeshifting skill trees, then? A natural tree (for animal/insect shapes), a Werewolf tree, and an unnatural tree (for Golem/Burning Man/etc). The Shapeshifter specialization would open a Shapeshifter school of spells (allowing you to pursue any or all of the skill trees).



Another thing: The Shapeshifter should have Mouse form! I enjoyed slinking about the Fade as a mouse.

[velmyn]

*Spoilers*



I agree that dragon form would be much more believable...if overpowered. (When hasn't a dragon form been OP)



You're shown a good example in-game. (Flemeth)

[doubledeviant]

velmyn wrote...

*Spoilers*

I agree that dragon form would be much more believable...if overpowered. (When hasn't a dragon form been OP)

You're shown a good example in-game. (Flemeth)

I don't understand why a gigantic, winged, fire-breathing reptile would be more believable than a wolf-man.

Flemeth isn't just a shapeshifter; she's an abomination, too.

Modifié par doubledeviant, 23 novembre 2009 - 03:27 .

[Cheiron the Centaur]

Shapeshifter can be useful, if used correctly. Shapeshifting and running into the middle of a healthy and heavily armed band of opponents is definitely not a good idea. But if you let your mage start with some AOE spells and other damage spells to weaken the opponents (until your mana runs out), then shapeshift and run in to finish them off, then it works quite well.

Sure, it's way too easy in this game to just brew a whole stack of lyrium potions to recharge your mana, but going without those potions is actually quite doable too if you can shapeshift.

And the reason why large shapes such as Dragons are unfeasible at the moment, is because of graphics issues... the same graphics issues that caused the delay in Shale and that resulted in Shale being so small. Apparently, larger shapes didn't fit through several doors (possibly with the exception of the doors in the Fade) and various tunnels.

Modifié par Cheiron the Centaur, 23 novembre 2009 - 03:29 .

[DiablosShadows]

yea shapeshifting is kinda weak in this game and Flemeth says its ancient magic -.- it should of been more powerful

[Svancara]

doubledeviant wrote...

velmyn wrote...

*Spoilers*

I agree that dragon form would be much more believable...if overpowered. (When hasn't a dragon form been OP)

You're shown a good example in-game. (Flemeth)

I don't understand why a gigantic, winged, fire-breathing reptile would be more believable than a wolf-man.

Flemeth isn't just a shapeshifter; she's an abomination, too.

Not to insult or flame but perhaps you aren't fully aware of what the Werewolf disease is actually about in this game, the same for the High Dragon form.

The way it is suggested is that Flemeth, wether it is through the powers granted by the demon at the time of her possession or not is unclear, has attained the skill to shapeshift into a High Dragon.
Unlike what some people believe this is not her true form, but that aside.

It seems like this form possibly can be aquired with the help of abomination, which if you're up to date with the way the lore works in the game, this _could_ be a form that can be taught by making a pact with a demon.
Much like the way the Blood Mage spec is unlocked and basically taught by, Mage Tower storywise, other Blood Mages who made deals with Demons.
So it can safely be assumed that it is within the power of the Devs to design, at some point, a certain subplot which could let your Shapeshifter learn the High Dragon form.

It's also possible that through the demonic powers granted to the Shapeshifter, the shapeshifter gains greater insights in expanding his or her abilities, which could allow the shapeshifter to study and learn the appearance of a High Dragon.

However as I previously commented, this could be a power too great for a newbie Warden to control.

The Werewolf form is a disease spread by an ancient curse, it's not really a "beast form", which leads to believe that Shapeshifting mages could not "learn" this ability unless should they get bitten by a Werewolf to inherit the curse.
Wether this disease can be controlled by more powerful mages is a matter of speculation, however this still not defines an actual "form" that can be learned by Shapeshifters.

So in the end, a High Dragon form is much more believable than a Werewolf form, lore-wise.

Modifié par Svancara, 23 novembre 2009 - 04:03 .

[doubledeviant]

I disagree.  The lore makes explicit mention that Zathrian's curse is NOT the only known instance or cause of lycanthropy.

[Svancara]

I never mentioned anything relating to Zathrian's curse.
The lore does state however, that it is generally assumed a form of possession (by demons) and besides this, a curse nonetheless.
Which by definition, does not make them a natural animal in the world of Ferelden.

Unless some sort of written confirmation is revealed (in-game or lorewise) that Werewolves stem from an ancient, natural born animal I don't think it's safe to assume they could be a form that can be learned by Shapeshifters.

Modifié par Svancara, 23 novembre 2009 - 04:18 .