45 réponses à ce sujet

[TheNecroFiend]

DiablosShadows wrote...

yea shapeshifting is kinda weak in this game and Flemeth says its ancient magic -.- it should of been more powerful

Nah, thats why it's ancient magic. Everyone saw how useless it was and tried to forget it. Shapeshifting is the 8-track of magic.

[velmyn]

Svancara wrote...

Unlike what some people believe this is not her true form, but that aside.

This is more or less a fact. Killing Flemeth doesn't net you the Dragonslayer achievement.

To the person who asked how this is more believable than a werewolf, I was talking mostly about the golem form...but that aside, shapeshifting seems to be oriented more towards transforming into things that actually exist in nature, in their natural form.

Dragons are part of Ferelden's 'natural' bestiary as far as I know: there doesn't seem to be any lore to suggest that they originate in some other realm such as, say, the fade. (I may be mistaken here, so feel free to correct me)

Werewolves, on the other hand, are caused by a disease...which causes them to become a HYBRID of two natural species. Of course, there's the fact that disease isn't the only source of lycanthropy.

However, if shapeshifters were about controllable lycanthropy, we should be seeing something similar to Diablo 2's druids instead:

1. Werespider
2. Werebear
3. Wereswarm? (Wereinsect?)

To which, a fourth, werewolf form would fit nicely. This isn't the case in Dragon Age.

[Svancara]

I concur with the above, with an addition of the fact that werewolves are a disease caused by possession (lesser or regular rage demons), which labels it in the end as a curse.

This has been assumed by many according to the lore but as stated before, there is no actual written confirmation on how the werewolves originated in Dragon Age

[Zilod]

the forms have not to be necessary "exotic" as a werefolf (curse/disease) or golem (construct)... they just have to be better and retain sustained spells... we see ingame some pretty powerfull animals (spider queen, big orange bear) so the stats/skills for various forms can be vetter than what we have atm



eventually even othe animals should be introduced... an high dragon of course is a nono but how about a baby drake or a (small) dragon? how about the prowlers(?) in the deep road? or a nug!!!!!



the class chould be improved even whitout using magical critters... just boost the stats and abilities of existing ones

[TarponCrest]

I can't believe that they have such a playable shifting system in the fade but a not so playable system for the specialization in the class. I am disappointed specially that there is not LOTSSS of shapes to learn if one will loose there magic when playing shifted then one should be able to have lots and lots and lots of choices as one advances in level so it is fun to play. I sure hope Bioware fixes this and makes it so that one can actually play as a shifter and not a mage that can show off in camp its shifting abilities that are not playable (at least not in a fun way).



At least there is lots of systems in place for shifting (the specialization and the fade system) so if Bioware does nothing I am sure the community will eventually do something good with it *thinks PRC team*.

[doubledeviant]

Are Corrupted Spiders and Bereskarns natural? If a Shapeshifter can assume a Tainted form, then why not a form twisted by demonic curse or possession? Why not a Werewolf or Wild Sylvan? The form is a physical pattern regardless of its origin; the demon rebuilds a physical being's form to suit its purposes. That is the point of possession: the incorporeal requires a corporeal form.

Also, why should the player be limited by Morrigan's teaching? The basic magic she teaches could be applied to achieve other types of shapeshifting.

Ultimately, a limitation to "natural" animals results in less possibilities and less fun.

To refine my previous suggestion:

How about multiple shapeshifting skill trees? A natural tree (for animal/insect shapes, including Mouse and Dragonling) and an unnatural tree (for Golem/Burning Man/Werewolf/Wild Sylvan/etc). The Shapeshifter specialization would open a Shapeshifter school of spells (allowing you to pursue any or all of the skill trees).

Modifié par doubledeviant, 23 novembre 2009 - 05:21 .

[Svancara]

I could agree with the above, but once again; this should be introduced in a matter that makes sense in accordance with the lore.

Besides the Shapeshifting mage does not assume the form of Bereskarns and a corrupted spider, but the non-tainted version I thought?

I've never actually studied this up close, as the shapeshifting abilities are not much used by my mage (if at all).

[TheNecroFiend]

Svancara wrote...
I've never actually studied this up close, as the shapeshifting abilities are not much used by my mage (if at all).

Shapeshifting would be more interesting if it wasn't a mage spec from a gameplay point of view. Because then your not giving up so much in order to use your animal forms limited abilities.

[doubledeviant]

Svancara wrote...
Besides the Shapeshifting mage does not assume the form of Bereskarns and a corrupted spider, but the non-tainted version I thought?

If I'm not mistaken, you gain the corrupted/Tainted forms when you get Master Shapeshifter.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I've been playing with this mod: http://social.bioware.com/project/822/



and with instant shapeshifting cast times + significantly shorter cooldowns I've really been enjoying morrigan's shapeshifting abilities.



Keep in mind however I'm playing Morrigan a bit unconventionally: I'm running on Nightmare and avoiding abusive spells like Cone of Cold or Forcefield: mostly focusing on Entropy spells, the hexes she has really complement my poisons (increased vulnerability to nature damage)

[Cheiron the Centaur]

Remember that DA:O is just the first part of the series. The original Neverwinter Nights didn't have that many choices either. Prestige classes were only added lateron in an expansion. I'm confident that, along with a possible increase of the level cap, future addons will also feature additional spells and talents for already existing specializations... including the shapeshifter.

[Altharas]

I'm gonna be honest here, and i'm sure most people will agree with me here. To say the least, Shapeshifting is underwhelming. I was expecting it to be one of the top specs in the game, the ability for the mage to become viable in all situations and add flavour to the traditional stand back + nuke.

I think the main problem is the roles of shifting and the issues with mana. Anything the shapeshifter can do, the mage can do better. Whether it be Spider for CC, Swarm for AoE or whatever. I think the instant shifting mod is definitly a step in the right direction, and while i have no problem with the concepts of the current forms, they definitly need some work to make them viable, but i doubt this can be done without either a) Making Shapeshifting OP or Changing the mana system to make mages less powerful, and thus a need to shift to carry on contributing to fights.

On a side note, i think a nice addition to the game would have been a 4th form, a drake or possibly something similar to the dragon found in the temple ruins in the brecillian forest. It's not big, but atleast it resembles a dragon. How would i suggest these be implemented? I'd say something similar to the way you unlock blood mage, when Morrigan sends you after Flemeth she offers you an advanced Shapeshift form to spare her, after which you could proceed to kill her or let her live as she intends (so there's no problems with having to backstab Morrigan just to access the end game shapeshifting).

Thoughts?

Modifié par Altharas, 23 novembre 2009 - 08:13 .

[ITSSEXYTIME]

I think one way to make shapeshifting more appealing is expanding on the base abilities of each form. Give the bear an Aoe stun, maybe make the spider's poison a bit more effective. Give the flying swarm a single target damaging ability (kind of like an "overwhelm" type ability)



The forms themselves aren't bad, they just need some more versatility. The bear could also due with being a bit more durable.

[UnAffectedFiddle]

I believe Morrigan does mention its about studying a creature. Shapeshifting seems to be a throwback to Spirits/Demons in general, where your shape is only limited to what you've learned to mimic. You do not become the creature, you merely mirror its physical form.



Or hell, do soemthing different, say a Shapeshifter willigly allows co-habitation of a spirit to achieve forms and is always skirting with disaster! Let Willpower govern the strength of the form and to show the Shapeshifter is only for those with incrediable mental fortitude!



I dont think Dragon should be in though, Flemeth is ancient and not even human. Smaller Drakes, sure but High Dragons and the like are essentially a step away from the Old Gods no?

[hexaligned]

They need to increase how the forms scale with spell power, by like a factor of 5. I was interested to see how a high level shifter would work with nothing but stat points going into magic, to buff the forms. Downloaded the respec mod, tried it out on my high level mage, even with a magic of 90 something it's completely worthless, forget underpowered, it is in fact, worthless (outside of rp reasons, though why you would want to rp as a Bearscarn I don't know)

Modifié par relhart, 24 novembre 2009 - 12:03 .

[Nouv Paris]

IMHO:



1) INSTANT CAST for changes



2) More abilities to use for each form. I don't want the ability to cast spells while shifted. That would completely negate your normal human form. However each form should have a big list of various abilities to choose from, because they are pathetic right now. The bear should get an AoE stun howl like War Dog. The spider needs melee attacks with built-in poison damage, etc.



3) REMOVE the Master Shapeshifter talent, and make the final form either a Drake or that small Dragon you fight in the Brecelian forest temple. Give us the Bearskarn & Corrupted Spider forms by default.



Shapeshifting is currently a joke when compared to the other specializations. Arcane Warriors **** all over Shapeshifters. At least makes the forms have valuable abilities since we can't cast spells or even use potions. Right now even the Rangers pets have more ablities than Shapeshifters. Really? REALLY?

[TarponCrest]

O.K. as a super fan of NWN 1 and a mega fan of shifters I decided to spend my day off messing around with the shifter specialization to learn more about what the people involved in creating it were thinking. My thought was that it is not really logical that so much effort would go to make a shifter in a super awesome game only to have it be a useless thing.



So I started to ask what governs the shapes and I found out that it is spellpower. It appears that the more rank one has in spellpower the higher the stats on the shapes are then with Master shapeshifter talent it becomes even more enhanced. Also enhancements from items do seem to merge which opens up the door to making the build to cater to a specific shape if one wanted to.



There still seems to be to few choices (so far) and not enough abilities powers when shifted but I can see how this could change as other expansions of the game get released. It would be nice if one could keep the buffs after shifting but I guess for balance it is ok so long as one truly specializes in shifting and has the other party members as support, now solo well... I am still playing around with this new lore (well new to me). I am mixing shifter with spirit healer since a good healer with over the top spell power is always good and the bonuses form the spirit healer work well with shifted forms (faster regeneration and will).



I think I may have been to quick to judge shifter due to my lack of lore about how it is coded. something tells me that as time passes and new material is available the true "magic" of this specialization will come to light (I hope at least). There is so much I like about DA I hope it will reach great heights like nwn1 has over time. I guess making it so there is only 3 shapes makes it easier to balance and adjust as it gets played by us fans. Anyway I thought I would share the part of spellpower being the key ability for shifter (for those that did not realize this like me).

[VKarasu]

velmyn wrote...
Make the forms instant cast, give them better abilities...actually just make the forms instant cast, and I'll definitely start using shapeshifter.

Well, you can always use mods like the one here who does exactly what you wish for. I think that's the great thing about this game, you can tailor it to your needs.

[Mobisto]

Shape shifting in its current form sucks. Just 1 point into arcane warrior would already be much better than the whole 4 points in shape shifting.



I think BioWare need to change some aspects of shape shifting:

- The 4th point into shape shifting allows INSTANT transformation. Keep the cooldown time long to avoid abuse.

- Spider shape is rather useless currently. Maybe change it into a form that does good ranged damage (centaur? gnome archer? )



It would make shape shifting a more viable, though expensive, tactic...





On a side note, does anyone try to do shape shifting + fully geared arcane warrior? I'm curious if the armor and attack stack on top of shape shifting bonus.

[Suhiira]

The ONLY use I can see for shapeshifting is if you have a two mage party.

One heals and occasionally nukes, the other could shapeshift and melee.



As it is the animation to shift is far to long, if you go into melee more then one-on-one you get creamed, you (of course) lose the ability to cast spells - and I've found you pretty much need your mage casting heals 90% of the tiime or you lose most battles.

[Suron]

Cheiron the Centaur wrote...

And the reason why large shapes such as Dragons are unfeasible at the moment, is because of graphics issues... the same graphics issues that caused the delay in Shale and that resulted in Shale being so small. Apparently, larger shapes didn't fit through several doors (possibly with the exception of the doors in the Fade) and various tunnels.

this.....

take the ranger spec and go all the way to master...and summon a bear..you'll see.

it's why I made my ranger only summon the wolf