59 réponses à ce sujet

[Sajuro]

Wait, if Kal-sharok doesn't have access to the surface then did Lord Renvil wade through darkspawn only to send some poor messenger back through the darkspawn to deliver a note to Hawke only to come back through the darkspawn to say he delivered it and die of the taint, poor messenger ;.;

[TEWR]

yea when Renvil first said he was going to Kal-Sharok I thought that was wrong because I thought they didn't have an entrance, but then I just said to myself "meh maybe I was wrong." and moved on.


Now that Rifneno confirmed they don't have an entrance, I'm wondering how the hell he got there. I'll assume that the Darkspawn weren't present in the Deep Roads over there because maybe the Architect's influence spread to that mountain range.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Rifneno wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

And who the hell thought it would be a good idea to make a dwarven city have no direct access to the surface? Especially in a mountain range where you could build fortifications against an outside invasion.

You have to realize: dwarves are incredibly stupid.  IIRC, in the old dwarven empire before the darkspawn cities with surface access like Orzamar were frowned upon.

To be honest, the dwarves were the ones just minding their own lives until the idiot hdurfacers of the Imperium decided to screw things up for them. However questionable things such caste system and creating golems may be, it is their stone given right to be stubborn and do whatever it takes to defend themselves against the magisters' legacy.

As for Kal-Sharok, I'd say there's a high probability of it being featured in a future game or expansion. I also have a feeling we might meet Lord Renvil there even if Harrowmont was crowned king, either as some sort of delegate of Orzammar or attempting to gather support if his uncle died (either through Bhelen or old age/poison).

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Harrowmont's a decent fellow but I wouldn't trust him to lead the combined forces of peanut butter and jelly to attack the village of Toast.

You deserve an internet.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

yea when Renvil first said he was going to Kal-Sharok I thought that was wrong because I thought they didn't have an entrance, but then I just said to myself "meh maybe I was wrong." and moved on.

Now that Rifneno confirmed they don't have an entrance, I'm wondering how the hell he got there. I'll assume that the Darkspawn weren't present in the Deep Roads over there because maybe the Architect's influence spread to that mountain range.

Perhaps Kal-Sharok created one to the surface?

[Dave of Canada]

Aren't the Kal-sharok dwarves opposed to traditionalists? I'd assume Harrowmont wouldn't be well received considering how Pyral Harrowmont was the advisor to Endrin (which generally pissed off Kal-sharok and vice versa).

Bhelen reaching a hand out to Kal-sharok would probably look better to them than the story of how he's killing off traditionalists who helped try and separate both cities.

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

yea when Renvil first said he was going to Kal-Sharok I thought that was wrong because I thought they didn't have an entrance, but then I just said to myself "meh maybe I was wrong." and moved on.


Now that Rifneno confirmed they don't have an entrance, I'm wondering how the hell he got there. I'll assume that the Darkspawn weren't present in the Deep Roads over there because maybe the Architect's influence spread to that mountain range.

I'll assume that guy who wrote that note to Hawke didn't do his research and created a plot inconsistancy.

[Dave of Canada]

Kal-sharok is capable of getting messages and have talks with Orzammar (including writing graffiti near Orzammar), it isn't a surprise to expect they've been able to send another message.

[TEWR]

LobselVith8 wrote...


You deserve an internet.

]

Perhaps Kal-Sharok created one to the surface?

That's what I thought back on page 1, but as it stands now it's a gaping plot inconsistancy.


So Bioware, comments?

[Kaiser Shepard]

Well, Endrin was the king under whom Orzammar restored contact with Kal-Sharok, and it seems like he's at least making an effort to build up a decent relationship between the two cities. I doubt the dwarves of Kal-Sharok would really care about the difference beween his traditionalist former advisor and his reformist younger son, as Orzammar still is Orzammar.

Also, on a semi-unrelated note, has it ever been explained by Gaider or one of the other writers how and/or why there were golems in the Primeval Thaig.

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...


You deserve an internet.

]

Perhaps Kal-Sharok created one to the surface?

That's what I thought back on page 1, but as it stands now it's a gaping plot inconsistancy.


So Bioware, comments?

I predict a "it's not a plot inconsistancy but I don't want to talk about it in a forum post" answer.

It's their default answer for inconsistancies. There's something the player doesn't know that answers everything, just wait and see.

[Foolsfolly]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Well, Endrin was the king under whom Orzammar restored contact with Kal-Sharok, and it seems like he's at least making an effort to build up a decent relationship between the two cities. I doubt the dwarves of Kal-Sharok would really care about the difference beween his traditionalist former advisor and his reformist younger son, as Orzammar still is Orzammar.

Also, on a semi-unrelated note, has it ever been explained by Gaider or one of the other writers how and/or why there were golems in the Primeval Thaig.

It's been a long while since my last DA2 run but aren't the Golems in the Deep Roads and not in the Primeval Thiag?

[TEWR]

no you actually fight a few golems inside the Primeval Thaig itself, after Bartrand betrays you.


EDIT: and if the Bioware staff said that they had created one as a means to survive and gain supplies from the surface and this was relayed to Endrin then I'd accept that. Honestly that's what I want the explanation to be. It's simple, it makes sense, and it covers their bases.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 mai 2011 - 04:26 .

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

no you actually fight a few golems inside the Primeval Thaig itself, after Bartrand betrays you.


EDIT: and if the Bioware staff said that they had created one as a means to survive and gain supplies from the surface and this was relayed to Endrin then I'd accept that. Honestly that's what I want the explanation to be. It's simple, it makes sense, and it covers their bases.

That's just plain retarded. We met Ciradin last game, it was a major plot point, it had two achievements tied to it. How can you forget that part...

...remembers Anders is in two different places at once....

BioWare's not good at maintaining timelines.

[TEWR]

I can't remember, did Caridin actually say he created the Anvil, or is this just something the Dwarves of Orzammar assumed?

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

no you actually fight a few golems inside the Primeval Thaig itself, after Bartrand betrays you.

Oghren's miracle baby being born in six months, Anders in Amaranthine and Kirkwall at the same time, and the golems in the primevil thaig... Doc Brown, DeLorean, time travel. Mystery solved.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Uhu, makes you wonder whether Caridin actually created the Anvil of the Void and invented the concept of creating golems himself, or if he merely was the one that retrieved the Anvil and/or method to create golems (essentially making him the Branka of his time).

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I can't remember, did Caridin actually say he created the Anvil, or is this just something the Dwarves of Orzammar assumed?

I'm positive he did. His regret over creating the anvil was a large part of that finish. He created it.

[TEWR]

welp, that rules out the Anvil being a naturally formed thing which would've been the only thing to explain the golems being present in the PT...

@Lob: lol Doc Brown.

and the whole Anders debacle could've been easily avoided if instead of it being one year after you landed in Kirkwall it happened 2 years after you landed. Would've worked much better.


Sometimes I wish I was working at Bioware so I could set these things straight and get rid of inconsistancies and flaws and whatnot

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I can't remember, did Caridin actually say he created the Anvil, or is this just something the Dwarves of Orzammar assumed?

Caridin says: "Though I made many things in my time, I rose to fame and earned my status based on a single item: the Anvil of the Void." The codex entry "Caridin's Journal" makes it more clear: "940, 45th day, 5th year of the reign of King Valtor: I have done it. The vision the ancestors gave me has come to fruition. Today a man sat up from my forge, a man of living stone and steel. I called him golem, for the legend of those great statues animated by the dead. They are our future and our salvation."

[TEWR]

hmmm... that doesn't actually seem to say or even imply he made the Anvil. I think it's just a natural formation considering how deadly lyrium is to even a dwarf.

For all we know the vision he received was actually a dream (which would be odd, but then again many DA things are odd so what's one more?) on how to make a golem on the Anvil.

So yea, Bioware needs to say the Anvil is a natural formation.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 mai 2011 - 04:49 .

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

welp, that rules out the Anvil being a naturally formed thing which would've been the only thing to explain the golems being present in the PT...

@Lob: lol Doc Brown.

and the whole Anders debacle could've been easily avoided if instead of it being one year after you landed in Kirkwall it happened 2 years after you landed. Would've worked much better.


Sometimes I wish I was working at Bioware so I could set these things straight and get rid of inconsistancies and flaws and whatnot

They can't maintain timelines. Look at Mass Effect too. That's a series where fans have constantly pointed out timeline/continuity problems, most of which stem from the fact that First Contact was 20-something years prior to the first game.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Foolsfolly wrote...
They can't maintain timelines. Look at Mass Effect too. That's a series where fans have constantly pointed out timeline/continuity problems, most of which stem from the fact that First Contact was 20-something years prior to the first game.

Yes Bioware is notorious with timelines.

[Foolsfolly]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

hmmm... that doesn't actually seem to say he made the Anvil. I think it's just a natural formation considering how deadly lyrium is to even a dwarf.

For all we know the vision he received was actually a dream (which would be odd, but then again many DA things are odd so what's one more?) on how to make a golem on the Anvil.

So yea, Bioware needs to say the Anvil is a natural formation.

No they don't. In fact if they did I'll shout BS until my lungs are sore.

That codex quoted above you has a possible answer:

"940, 45th day, 5th year of the reign of King Valtor: I have done it.
The vision the ancestors gave me has come to fruition. Today a man sat
up from my forge, a man of living stone and steel. I called him golem,
for the legend of those great statues animated by the dead. They are our
future and our salvation."


The Primeval Golems need a different model and they can just say they're demons possessing stone statues.

[TEWR]

If I could find an application to Bioware, I'd fill it out and submit it in a heartbeat. It shouldn't be that hard to maintain a timeline.

Of course, the application would more than likely be rejected and thrown in the trash.


edit: Ok, I'd accept that explanation too. But I don't think the Anvil can be a man-made thing. Not with all that lyrium that it uses as a sort of power source thingy.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 mai 2011 - 05:02 .

[Foolsfolly]

Why not? The dwarves are the lyrium craftsmen, they're highly resistant to lyrium. If anyone could build that it'd be the dwarves.