dwarves are resistant, but not immune. And I doubt copious amounts of the substance in its raw form could be handled safely and without fear.
Lord Renvil Harrowmont and Dwarven civil war.
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Vespasian 91
, mai 30 2011 03:04
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#52
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 07:26
Kaiser Shepard
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Foolsfolly wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
hmmm... that doesn't actually seem to say he made the Anvil. I think it's just a natural formation considering how deadly lyrium is to even a dwarf.
For all we know the vision he received was actually a dream (which would be odd, but then again many DA things are odd so what's one more?) on how to make a golem on the Anvil.
So yea, Bioware needs to say the Anvil is a natural formation.
No they don't. In fact if they did I'll shout BS until my lungs are sore.
That codex quoted above you has a possible answer:
"940, 45th day, 5th year of the reign of King Valtor: I have done it.
The vision the ancestors gave me has come to fruition. Today a man sat
up from my forge, a man of living stone and steel. I called him golem,
for the legend of those great statues animated by the dead. They are our
future and our salvation."
The Primeval Golems need a different model and they can just say they're demons possessing stone statues.
Well, it could have been argued that the dwarves have always used the same-ish model for those particular statues, which eventually found it's way into being used as golem bodies as well. However, in the Act II quest Fool's Gold, you eventually get a golem control rod for the golems in the 'upper' part of the Deep Roads, for which I can't find a solid explanation.
#53
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 07:33
jamirflyd2
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I could see a civil war but I have never supported Bhelen so I have not played this quest but I read it on the wikia like everything else lol! But I would help the guy I mean people say helping Bhelen become king is good for teh dwarf people but if your Dwarf Noble and you side with Harrowmont thier is a huge chance that you could become King/Queen upon his death and knowing the HOF they would be a King Henry or Queen Elizabeth 1!!!! In good or bad ways respectfully. But also don't forget in Awakening when you get Sigrun you get Kal Shork I think for the dwarves so either way they get a city/colony back to use!!!
#54
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 07:56
Kaiser Shepard
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Having taken a look at the map of Thedas, Kirkwall (and thus the nearby Thaig + Deep Roads section) isn't that far from Orzammar, Amaranthine/Kal'Hirol actually being farther in distance. The golems found in the upper part could thus be explained as being Caridin's (or alternatively, Hirol's), while this part of the Deep Roads didn't fall until sometime after Caridin created his golems (I presume around the time Kal'Hirol fell as well).
As for the golems in Primeval Thaig part... that's where things get complicated. Those could, for all we know, be the original creatures of legend (if not, the Profane/Rock Wraiths are probably it), although I wouldn't rule out that it be the effects of Red Lyrium there. If Red Lyrium is involved, they could be either conventional golems driven mad or statues brought alive by the Red Lyrium there, the stuff of legend.
In any case, we should try to get an explanation from Mr. Gaider for the presense of golems there. Nothing like a conclusive answer to end this speculating.
As for the golems in Primeval Thaig part... that's where things get complicated. Those could, for all we know, be the original creatures of legend (if not, the Profane/Rock Wraiths are probably it), although I wouldn't rule out that it be the effects of Red Lyrium there. If Red Lyrium is involved, they could be either conventional golems driven mad or statues brought alive by the Red Lyrium there, the stuff of legend.
In any case, we should try to get an explanation from Mr. Gaider for the presense of golems there. Nothing like a conclusive answer to end this speculating.
Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 31 mai 2011 - 07:57 .
#55
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 11:19
Vespasian 91
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jamirflyd2 wrote...
I could see a civil war but I have never supported Bhelen so I have not played this quest but I read it on the wikia like everything else lol! But I would help the guy I mean people say helping Bhelen become king is good for teh dwarf people but if your Dwarf Noble and you side with Harrowmont thier is a huge chance that you could become King/Queen upon his death and knowing the HOF they would be a King Henry or Queen Elizabeth 1!!!! In good or bad ways respectfully. But also don't forget in Awakening when you get Sigrun you get Kal Shork I think for the dwarves so either way they get a city/colony back to use!!!
Bhelen prove himself a reformer. Trade with the surface lands increases and caste restrictions are loosened. The casteless are permitted to take arms against the darkspawn in exchange for new freedoms. For the first time in generations, the line in the Deep Roads is pushed back, and a few thaigs are reclaimed.
You dont get any of that with Harrowmont in fact it suggest that they more then one is reclaimed. Also i would say that it was more the wardens that got Kal'Hirol back the dwarves just clear the deep roads between Orzammar and Kal'Hirol.
But anyway back to the topic
Endrin says in the DNO that "Denial of the traditions of our people does not qualify as a political technicality!" so im wondering if Kal Shork would get on better with Bhelen considering what hes doing for the dwarven people? but will Renvil stop that some how?
#56
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 02:01
LobselVith8
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Ok, I'd accept that explanation too. But I don't think the Anvil can be a man-made thing. Not with all that lyrium that it uses as a sort of power source thingy.
If the Anvil is destroyed, the dwarven smiths find the remnants and recreate the Anvil, but it doesn't work because they use a spirit from the Fade instead of a living person to enpower the golem.
#57
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 02:55
Rifneno
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[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
To be honest, the dwarves were the ones just minding their own lives until the idiot hdurfacers of the Imperium decided to screw things up for them. However questionable things such caste system and creating golems may be, it is their stone given right to be stubborn and do whatever it takes to defend themselves against the magisters' legacy.[/quote]
IF, and this is a very big if, IF that's the actual root of the darkspawn. The dwarves think the Chantry's theory about cursed magisters is just foolish. Here's the codex about darkspawn for a dwarven warden:
"The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage."
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Perhaps Kal-Sharok created one to the surface?[/quote]
Highly unlikely. "However, the few dwarves living there are said to be extremely reclusive and unwilling to re-establish contact with the rest of the world as well as being embittered towards Orzammar."
They're few in number and highly reclusive. One suggests an unlikeliness to be able to build a new tunnel all the way to the surface (I gather that like most of the old dwarven cities, they're very deep), the other suggests an unlikeliness to want one. Honestly I have to wonder how they were found at all. What we do know about them suggests they would have neither the resources nor the desire to attempt contact with the outside world. My best guess is that a Grey Warden group happened upon them but I don't exactly have much faith in that theory.
Something else to note is that the re-discovery of Kal-Sharok is considered recent by Orzammar. Therefor it's not outside the realm of possibility that they weren't the only lost city that wasn't actually lost. The whole "stone under Orlais" thing could well mean a third Dwarven city.
[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Well, Endrin was the king under whom Orzammar restored contact with Kal-Sharok, and it seems like he's at least making an effort to build up a decent relationship between the two cities. I doubt the dwarves of Kal-Sharok would really care about the difference beween his traditionalist former advisor and his reformist younger son, as Orzammar still is Orzammar.[/quote]
I don't recall Endrin's exact wording, but the impression I got was that he didn't give a damn about Kal-Sharok if they weren't going to play his games.
[quote]Also, on a semi-unrelated note, has it ever been explained by Gaider or one of the other writers how and/or why there were golems in the Primeval Thaig.[/quote]
No. At least not that I've seen, and I've seen people talk/ask about it plenty of times. I'd think someone would've mentioned it if he did.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
EDIT: and if the Bioware staff said that they had created one as a means to survive and gain supplies from the surface and this was relayed to Endrin then I'd accept that. Honestly that's what I want the explanation to be. It's simple, it makes sense, and it covers their bases.[/quote]
Logically, I don't see that being a decent option for them. It would take a tremendous effort to make a surface passage, especially since they're under a mountain. In the blighted wasteland known as the Anderfels. And once on the surface, no one "owes" them anything so there's no guarantee they'll get anything for their effort, even a viable trade route. In fact, when you consider what was going on when they were lost, they may have thought the rest of the world just as lost as the world thought them. They'd have to consider the possibility that a surface passage would only open a route for a darkspawn army that long since wiped out humans and elves to come and finish them off. Last but not least, they were lost centuries ago. They have to be self-sufficient if they're still around. So there's no absolute need for outside supplies.
[quote]Foolsfolly wrote...
BioWare's not good at maintaining timelines.
[/quote]
True story.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
edit: Ok, I'd accept that explanation too. But I don't think the Anvil can be a man-made thing. Not with all that lyrium that it uses as a sort of power source thingy.[/quote]
Same way we use electricity for... well, almost everything. Lightning's natural, but this computer is certainly manmade.
[quote]dwarves are resistant, but not immune. And I doubt copious amounts of the substance in its raw form could be handled safely and without fear.[/quote]
I was gonna write a long explanation, but I think I'm just going to say the word "Sandal" and walk away.
[quote]jamirflyd2 wrote...
But also don't forget in Awakening when you get Sigrun you get Kal Shork I think for the dwarves so either way they get a city/colony back to use!!![/quote]
That's Kal'Hirol. Different thaig altogether. "Kal" probably just means "the" or "great" or something in their language.
[quote]Rebellion99 wrote...
Bhelen prove himself a reformer. Trade with the surface lands increases and caste restrictions are loosened. The casteless are permitted to take arms against the darkspawn in exchange for new freedoms. For the first time in generations, the line in the Deep Roads is pushed back, and a few thaigs are reclaimed.[/quote]
Epilogues are written by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry!
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
If the Anvil is destroyed, the dwarven smiths find the remnants and recreate the Anvil, but it doesn't work because they use a spirit from the Fade instead of a living person to enpower the golem.[/quote]
Can we just go ahead and blame this on Justice?
To be honest, the dwarves were the ones just minding their own lives until the idiot hdurfacers of the Imperium decided to screw things up for them. However questionable things such caste system and creating golems may be, it is their stone given right to be stubborn and do whatever it takes to defend themselves against the magisters' legacy.[/quote]
IF, and this is a very big if, IF that's the actual root of the darkspawn. The dwarves think the Chantry's theory about cursed magisters is just foolish. Here's the codex about darkspawn for a dwarven warden:
"The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage."
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
Perhaps Kal-Sharok created one to the surface?[/quote]
Highly unlikely. "However, the few dwarves living there are said to be extremely reclusive and unwilling to re-establish contact with the rest of the world as well as being embittered towards Orzammar."
They're few in number and highly reclusive. One suggests an unlikeliness to be able to build a new tunnel all the way to the surface (I gather that like most of the old dwarven cities, they're very deep), the other suggests an unlikeliness to want one. Honestly I have to wonder how they were found at all. What we do know about them suggests they would have neither the resources nor the desire to attempt contact with the outside world. My best guess is that a Grey Warden group happened upon them but I don't exactly have much faith in that theory.
Something else to note is that the re-discovery of Kal-Sharok is considered recent by Orzammar. Therefor it's not outside the realm of possibility that they weren't the only lost city that wasn't actually lost. The whole "stone under Orlais" thing could well mean a third Dwarven city.
[quote]Kaiser Shepard wrote...
Well, Endrin was the king under whom Orzammar restored contact with Kal-Sharok, and it seems like he's at least making an effort to build up a decent relationship between the two cities. I doubt the dwarves of Kal-Sharok would really care about the difference beween his traditionalist former advisor and his reformist younger son, as Orzammar still is Orzammar.[/quote]
I don't recall Endrin's exact wording, but the impression I got was that he didn't give a damn about Kal-Sharok if they weren't going to play his games.
[quote]Also, on a semi-unrelated note, has it ever been explained by Gaider or one of the other writers how and/or why there were golems in the Primeval Thaig.[/quote]
No. At least not that I've seen, and I've seen people talk/ask about it plenty of times. I'd think someone would've mentioned it if he did.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
EDIT: and if the Bioware staff said that they had created one as a means to survive and gain supplies from the surface and this was relayed to Endrin then I'd accept that. Honestly that's what I want the explanation to be. It's simple, it makes sense, and it covers their bases.[/quote]
Logically, I don't see that being a decent option for them. It would take a tremendous effort to make a surface passage, especially since they're under a mountain. In the blighted wasteland known as the Anderfels. And once on the surface, no one "owes" them anything so there's no guarantee they'll get anything for their effort, even a viable trade route. In fact, when you consider what was going on when they were lost, they may have thought the rest of the world just as lost as the world thought them. They'd have to consider the possibility that a surface passage would only open a route for a darkspawn army that long since wiped out humans and elves to come and finish them off. Last but not least, they were lost centuries ago. They have to be self-sufficient if they're still around. So there's no absolute need for outside supplies.
[quote]Foolsfolly wrote...
BioWare's not good at maintaining timelines.
[/quote]
True story.
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
edit: Ok, I'd accept that explanation too. But I don't think the Anvil can be a man-made thing. Not with all that lyrium that it uses as a sort of power source thingy.[/quote]
Same way we use electricity for... well, almost everything. Lightning's natural, but this computer is certainly manmade.
[quote]dwarves are resistant, but not immune. And I doubt copious amounts of the substance in its raw form could be handled safely and without fear.[/quote]
I was gonna write a long explanation, but I think I'm just going to say the word "Sandal" and walk away.
[quote]jamirflyd2 wrote...
But also don't forget in Awakening when you get Sigrun you get Kal Shork I think for the dwarves so either way they get a city/colony back to use!!![/quote]
That's Kal'Hirol. Different thaig altogether. "Kal" probably just means "the" or "great" or something in their language.
[quote]Rebellion99 wrote...
Bhelen prove himself a reformer. Trade with the surface lands increases and caste restrictions are loosened. The casteless are permitted to take arms against the darkspawn in exchange for new freedoms. For the first time in generations, the line in the Deep Roads is pushed back, and a few thaigs are reclaimed.[/quote]
Epilogues are written by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry!
[quote]LobselVith8 wrote...
If the Anvil is destroyed, the dwarven smiths find the remnants and recreate the Anvil, but it doesn't work because they use a spirit from the Fade instead of a living person to enpower the golem.[/quote]
Can we just go ahead and blame this on Justice?
#58
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 03:11
TEWR
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hmmm.... what if the citizens of Kal-Sharok moved to another location within the Hunterhorn Mountain Range that could allow for a passage to the surface?
also, what if the Thaigs of Hormak and Gundaar weren't lost either like Orzammar thought? What if they are still alive and are maintaining contact with Kal-Sharok?
also, what if the Thaigs of Hormak and Gundaar weren't lost either like Orzammar thought? What if they are still alive and are maintaining contact with Kal-Sharok?
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 mai 2011 - 03:14 .
#59
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 09:17
Foolsfolly
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Epilogues are written by apostates seeking to spread subversion against the Chantry!
GODDAMNIT!
I swear on Andraste's cold ashes I will loose it if Bhelen turns into just a tyrant without his reformist ways. I hate that we can't trust epilogues anymore!
#60
Posté 31 mai 2011 - 10:01
TEWR
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If you talk to a casteless in Dust Town, he confirms that Bhelen gives more rights to the Casteless.
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 mai 2011 - 10:01 .
