In Exile wrote...
Why are you fixated on what other people beside me mean by terms I use? I've explained in detail what I mean about accesibility.
I am not speaking about a broad appeal for a product. I am only talking about a smooth introduction being part of a game designed for the core audience, to broaden that audience and to continue to design games for the same audience but with a bigger budget.
Because they both boil down to the exact same thing. Wasted resources. In an ideal world I might be inclined to agree with you. We don't live in an ideal world. All that time and effort spent on making user friendly tutorials and whatnot could be used on improving things I actually care about. I never use tutorials so from my perspective it would be a definitive waste.
You seem to be of the mind that I oppose them for some ideological reason. I don't. I just value other things as far more important as they are irrelevant to me. If you could add this without any development time whatsoever I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, that isn't possible.
In Exile wrote...
But why would you think it has to turn into a shooter or a button masher? That's so irrelevant to what I'm saying it makes me wonder whether or not you really want to have a discussion with me, or are just concerned with making some general point.
It was to illustrate the fact that what brought you into Knights of the Old Republic wasn't its actual accessibility as much as its perceived accessibility. It's just as easy to screw up a character build in that game as it is in Baldur's Gate. It also operates on the same dice rolls and rules which you so fiercely criticized. It wasn't that Baldur's Gate was too complex for you. It was that you perceived it to be and never gave the genre a real try until Knights of the Old Republic.
The same goes for The Witcher 2. People perceive it to be super accessible due to its welcoming looks and end up shocked when they get stomped during the first fight. This perceived accessibility is what sells copies. Not actual accessibility. A tutorial isn't going to sell any copies regardless of how well made it is. In fact, most gamers prefer outright skipping tutorial segments.
In Exile wrote...
You have no idea what sort of game I'd design. If the Witcher 2 followed my ideas, it would be the exact same game with a more detailed tutorial section for a 'causal' mode which would have involved slightly more powerful stats for Geralt compared to easy and a few walkthroughs via the tutorial tab for quests (e.g. teaching the player how to use an alchemy combination, like thunderbolt, rook and swallow, built a trap to catch some enemies, and describe a particular build path e.g training to swordmanship + the trap/bomb dmg upgrade).
I know that you'd waste valuable development time on frivolous things like tutorials. What was the biggest issue with Dragon Age II's development process? Think about that and come back to me.
In Exile wrote...
You're fixated on this issue of broad appeal, but that's so far removed from my point that it's essentially tangential to it.
Your point is
more. I get it but that more is always going to come with something else becoming less. That is what I do not agree with.
In Exile wrote...
But if you want a game that has a smooth introduction, you can look at Fallout 3 New Vegas. The initial section has optional and non-optional tutorials to teach the player every neccesary skill for the game, and then furthermore it has a detailed in-game description of what it means to enable hardcore mode.
Yet people endlessly
complained about getting owned for straying off the set path. As smooth as Fallout: New Vegas might be it still isn't smooth enough for everybody. Also, as much as I like Obsidian hardcore mode was exceedingly poorly designed. I'd rather have a well designed core than a bunch of slapped together toggles there to simulate challenge. See Nightmare.
In Exile wrote...
I'm not talking about streamlining. Like you said: my solution involves extra zots, not less.
I realize. Which is why I view it as hopelessly idealistic.
In Exile wrote...
You haven't played Mario Galaxy on the Wii.
Which also has far more rules than the original due to being a far more complicated game, yes.
Hopefully you can see the relationship between rules and complexity now. It's a necessary one.
Modifié par Marionetten, 31 mai 2011 - 03:08 .