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Patch 1.02/1.03 Gameplay Changes Discussion Thread


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#1
AreleX

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[Updated and editted by Luke Barrett]
Now that the patch (and a full list of changes) is out/will be out soon, I think a discussion regarding the pros and cons of them is in order, so people can not only have a quick reference list, but also talk about what they like/don't like.

List taken from Rob Bartel's post in the PS3 section.

GAMEPLAY
- In many fights, enemies now move less quickly at the start of combat. This slower initial pace makes tactical positioning more useful and important.
- If the force of an enemy attack interrupts a party member's current action, the party member now resumes the action once he or she has recovered. This means, for example, that party members who have been instructed to consume a health potion will now do so as soon as they are able, and do not need to be told to consume a health potion again if they are interrupted.
- Enemies are now much less likely to explode into body parts upon death.
- Attacks that hit a stealthed assassin are now more likely to disrupt stealth.
- Abilities that apply a silence effect now also cancel the target's current action in addition to preventing the target from using further abilities.
- When an enemy wakes from a sleep effect due to suffering damage, other status effects that were applied by the same ability that caused the sleep effect are no longer removed at the same time.
- Items that bear the property "100% of basic attack damage vs. enemies that attack in melee" no longer harm the user when equipped in conjunction with abilities like Blood Magic or Sacrificial Frenzy that reduce the user's health.
- The items known as Final Thought, Sataareth, Sundering, and Trepanner's Gift now have damage types that
match their elemental damage bonuses.
- The items known as Allure's Crook, Corrupted Acolyte's Staff, Defender of the Wall, Void's Hammer,
and Volcanic Shield can now only be equipped by the appropriate classes.
- The high dragon's fireballs no longer track moving targets.
- Pride demons can no longer be affected by their own Crushing Prison spells.
- The size of the area affected by an ability is now explicitly described as diameter or radius (usually diameter).
- When a party member's armor changes after consummating a romance, runes inscribed on his or her old armor now carry over to the new armor.
- Using the Maker's Sigh potion on an archer no longer alters inventory capacity.
- It is no longer possible to create more than one Elixir of Heroism.
- It is no longer possible to simultaneously enable sustained modes that are supposed to be mutually exclusive.
- In some cases, enemies would freeze while entering combat. This no longer occurs.
- In some cases, saw traps or spike traps would throw party members back even when the trap was not visible. This no longer occurs.
- The Special Deliveries chest can no longer get into a state where it contains items but cannot be opened.
- The storage chest is now present in the Hawke estate after completing the main campaign.
- If the Black Emporium premium content is installed, the mabari hound now follows his master more reliably.
- Various character-corruption issues now correct themselves automatically when you load your game.
- Various minor gameplay issues no longer occur.

BALANCE
NOTE: Patch 1.03 introduces significant changes to the overall balance of the game, improving the
strategic elements and making combat and class progression more engaging and enjoyable for players. Here is a detailed summary of the balance-related improvements:

General Combat
- Enemies’ basic attacks now apply much less force, which means that party members’ actions are not interrupted as frequently.
- The secondary attribute requirement for equipping armor or shields (constitution for warriors, willpower for mages, and cunning for rogues) is now significantly smaller.
- The rate at which rogues regenerate stamina while performing basic attacks has been significantly increased.
- Traps no longer inflict injuries.
- Enemies now gain more health as the game progresses.
- Enemy assassins now have less health.
- Lieutenant-rank and boss-rank enemies now have less health.
- Lieutenant-rank enemies can no longer lose more than 40% of their health from a single hit, and boss-rank enemies cannot lose more than 20%.
- Enemy commanders now occasionally throw stun grenades while encouraging their troops to concentrate attacks against a single party member. Previously, this behavior was limited to nightmare difficulty.
- Values for armor and elemental resistances now cannot exceed 95%. The game displays values of up to 100%, but characters now suffer 5% damage from an attack even if they show 100% resistance.
- The DISORIENT effect now applies a 50% penalty to enemy defense, as described in the codex, instead of only 25%.
- The Rune of Valiance now provides a +2 bonus to all attributes instead of a variable bonus that could rise as high as +7. As well, equipping and unequipping multiple pieces of armor that each bear a Rune of
Valiance no longer results in incorrect attribute scores.
- Items that improve the Blood Magic cost ratio now provide 0.25 mana per point of health instead of 1 mana.
- On hard and nightmare difficulties, status effects now persist on enemies for a slightly longer duration.
- On nightmare difficulty, enemies now inflict more damage than before.
- On nightmare difficulty, party members no longer suffer friendly-fire damage from warriors’ basic attacks.
- On nightmare difficulty, party members can no longer suffer more than 75% of their health in damage from a single friendly-fire attack.

Warrior Changes
- Aftershock upgrade to the Tremor talent now has a 30% chance to STAGGER normal enemies instead of 40%.
- Claymore upgrade to the Cleave talent now has a 10% chance to STAGGER normal enemies instead of 40%.
- Cleave talent now increases damage by 75% instead of 100%, while the cost has been increased from 20 stamina to 30 and cooldown from 20s to 25s.
- Shield Bash talent no longer automatically STAGGERS enemies within range of the attack who were not targeted directly. The primary target is still automatically STAGGERED, but other normal enemies within
range have a 40% chance to STAGGER.
- Shield Defense talent now increases threat generation by 100%.
- Sunder talent now has a 20% chance to STAGGER enemies on a critical hit instead of 50%. As well, the talent now only STAGGERS enemies if the warrior is wielding a two-handed weapon, as originally intended.
- The Berserker's Berserk talent now calculates the damage bonus differently, substantially increasing the ability's effectiveness.
- The Reaver's Blood Frenzy talent and Fenris's Veneer of Calm talent now provide a maximum bonus of +50% damage instead of +100%.

Rogue Changes
- Rogues now regain 1% of their stamina per hit with dual weapons or 2% per hit with a bow.
- The Ambush talent now functions as described.
- The Burst Shot talent now inflicts approximately 50% more damage (and 3x physical force instead of 2x).
- Brand talent now provides a 25% bonus to warriors' and mages' critical chance instead of 10%.
- Disorienting Shot upgrade to the Pinning Shot talent now always DISORIENTS the victim, regardless of whether the victim was pinned in place.
- The Inconspicuous talent now extends the reduced threat generation to other rogues and mages within a 10m diameter.
- The Lacerate talent now provides a 10% chance to re-apply the damage from any ability over 5s, instead of a chance to apply a fixed amount of damage.
- The Merciless Strike upgrade to the Explosive Strike talent now applies 300% damage vs. STAGGERED targets instead of 400%.
- The Pinning Shot talent now pins the victim for the correct duration.
- The Pinpoint Strikes talent now includes a 100% bonus to attack for the duration of the ability.
- The Assassin's Assassinate talent now has a 50s cooldown instead of 40s. The Annihilate upgrade now applies 200% damage vs. BRITTLE targets instead of 400%.
- The Shadow's Decoy talent and Sebastian's Guardian Angel talent now have a 45s cooldown instead of 30s.
- The Shadow's Disorienting Criticals talent now functions as described, and provides a 50% bonus to critical damage when obscured instead of 25%.
- The Shadow's Pinpoint Precision talent now provides a 50% bonus to critical damage instead of 25%.

Mage Changes
- Walking Bomb now inflicts damage equal to 50% of the victim's maximum health upon explosion, within a 4m radius, instead of 100%.
-  Arcane Wall upgrade to the Arcane Shield spell now continues to provide a 20% defense bonus to the mage, as described. Previously, the upgrade reduced the bonus to 15%. Other party members receive a 5% bonus.
- The Chain Reaction upgrade to the Chain Lightning spell now applies 300% damage vs. STAGGERED targets instead of 600%.
- Death Syphon spell now drains multiple corpses more quickly.
- Entropic Cloud spell now applies for 30s instead of 15s (against normal enemies), but the cost has been increased from 35 mana to 50 and the cooldown from 40s to 50s. The Death Cloud upgrade now applies damage every 2s instead of every 4s.
- Fireball and Firestorm spells now both inflict approximately 40% more damage and apply 3x elemental force instead of 2x.
- Misdirection Hex spell now applies for 15s instead of 10s (against normal enemies).
- Petrify spell now applies for 12s instead of 15s (against normal enemies).
- Sleep spell now applies for 15s instead of 10s (against normal enemies).
- Spirit Mastery skill now includes a 10% bonus to critical chance instead of 5%.
- The Spirit Strike upgrade to the Spirit Bolt spell now applies 300% damage vs. DISORIENTED targets instead of 200%.
- The Winter's Blast upgrade to the Winter's Grasp spell now notes that it affects nearby enemies.
- The Blood mage's Blood Magic spell and the spirit healer's Healing Aura spell are now mutually exclusive.
- The Blood mage's Blood Magic spell now reserves 70% of the mage's mana instead of 50%.
- The Blood mage's Blood Slave spell now enslaves the victim for a longer duration. As well, if the spell is ineffective, the victim's current action is now canceled. The Blood Spatter upgrade now inflicts damage
equal to 75% of the victim's maximum health upon explosion instead of 100%, within a 4m radius. As well, the spell description now displays this information.
- The Blood mage's Grave Robber spell now affects a 12m diameter instead of 6m in order to make the ability more useful.
- The Blood mage's One Foot In upgrade now inflicts 100% of the mage’s maximum health in damage instead of 10%.
- The Blood mage's Paralyzing Hemorrhage upgrade to the Hemorrhage spell now applies 500% damage vs. STAGGERED targets instead of 900%.
- The Force mage's Fist of the Maker spell now inflicts approximately 50% more damage. The Maker's Hammer upgrade now applies 600% damage vs. STAGGERED targets instead of 900%.
- The Force mage's Unshakable spell now provides a +50 bonus to fortitude instead of +100.
- The Spirit healer's Group Heal spell and Anders's Aid Allies spell now restore 25% of party members' health instead of 30%. When upgraded, Group Heal restores 40% of health instead of 50%.
- The Spirit healer's Healing Aura spell and Anders's Panacea spell now provide a +100 bonus to health regeneration instead of +50, and a +200 bonus when upgraded instead of +100. As well, the diameter of the spell has been increased from 6m to 10m, and from 8m to 15m when upgraded. In addition, a rare case
in which the spell previously provided an abnormally high rate of health regeneration no longer occurs.

Companion Specific Changes
- Anders's Swift Justice spell now reduces cooldowns to 90% of their normal duration instead of 80%.
- Aveline's Bodyguard talent no longer allows her to absorb the damage from Anders's Martyr spell.
- Aveline's Immovable talent now provides a stacking 8% bonus to damage resistance per hit instead of 2%.
- If Bethany or Carver rejoin the party near the end of the game, they now learn the Force Mage and Templar specializations, respectively. Existing save games from after the Deep Roads Expedition will not receive the benefit of this fix.
 

Modifié par AreleX, 30 mai 2011 - 05:10 .


#2
Luke Barrett

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I updated Rob's post a bit to put some better syntax and organization in to it in an attempt to make it look less overwhelming.

If anyone has any questions on any of the balance changes, feel free to ask and I will answer to the best of my ability and knowledge.

#3
Luke Barrett

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For the damage caps, bosses already had this 20% cap since the game launched. As for the lieutenants the change was intended to remove your ability to 1-hit creatures that were intended to be an important aspect of an encounter.

For the Berserk change, I believe it now calculates the bonus on base damage instead of applying it afterward so you get the added advantages of other bonuses and abilities.

Merrill's blood magic line is also 70%

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 30 mai 2011 - 04:42 .


#4
Luke Barrett

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Master Bandit wrote...

Could you confirm or decline if the "Skecthy quest" plot flag is fix in this patch? Because i have problems seeing it in the notes.


Afaik it is fixed and properly closed. Last I saw Sketchy still lingers around for no reason after it's turned in but aside from that it works fine and more importantly the flags correctly set for finishing it (this does not imply in anyway that it will ever be called, just that it could be if needed)

#5
Luke Barrett

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Guilebrush wrote...

The mage's Chain Reaction upgrade to the Chain Lightning spell now applies 300% damage vs. DISORIENTED targets instead of 600%.

Is this working as written in the change log? Not only is this a sizable nerf, but it completely changes the entire way to CCC with the ability. Just curious more than anything although this would leave just Crushing Prison I believe as a way for Companion Mages to CCC off a STAGGER? Big big big change if this actually behaves as per the changelog.


No that's just a typo (the disorient). I'll edit it.

Jack-Nader wrote...
Is haste fixed?

Haste still stacks with itself. However, the magic resist reducing the duration it lasts has been fixed.

Jack-Nader wrote...

Does that 75% max damage from friendly fire spells apply to the walking bomb explosion?

Yes. This number is based off your max hp though and does not consider injuries.

Jack-Nader wrote...
Xebenkeck could always be brittle + assassinated in 1 hit. Is she not of the boss class?

I don't believe so, no. There are technically two designations for 'boss' characters of which only one had this effect placed on it previously (for bosses like ARW, High Dragon...etc)

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 30 mai 2011 - 04:50 .


#6
Luke Barrett

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Guilebrush wrote...

Quick follow up question do the elemental immunity caps affect enemies as well or just the players? The syntax used seems to allude to caps only applying to players... I was kind of looking forward to no longer having to rage at the thought of random enemies gaining random senseless immunities just because you dialed the difficulty to nightmare. Why are you immune to fire City Guard pretender?! Why?!


Nope, just players. Enemies are still 100% immune to their specific type(s) on nightmare. A side note to this one: your resists will still show that they go up to 100% but I can assure you that they cap at 95.

#7
Luke Barrett

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It is actually a single target skill which propogates its effects to all enemies around the target. SO the duration and the like will be based on what target you cast it on initially. Since the effect eminates from the target it will follow them around and therefore persistantly affect any enemies near the target.

As for the cast time, it's still the same but I wouldn't say it's 5 whole seconds, feels more like 3.5 :)

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 30 mai 2011 - 05:33 .


#8
Luke Barrett

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Sabotin wrote...

- Abilities that apply a silence effect now also cancel the target's current action in addition to preventing the target from using further abilities.
This also works for interrupting assassins while they are in their stealthing animation, thus negating their invulnerability during it?


That seems unlikely since Assassins are godly but perhaps. I'll try to set up a test case for it to double check some time today (no promises though).

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 30 mai 2011 - 05:34 .


#9
Luke Barrett

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I believe they are both 50% when it's upgraded and it's just worded poorly. I'll double check.

#10
Luke Barrett

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Walking Bomb should still count as an ally attack and as such the 75% safety should still work.
The idea with the majority of the changes was to make the game less of an instant kill, always use the same strategy, slug fest and actually require you to play through an encounter and possibly try different tactics depending on the fight.

As for the Warrior nerfs, you have to remember that most people play on Normal (the % of people that start the game on Nightmare, let alone play the whole thing is less than 2.5) and Warriors, as was previously pointed out, roll through hordes of enemies like unstoppable Juggernauts.

While Rogues put out the highest DPS to a single target, the speed in which a Warrior can cull an entire group actually puts its damage potential much higher due to hitting multiple targets. I find it very strange that the Warrior nerfs were a shock... perhaps you guys just don't play your Warrior as well as I do ;)

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 30 mai 2011 - 07:26 .


#11
Luke Barrett

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All I can say is to play it before you make snap judgments. While we did severely change a few skills we also heavily changed the way force works and made nightmare harder on the whole (while making playing with more than 1 warrior/melee easier) - I think you'll find the game more challenging but in a fun way and not a /facepalm kind of way.

Obviously, we're always looking to improve; one thing I've taken from this is the fact that duelist is being called out quite a few times so I'll look in to that. I still think you guys are crazy not wanting Warriors to be nerfed but we'll let the whole thing settle for a bit and reconvene later, as it were, and see what you think overall.

#12
Luke Barrett

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The underlying theme is that we wanted to move away from formulaic skill 1 + skill 2 = win in every situation. We're looking for a more fluid and reactive system going forward - I know a lot of skills were heavily knee-capped and obviously the initial reaction is of the 'zomg my win button is b0rk' but once you get passed that shock I think you'll find the changes, overall, really work well with the combat and various encounters therein.

#13
Luke Barrett

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Specifically speaking about Rune of Valiance, it was never supposed to be that high in the first place - originally the stats worked differently, on a much higher scale. Eventually it was decided that the cap should be +2 to all attributes on any item and the rune just slipped through that - we were aware that it was like that since launch but we had a plan to do all of the balance changes (and the testing that went along with it) at the same time so it got delayed.

Simply put, it was a ridiculous amount of stats relative to any other thing in the game.

#14
Luke Barrett

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I sure am getting purposely misquoted a lot today ^_^


SuicidialBaby wrote...

Any word on the remaining platforms eta to Live patch status?


If there is, it will be mentioned in the tech forums. I don't have much information on it other than PS3 NA will be 'soon', PC will be 'very soon' and Mac will be 'in the next few weeks', relatively speaking B)

[those are not purposely vague answers, simply very rough estimates based on the last I had heard]

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 31 mai 2011 - 10:00 .


#15
Luke Barrett

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Firky wrote...

That's a really cool stat. Any chance you could say how many finish on NM? Do you even have that stat available?

I'm very slowly making my way through on NM, as a 2nd playthrough, and enjoying learning from this forum again. (Which I first discovered when I wanted tips to beat Firkraag, back in the day.) 


I could tell you how many people have nightmare on when they finish the game (<1%) but not how many actually stuck it on Nightmare through the whole thing without changing it. We should have had that achievement like ME2 does^_^

#16
Luke Barrett

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It was actually labeled the 'Take that, Arelex!' build but it couldn't get through cert, unfortunately. :pinched:

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 01 juin 2011 - 04:12 .


#17
Luke Barrett

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IanPolaris wrote...
Seems to me there were a lot more crucial and immediate things to fix.


Keep in mind that gameplay changes are independent of general bug fixes and do not alter time-frames of one another in any way.

If there are other things you think should be addressed for combat, feel free to bring them up and I'll see that someone takes a look at the idea.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 01 juin 2011 - 05:50 .


#18
Luke Barrett

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Basically, we felt it was too easy and was robbing you of an overall better enjoyment of combat. If you prefer to just instant kill every encounter that's completely different. We're aware that noone likes nerfs to things they love but we feel that in time you'll agree that the entire system works better overall.

Now, that's not to say that it's 100% complete and perfect. We're always looking for feedback and ways to improve - I've already got a few items that I've parsed from all the responses I've read.

#19
Luke Barrett

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Went for lunch and violence ensued! Let's try to keep this specifically focused on discussion of Gameplay changes and less about the verbal attacks.

All I can say is that your opinions are valid to be sure but I think they are skewed by relativity; if DA2 had launched in this way and we patched it in the opposite way (to the way vanilla was) you would have severe issues in a different way. I ask that you play with it for a playthrough before you make a definitive judgment so you have time to adjust.

#20
Peter Thomas

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rumination888 wrote...

The buff to enemy health the higher level you are is very minor. I doubt the average player would even notice the health change until they were over level 30.... which is impossible to reach at this point in time.


It was the rate of change that was adjusted. Basically player power was increasing much more rapidly than enemy health.

Here are some old vs new numbers:

Level - Old Health - New Health
1 - 19.2 - 19.2
5 - 69.12 - 80.64
10 - 157.76 - 206.72
15 - 272 - 384
20 - 399.36 - 593.92
25 - 563.2 - 870.4
30 - 752.64 - 1198.08
50 - 1744.32 - 2983.04

#21
Peter Thomas

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IanPolaris wrote...

Does this not serve to slow down combats then?  If enemy healty goes up and your ability to do damage goes down (because CCCs are harder), then it seems to me that this will drag out combats.

-Polaris


Generally enemy health goes up more as you level. If you're already killing them in only a few hits, this change won't really be noticeable. Higher ranked creatures will be noticeable, but then again, their health was halved, so it evens out.

The ability of the player to do damage is pretty close to the same. The main things that were tweaked were that the warrior was able to cause stagger much more than any other class could CCC, rogues hardly ever disoriented, and mages were too good at exploiting CCC effects (that in turn were too easy to create).


Hm... one thing that was in but I don't see in the patch notes is that Healing Aura should only give 1/4 benefit to the caster.

#22
Luke Barrett

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And by appeared he means before its item properties are cached in the game and not when you actually loot them - for the BE this is right away. But yes, pre-existing items will not be updated.

Since I have one on my character right now, Sataareth should have:
29 fire damage and +12% fire damage
also, Final Thought, as was previously mentioned by someone, deals Nature Damage.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 01 juin 2011 - 08:12 .


#23
Luke Barrett

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I believe this is because requirements are just a mathematical formula whereas properties are set when the item is 'created' by the game.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 01 juin 2011 - 08:15 .


#24
Peter Thomas

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Luke Barrett wrote...

I believe this is because requirements are just a mathematical formula whereas properties are set when the item is 'created' by the game.


Item property values are from a formula.

The fact that a particular item property is on the item is that it's a local copy that's saved with the game. It's important that it's done this way to prevent savegame corruption. This is also the reason that effects applied to characters have all their data stored in the effect itself, rather than referencing an external source. If the item is created new from the template (not already created in the world), then it will have the correct item properties.

Edit: removed overly complicated explanation.

Modifié par Peter Thomas, 01 juin 2011 - 08:26 .


#25
Luke Barrett

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Force, which is the DA2 factor for knockback progressively goes up as you get higher level. The higher difficulties will see a higher amount - on casual you had to get quite far before you started getting tossed around, on Nightmare it happened pretty much immediately.

It's a lot less 'bouncy' at lower levels now. If you played on casual you probably won't really notice.