407 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Luke Barrett wrote...

Went for lunch and violence ensued! Let's try to keep this specifically focused on discussion of Gameplay changes and less about the verbal attacks.

All I can say is that your opinions are valid to be sure but I think they are skewed by relativity; if DA2 had launched in this way and we patched it in the opposite way (to the way vanilla was) you would have severe issues in a different way. I ask that you play with it for a playthrough before you make a definitive judgment so you have time to adjust.

What about turning off the prologue combat at least?  That strikes me as "gameplay" enough and it's a real barrier (at least to me) for any future replays simply because I don't want to mess with it....again.  I would also suggest hopefully politely that without some story changes, there is little incentive to play it again unless you are JUST playing it tactically (which I know that some here do).  Personally I think it's a grind.  In short?  Why should I play the gain again just to try out your new patch when I'm arleady tired of the game?  I have to wonder even if you are completely correct if it's too little, too late (because not enough people will care).

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 01 juin 2011 - 07:12 .

[Ryzaki]

AreleX wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

So how are warriors? Is the nerf as bad as I feared or are they still as effective at killing things?

warrior will be my next stop on the nerf bat fun bus, i'll give you a damage report when i get there

 
Sweet. 

It'll be nice to know if a mod will be necessary. 

I love my warriors too much to have them nerfed. 

[TheAwesomologist]

rumination888 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Isn't it his gameplay with the latest patch that Ian is addressing, including how it simply seems to prolong the "waves" of enemies that many people have taken issue with? It's not like Ian is the only person who has an issue with the latest patch and how it changes gameplay for players.

/facepalm

Didn't Mike Laidlaw mention the waves of enemies in his "Thank You" thread? Maybe you should facepalm him, and everyone else who complained about it since Dragon Age 2 came out.

For the umpteenth time in this thread: this patch makes battles quicker, not longer. It doesn't prolong anything.

And judging by your previous posts, its pretty clear that you will continue to believe what you want to believe, regardless of reality.

Really? Because I'm looking at the Warrior nerfs and seeing battles taking longer. I may be wrong as I'm still waiting for the patch. I don't optimize as much as others in this thread but I've read the various guides and have the basics down. Stagger was a huge combo setup that I liked. It looks like it'll happen less. Maybe my worry will be over nothing, but I'm not looking forward to boring night fights in Lowtown taking even longer than they need to be.
I'm fine if the devs don't want the ARW fight to only take 40 secs, that should be fixed. But if the regular grind battles take too long then the patch makes the game worse for the non-optimization player.
Obviously need to play through it first, but the nerfs to at least the warrior looks like combat will take longer.

[tivadar27]

I haven't really gotten to try out this patch, but from what everyone is reporting, it *does* actually speed up the combats. Please, there's really no need to speculate. If you're actually playing and seeing increased battle time, then sure, complain, but no one's said that up till now. Can we at least in the meantime assume that the people who have reported quicker battles aren't dirty filthy liars?

[Kaylord]

rephrase, @Luke, specifically: Are the issues with the not-working horror upgrade and kickback upgrade on the to-do list or have they been fixed already and it is just not mentioned?

[Peter Thomas]

rumination888 wrote...

The buff to enemy health the higher level you are is very minor. I doubt the average player would even notice the health change until they were over level 30.... which is impossible to reach at this point in time.

It was the rate of change that was adjusted. Basically player power was increasing much more rapidly than enemy health.

Here are some old vs new numbers:

Level - Old Health - New Health
1 - 19.2 - 19.2
5 - 69.12 - 80.64
10 - 157.76 - 206.72
15 - 272 - 384
20 - 399.36 - 593.92
25 - 563.2 - 870.4
30 - 752.64 - 1198.08
50 - 1744.32 - 2983.04

[IanPolaris]

tivadar27 wrote...

I haven't really gotten to try out this patch, but from what everyone is reporting, it *does* actually speed up the combats. Please, there's really no need to speculate. If you're actually playing and seeing increased battle time, then sure, complain, but no one's said that up till now. Can we at least in the meantime assume that the people who have reported quicker battles aren't dirty filthy liars?

What reports?  I've heard one indepenant account that it might actually help speed things up IF you are an optimized rogue.  The raw math especially for mage and warrior Hawkes strongly suggests the reverse is true.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Peter Thomas wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

The buff to enemy health the higher level you are is very minor. I doubt the average player would even notice the health change until they were over level 30.... which is impossible to reach at this point in time.

It was the rate of change that was adjusted. Basically player power was increasing much more rapidly than enemy health.

Here are some old vs new numbers:

Level - Old Health - New Health
1 - 19.2 - 19.2
5 - 69.12 - 80.64
10 - 157.76 - 206.72
15 - 272 - 384
20 - 399.36 - 593.92
25 - 563.2 - 870.4
30 - 752.64 - 1198.08
50 - 1744.32 - 2983.04

Does this not serve to slow down combats then?  If enemy healty goes up and your ability to do damage goes down (because CCCs are harder), then it seems to me that this will drag out combats.

-Polaris

[TheAwesomologist]

tivadar27 wrote...

I haven't really gotten to try out this patch, but from what everyone is reporting, it *does* actually speed up the combats. Please, there's really no need to speculate. If you're actually playing and seeing increased battle time, then sure, complain, but no one's said that up till now. Can we at least in the meantime assume that the people who have reported quicker battles aren't dirty filthy liars?

As far as I've seen the patch is only out for the PS3 (funny considering their recent issues...). The only report I've seen of game play being faster is from ArielX and his Rogue build. This is the same guy (gal? sorry) who posts videos of taking out bosses in under a minute. It's impressive but I don't know if its at the level that many are playing at. So while it may be faster for his PS3 Rogue, I care more about my PC Warrior.

[Sabotin]

- Enemy assassins now have less health.
- Lieutenant-rank and boss-rank enemies now have less health.

Those are the ones that take time killing. If you hit for 1k, it doesn't matter if a low rank has 500 or 800 hp. Anyway we will see when the pc patch is out how it goes, currently we can just trust the words of console players.

[Jack-Nader]

I don't think its going to have any effect, Polaris.

1)General mobs have had their health increased. Lietenants/assassins etc have had their health decreased.
2)Party memembers no longer get staggered/knockdown as much. That's a sizeable DPS boost right there. Also, players are not going to need ANY points into constitution now or wear items that increase health. This further boosts DPS.
3)Haste is now fixed. Again, this is a massive DPS increase.
4)Rogue autoattacks are now significantly stronger with the shadow class.
5)Mages spirit bolt has had it's CCC damage increased. This is actually a sizeable damage boost when coupled with dishorientating criticals which dishorients on ever strike when obscured. Infact this combo absolutely shredded those twin revenants in act III pre patch. It's going to decimate them post patch.

I could go on but I think the point is made.

Modifié par Jack-Nader, 01 juin 2011 - 07:52 .

[IanPolaris]

Sabotin wrote...

- Enemy assassins now have less health.
- Lieutenant-rank and boss-rank enemies now have less health.

Those are the ones that take time killing. If you hit for 1k, it doesn't matter if a low rank has 500 or 800 hp. Anyway we will see when the pc patch is out how it goes, currently we can just trust the words of console players.

You are forgetting another part of the patch.  Those kind of enemies can only take a set percentage of damage EVER no matter how much you do.  That makes doing 1K of damage no better than doing so 300 or so....and so I don't think the lower health of these enemies actually matters.

-Polaris

[rumination888]

IanPolaris wrote...

Peter Thomas wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

The buff to enemy health the higher level you are is very minor. I doubt the average player would even notice the health change until they were over level 30.... which is impossible to reach at this point in time.

It was the rate of change that was adjusted. Basically player power was increasing much more rapidly than enemy health.

Here are some old vs new numbers:

Level - Old Health - New Health
1 - 19.2 - 19.2
5 - 69.12 - 80.64
10 - 157.76 - 206.72
15 - 272 - 384
20 - 399.36 - 593.92
25 - 563.2 - 870.4
30 - 752.64 - 1198.08
50 - 1744.32 - 2983.04

Does this not serve to slow down combats then?  If enemy healty goes up and your ability to do damage goes down (because CCCs are harder), then it seems to me that this will drag out combats.

-Polaris

The majority of damage against critters and normals is overkill. As I said, you won't notice the change until the very high levels when that +15% health increase turns into a +50% health increase and you'll actually need an extra hit to finish them off.

[Peter Thomas]

IanPolaris wrote...

Does this not serve to slow down combats then?  If enemy healty goes up and your ability to do damage goes down (because CCCs are harder), then it seems to me that this will drag out combats.

-Polaris

Generally enemy health goes up more as you level. If you're already killing them in only a few hits, this change won't really be noticeable. Higher ranked creatures will be noticeable, but then again, their health was halved, so it evens out.

The ability of the player to do damage is pretty close to the same. The main things that were tweaked were that the warrior was able to cause stagger much more than any other class could CCC, rogues hardly ever disoriented, and mages were too good at exploiting CCC effects (that in turn were too easy to create).


Hm... one thing that was in but I don't see in the patch notes is that Healing Aura should only give 1/4 benefit to the caster.

[IanPolaris]

Jack-Nader wrote...

I don't think its going to have any effect, Polaris.

1)General mobs have had their health increased. Lietenants/assassins etc have had their health decreased.

But LTs and Assassins can only take a small percentage of their health on any given hit ever so at best it's offsetting.

2)Party memembers no longer get staggered/knockdown as much. That's a sizeable DPS boost right there. Also, players are not going to need ANY points into constitution now or where items that increase health. This further boosts DPS.

You can already make yourself (at fairly low level) and your party mates immune or nearly immune from knockdown and staggering anyway, so I fail to see the real change.

3)Haste is now fixed. Again, this is a massive DPS increase.

Is it?  I didn't see that.  I also note that it only affects mage hawkes and templar hawkes IF this is so.

4)Rogue autoattacks are now significantly stronger with the shadow class.

That's nice IF you are a Rogue Hawke that's a shadow.  Guessing that's a fairly small percentage.

5)Mages spirit bolt has had it's CCC damage increased. This is actually a sizeable damage boost when coupled with dishorientating criticals which dishorients on ever strike when obscured. Infact this combo absolutely shredded those twin revenants in act III pre patch. It's going to decimate them post patch.

I could go on but I think the point is made.

Spirit is mostly a trap.  You are still better off concentrating on either Elemental or Primal near as I can tell, so no your point has not been made at least to my satisfaction.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Peter Thomas wrote...

Hm... one thing that was in but I don't see in the patch notes is that Healing Aura should only give 1/4 benefit to the caster.

Why?  What on earth is wrong with a butch Spirit Healer?

-Polaris

[mesmerizedish]

Butch?

Umm...

[chiccorocks]

- The items known as Final Thought, Sataareth, Sundering, and Trepanner's Gift now have damage types that
match their elemental damage bonuses.
 

i got the patch and loaded a late act 3 save, the description for sataareth still reads 29 fire damage & +8% physical damage. the description for final thought reads 48 physical damage, +33% nature, & +33% spirit damage. although when using the sataareth, i do not see white damage numbers, only yellow. is the no-change in the item description intentional or am i doing something wrong?

[Sabotin]

Perhaps it's not retroactive and you only see the change if you acquire the weapon after the patch? Or maybe it even requires a new game.

[mesmerizedish]

Unless they have super dev patch magic, item's property boxes don't update dynamically (which is silly, in my opinion; way too much save-caching in this game). So, you'd have to load a save from before Saaterath appeared in order for it to display correctly.

[Luke Barrett]

And by appeared he means before its item properties are cached in the game and not when you actually loot them - for the BE this is right away. But yes, pre-existing items will not be updated.

Since I have one on my character right now, Sataareth should have:
29 fire damage and +12% fire damage
also, Final Thought, as was previously mentioned by someone, deals Nature Damage.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 01 juin 2011 - 08:12 .

[chiccorocks]

hmmm... but the item description for the mantle of the champion now shows a lower requirement: 18. this is from the same save.

btw, thanks sabotin, i saw your earlier post and remembered i had to check this. i had some warrior ideas post-patch.

[chiccorocks]

chiccorocks wrote...

hmmm... but the item description for the mantle of the champion now shows a lower requirement: 18. this is from the same save.

btw, thanks sabotin, i saw your earlier post and remembered i had to check this. i had some warrior ideas post-patch.

i meant 18 CON.

[Luke Barrett]

I believe this is because requirements are just a mathematical formula whereas properties are set when the item is 'created' by the game.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 01 juin 2011 - 08:15 .