[quote]Darkhour wrote...
Clearly she already failed to dominate Shepard so going that route would be pointless. If she intended to murder Shepard after she'd killed her mother a direct attack would be the obvious means. [/quote]
Nothing is "clear" in this situation. Sometimes she
does dominate Shepard with her mental powers.
[quote]I'm the one arguing against this notion that he is the greatest at everything and can win any battle no matter the situation or the foe. Your side is the one promoting this demigod Shepard who can take on a Super Saiyan Asari without any weapons or armor.[/quote]
I am NOT saying that Shepard is the perfect warrior. I am saying that Shepard is a power house without weapons, assuming that he is without weapons. He's an N7. He's a spectre. He could take on a biotic "super saiyan" without weapons, and probably win. That's how fvcking good he is. He has the training. He has the instinct. It's been shown time and time again in the games. Morinth planned to over power his mind and crush his nervous system. Shepard, even unarmed, isn't going to take that lying down. He's not going to stand still while she starts throwing biotics at him. He probably has his omni tool set to incinerate as a precaution.
[quote]Shepard never gets to do anything. Morinth attacks and it's over. Throw pacts 270Ibs of force. So Shepard is hit by a 270 pound man freefalling horizontally at him. He's down. Since there are no cooldown she then proceeds to lift him. She grab her gun and shoots the pinata. There is no situation where Shepard wins. Deal with it.[/quote]
Throw has that force? Then why didn't Morinth die instantly when she smacked the window?
Hell, there's no guarantee that gun on the wall is anything more than an empty trophy, I mean, why would she even need a gun with the apparent god power's you're describing her as having.
[quote]I like how your side loves indulging this idea that they are both going to simultaneously attack each other. Morinth is the aggressor. Not Shepard. Shepard just sided with her. He isn't going to be the one to attack her. He doesn't have time to play with his omni-tool or get a quick adrenaline hit. You have to know you've lost this argument. I never understood how people can let their pride make such fools out of themselves.[/quote]
Shepard is hunting Morinth, not the other way around. He and Samara "lure" her like one might lure a wolf into a trap. She's still a wolf, and she still thinks she's in charge, but ultimately she is biting off more than she can chew. No pun intended. And omni tool weapons don't work how you think they do, with people pressing buttons, and going through menus. It would be pretty much instant.
This is not a matter of pride. Otherwise I wouldn't admit that Wrex and Zaeed trump Shepard. He's not a god. But he IS prepared, innovative, and a force to be reconned with in every situation. Maybe a matriarch could take an unarmed Shepard. Hell, Samara probably could. But Morinth is used to preying upon artists, muscians, bounty hunters, and all sorts of unsuspecting folk.
[quote]If Shepard attacked her in her sleep he'd undoubtable win too. So what? Joker could kill Shepard in his sleep. Any two bit merc with hand-to-hand training could take Morinth if she's sitting in their lap with her defenses down.
However, Morinth sitting on Shepard's lap is not the post-choice situtation.[/quote]
It is, however, the situation that I believe Shepard would attack from. Just as Morinth draws close to Shepard to lay the killing blow (and possibly failing, depending on para/rene levels), a Shepard that is hunting Morinth (even without the help of the Justicar) allows her to draw close for an opportune moment to strike first.
[quote]And you say the post-choice situation is what? Not exactly fair, you say? The situation doesn't present a fair fight? Really? REALLY!?! OMG alert the Scotland Yard!!! Somebody get a referee!!! **** no it isn't a fair fight. That is exactly what makes siding with Morinth such a completely idiotic choice. Now you're completely at her mercy. The mercy of a killer you've known for 5 minutes, who just got finished TRYING TO ****ING KILL YOU!!! And now, with humanity in the balance I ditch the one that I can trust to role the dice on a sociopath I meet 10 minutes ago? For ****s sake please tell me you've finally seen the light, brother.[/quote]
Cry more. When I said "not fair", I wasn't referring the the characters involved, but on YOUR argument that she wasn't standing near him. Whether intentional or not, you led me to believe that you were talking about her not being near him when she was either standing where She and Samara dueled, or sitting on his lap. Forgive me for assuming that the it was two of the three locations she moves to in that scene.
[quote]As I said before, she attacks and it's over. Shepard never gets to make a move. It's like a ME1 Adept surprise attacking a soldier... with no guns...and 8ft between them! Bam! Bam! Bam! Adept wins. [/quote]
You aren't listening. It is NOT enough to simply claim a victor by default. You keep saying "she attacks and it's over", without ever regarding WHO she would be attacking. Shepard. He ISN'T going to stand there like a tool. If he throws up a biotic barrier, then what? If he uses overload on her, then what? If she throws biotics at him, and he vanguard charges her while she's standing near the door, what then? The REASON I had them both attack at the same time, was to show how they BOTH have good reactions and back up plans (something that you refuse to acknowledge for Shepard). In the end though, 7/10 times, a "unarmed" Shepard wins, because he/she is never unarmed due to his/her class abilities. They would almost always give the unarmed N7 a even footing to the Asari. Add Shepard's training, intuition, and cyborg strength to that equation, and he's almost always equal or more powerful than she is. The best thing she could do is run, in which case he'd probably not find her again.
[quote]No, I'm saying Charge is Charge. Her Charge is slower because she has a billion health and that gives the player time to do extra damage. Shepards is faster, but relatively slow nonetheless, because he'd get shot up to near death before he got to his destination. It's mechanics. Making up some fabricated BS about hers being more powerful, but needing to charge is frivilous.[/quote]
You're something else. Her charge isn't SLOWER. She can jump several times in a few seconds. Even Shepard can't do that. Oh, but that's game play (even if it contradicts your argument). And her charge is more powerful, because she can CHARGE up her charge. Shepard can't do that.
Oh, but lemme guess, that's game play too right? Okay then.
a) That still doesn't explain how Morinth would be able to stop tech weapons, stealth, a Asari commando rivaling biotic, or adrenaline rush. Or a vanguard charge in close proximity (even 8 feet is extremely close for a charge).
Since it is apparently extremely unclear as to how powerful certain biotics are in the ME universe (and here I do not blame you or anyone in this thread, but Bioware for making biotic abilities rather vague), maybe we should agree that the deciding factor in these matters WILL be game play as it is the only subject that you AND I can look at and say is the last word? Hence, Vasir's charge is both faster and stronger than Shepard's, not as a flashy game play mechanic to make young children wide eyed, BUT because that's something she can ACTUALLY DO.
[quote]And why how exactly would he get his arm around her neck from 8 ft away?[/quote]
Adrenaline Rush, Vanguard Charge (we say Tela use this situation in a cutscene), or Cloak (though Morinth would probably not risk taking on a invisible foe).
[quote]It's an unwinnable situation. Shep cannot win naked. No, it isn't fair and that is precisely the point. He'd need a small arm to stand any chance at all. Most tech skills would require him to bring up the omni-tool, then push a button to initiate a program.[/quote]Unless I'm mistaken, they are activated (extremely easily) by extending your hand, and using your fingers to activate your omni tool attack. Similar to how biotics have to flex their muscles and direct their hands towards the target they want to spam, a tech tool would work the same way. Both cases of point and shoot.
[quote]Even if an adept Shep could muster his own attack hers would overpower his. There would be no stallmate like she had with Samara. Get it through your head. Legion has compiled the data. 100% consensus has been meet. In all 17,589,413 simulations Shepard-Commander died.[/quote]
Now you are being childish. I DID already say many times before that Adept Shepard would have a tough time taking on Morinth. However, it is neither impossible, nor improbable for an N7 to have exemplary biotics, and training in case of contact with strong Asari. This is not to say that Shep's biotics trump hers, but it is to say that he'd still have a damn good chance of beating him.
[quote]Fact: Shepard knows the reapers are coming.
Fact: It doesn't matter. They are still going to kick ass and take names.[/quote]
Fact. In ME3, Shepard will find a way to kill the Reapers. You can keep this quote for 2012 when the game comes out. Yes, the Reapers would kill and ravage, and it would be a tough fight. But Arrival was all about Shepard defying Harbinger by warning the galaxy. In the end he has the option of telling Harbinger that the destruction of the Alpha Relay is a warning. Warning = preparation = greater chance of victory. Morinth wasn't prepared for Shepard or Samara. She lost. She did some damage along the way, but she still lost.
(depending on how you play)
That's a fact.
[quote]Fact: Shepard knows that reaper artifacts can indoctrinate. He knows how it works.
Fact: His ass was still in the process of getting indoctrinated and because of this he was able to communicate with Harbinger via hallucination.[/quote]
Interesting. And where are you getting this second part?
[quote]Fact: Shepard knew all about Morinth.
Fact: He still had no chance in hell of surviving a sneak attack initiated by her with an 8ft gap between them and no weapons or armor.[/quote]
We have already established that, depending on class, Shepard has various degrees of armaments. Fact.
[quote]If my life is on the line it's my goddamn place. I don't give a rats ass if she had been hunting her since before the reapers came to sentience. She could be as pissed as she wants to be. Although, I got the impression she just wanted her "mistake" erased regardless of how it happened.[/quote]
That's nice. Too bad we're not playing a game about you. I would highly enjoy breaking into Morinth's apartment with a gun, and shooting her. But this is about Commander Shepard, so the world doesn't revolve around you.
[quote]Thane punched out mercs in armor too and he is no cyborg.[/quote]
Thane broke a man's unprotected neck, karate chopped another man's unprotected throat, shot another merc at close range, and then shot Nassana through the chest at close range. No real comparison.
[quote]A husk knocked Legion out cold and he's a damn robot.[/quote]
And are you an expert on Geth anatomy? To support my comment about Legion's strength, we have the knowledge that synthetics (and their body parts) are stronger than organics. To support your claim that Geth
shouldn't be knocked out with enough physical force we have...a cutscene of Shepard waking up Legion in the AI core...hmmmmm...
[quote]Kolyat, Shep and Garrus can take down armored krogan with a single pistol shot.[/quote]
Yeah, that is pretty weird. We can rationalize it by saying that, with the prohibition of weapons on the Citadel, kinetic barriers would be difficult to come by, but lets not. Let's just call them small errors for the sake of story telling.
[quote]Elias Kelham, Al-Jilani, random turians, a human worker on the citadel and Zaeed can apparently survive Shepard's super robo punches without helmets and most maintain consciousness to boot. Small wonders, eh?[/quote]
Come now, don't insult your own intelligence. It's pretty obvious that those punches weren't with the same force or viciousness. What good would knocking out Zaeed have done while a refinery was burning and mercs were looking for Shepard? Why knock out Jilani on public TV for being disrespectful to the galaxy? Punching her for humilation and effect is enough. Kolyat's punch was meant to get the gun out of his hand, not damage his relationship with this father two minutes after they finally reunited. On could argue that Kelham's punches were'n't even that hard, but that because of Shepard's strength, he started bleeding extremely. But lets not. Lets just say that Shepard's punch was to keep Kelham focused on the main goal of the scene: finding Koylat.
[quote]Not that any of that matters as Shepard would never get the opportunity to super punch Morinth anyway.[/quote]You still haven't given a satisfactory answer as to why punching her while she was on his lap, in front of him, or 8 ft away isn't acceptable if Shepard has the speed (via AR or, cloak, a biotic gauntlet [assuming Shepard knows that trick] or charge).
[quote]Hehe, pretend that we're talking about when she was on his lap... at least you're smart enough to know that you can't win this debate if the discussion says on topic. I'll give you that much credit.[/quote]
Still have yet to go off subject.
[quote]STOP! Now you're just being silly.
Ashley has special pistol powers in that scene allowing her to 1-shot a krogan battlemaster in full armor with shields (note: that couldn't take down a naked krogan). Shepard can knock a krogan to the ground with a rifle butt to the face... in ME1. I wish he'd do that to all the charging krogan instead of the 1- way ass kicking he normally receives if they get close. And how does this support your cyborg theories anyway? Besides, Ashley's magic pistol powers are more impressive.[/quote]
No, you stop. You aren't thinking the answers to these questions out for yourself. A KINETIC BARRIER can slow down and repel objects moving at fast speeds towards the body from a relative distance. Say two or three feet away from the body at least. Ashley walked right up to the Krogan, put the gun to his back, and pulled the trigger. By this point, the kinetic barrier was already bypassed by her hand (at which point it would be like shooting a shieldless target) or so close to the barrier that its was ineffective. Hell, Shepard had a shotgun pointed at Wrex's head at close range. That probably would have instantly penetrated the shield.
It is like me shooting you, while you're wearing a suit of metal. From 20 meters, my bullet would probably bounce of your suit. From a foot away though, the bullet's initial velocity would probably pierce your armor.
There's nothing magical about it. If you just
think about it, it makes perfect sense.
I'm willing to bet that Samara, those Project Mercs, Wrex, the Eclipes merc that Shep + Miri kill, etc etc all have kinetic barriers active. Problem is, against CQC they just aren't much use. THAT'S WHY THEY WEAR ARMOR.
Modifié par 100k, 02 juin 2011 - 03:13 .
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