14 réponses à ce sujet

[gauntz]

I posted this here rather than in the tech help subforum because I'm not sure whether I actually have a problem or not and because I felt this forum would be best for determining that, considering it seems the place for "theory crafting", mechanics and so forth.

At the moment I am doing a playthrough of Origins as a human warrior, at the moment I'm at the start of the A Paragon of Her Kind quest, helping Bhelen with the first task in the Aeducan Thaig. I've already finished the Circle quest, the Redcliffe quest and the Urn of Sacred Ashes, in addition to having done a few companion quests and some of the Denerim sidequests. I'm at lvl 14 at the moment. I'm also playing at the Hard difficulty, but until recently it's been a breeze (I was playing a dual weild warrior earlier.)

My Warden is specced as a Two Handed DPS warrior, with most of the 2h tree and the warrior filled out. I think my specializations are Berserker and Templar, but I felt pretty underwhelmed by Berserker so I havn't put anything in those yet (I'm using the Respecialization mod with the Raven frequently.) I've put almost all by stats in STR, I think it's around 60 but I also have 25 Willpower, about 5 extra points in Dexterity as well as a point or two in Constitution. I just got the Ageless sword, one of the best in the game I believe, and I'm wearing the Superior Dragonbone set. 

The problem is that I miss all the time, especially against opponents that matter. Really not fun seeing my autoattack+Two-Handed Sweep combo missing half the time. I read that this problem is innate to two handed weapons, but that Precise Striking remedies it somewhat on earlier levels and that a high strength fixes the problem later on. However, even now with like 60 STR, I still miss all the time. Recently fought some Proving teams with elite "knight-type" opponents as well as some elite bandits/mercenaries in Denerim, and felt meek as a kitten. Nearly half the strikes missing (maybe more like 30%) and even with Dragonbone Plate armour, my dex-poor warrior felt less survivable than my dexterity dagger rogue (another Warden I have.) Btw, I run with Precise Striking+Indomitable up, not using Powerful Swings at the moment because it feels like that makes me miss more (-attack penalty or something.) I get Morrigan to give Telekinetic Weapons and Haste.

I suppose the fact that the dwarven quests are harder/higher leveled than the other questlines has a part in this; but I'm lvl 14 and even as lvl 13 it was no problem taking the High Dragon. 

As for my companions; I have problems with them as well. Firstly Morrigan; I have a decent amount of spell power, like in the high 30's, but because of mana problems I've pumped her Willpower up as well, think it's just below 30 or something. With Tele Weapons and Haste alot of her mana is reserved, but she still just has like 200 mana total and it feels like after a single Crushing Prison and a Group Heal she gets completely empty. In comparison my old primal/entropy Morrigan seemed to never need a Mana Pot, even when healing AND I didn't give her as much Willpower as now. Most significantly, just now I experienced her somehow LOSING mana in combat, without being attacked or anything. This is what I suspect is a bug, I was in combat without actually fighting mobs (happens sometimes when you get to close but they don't engage) and saw her gradually losing willpower. I'm not very familiar with fatigue/sustained skills mechanics, but I don't think that's supposed to happen, especially as Leliana was using her Song of Valor (the regen song) at the time. 

As for Leliana, she is archer/bard/ranger spec with 34 dex, 20 str and the rest in cunning (like mid 30ish.) I run her with Aim and Song of Valor activated, cause Suppressing Fire takes away her entire stamina pool. Even with Marjolaine's Recurve and a decent archer hat, she deals less than 50 damage with most arrrows and seem to miss a ton as well. It's actually so bad that I recently had her in a "1v1" with a Thug/Mercenary Archer, a normal, generic archer mob, and she did less damage than him and missed more. I know the whole optimal range thing affects accuracy, but even in normal, medium range situations she misses alot. Is she supposed to be that weak, or do I have a ****ty spec?

To summarize; is a two-handed warrior supposed to miss alot even when he has insane strenght and precise striking? Is my Morrigan bugged, or is her mana supposed to disappear in two secs even with just Haste/Telekinetic active, and even slowly tick away in combat when she casts no spells? Is Leliana just a ****ty archer?

[lionalio87]

Nothing seems to be bug here. All the things you describe here seems to be normal. Just notice something:
- The chance of a successful attack of your character depends on how many attack point you have. The higher it is the more possibility you get to hit the target. To increase the attack point, boost your dexterity or use some items that provides attack points.
- For Morrigan, if you let her attack freely, she likely use her spell frequently, unless you tell her not to do so. The more fatigue she has, the more mana she consumes per each spell.
- If you miss the enemy, that doesn't mean your archer doesn't work well, her or his enemy have the defensive points as well, especially rogue enemies. So if you are likely to miss your attack, maybe you don't pass the defensive check, or you are affected by some effect that reduce your efficiency in combat (spell, poison, wound, etc...)

[gandanlin]

I have noticed a similar issue with missing, but I don't think it is a bug. Some opponents are naturally more dodgy (harder to hit) than others.

With Morrigan, maybe it would help to use a tactics slot to feed her lyrium in combat? Another possibility is with one of the mage talents, can't remember which one, that offsets damage by sapping mana reserves. I stopped using that one completely.

Leliana has low stamina at the best of times. Lethality is a good talent for her, because it ups her crit. chance by 10%. Song of Valor ups it even more.

[catofnine]

Gauntz, just curious on your main's stat sheet what are your +hit and attack values?

re: Leliana--did you take the lethality talent with her? Archer in general is kind of bleh until you get their late level talents such as Arrow of Slaying, master archer etc.   Late bloomers, but they can hit like a truck if built right.

To ameliorate your 2hdr's misses you could have Leliana use Song of Courage instead, and set tactics to run Song of Valor (or manually switch to it) when you or Morrigan hits low mana/stamina. Mage's spell Heroic Offense also grants you +attack as well.

Morrigan's mana issues...you either be more selective about what sustained abilities you're running or since you've cleared Circle Tower you can buy an endless supply of lyrium dust from the quartermaster there and convert those to potions.  Sorry can't be more help here since I normally run Wynne as my heals/buffs/cc.  Does your Morrigan have Rejuvenate or Mass Rejuv?

Modifié par catofnine, 01 juin 2011 - 12:23 .

[gauntz]

I'm not sure where my +hit stats are, but my attack value is 87 (+15 from buffs I guess= 102.) Leliana's is 72+26=98 btw.

I did indeed take lethality. Her stamina is okay now that I don't use suppressing fire.

I'm considering using Song of Courage most of the time rather than Valor, because my warrior has tons of stamina from Superior Dragonbone Plate set, and Leliana seems to have enough of a stamina pool for scattershot and pinning shot anyhow.

Regarding Morrigan's mana issues; I've never had her use more than Haste and Telekinetic Weapons, I didn't think that running with just two sustained skills would have such a steep price. I got some advice from someone else though, who says that Haste drains 3 mana per sec in combat (though the tooltip just says it reduces mana regen by 10.) That kind of explains Morrigan's mana disappearing while doing nothing, but I would still think that Song of Valor would negate that effect.

Anyhow I was also told that Haste is really bugged; I already knew that Momentum+Haste (attack speed increasing over 50% I think) made weird effects, but apparently Haste is also bugged with Archers so it might contribute to making Leliana weaker. Therefore I might just respec Morrigan to a more lorefriendly Entropy/Spirit/Shapeshifter with just 1 point in heal, and hope that will fix her newfound mana issues. I'm hiping Miasma/Death Hex etc will contribute to other party member's dps like sustainables do.

EDIT: I'm using the mod Combat Tweaks which is supposed to fix a lot of bugs and smoothen DAO combat, however I'm still going to assume the bugs I described are in effect so I'll act as I said unless I get oppossing opinions.

EDIT2: If the haste-ranged attack speed bug still isn't fixed in patch 1.04, I think my Combat Tweaks has fixed it because I notice a visible increase in attack speed when Leliana is hasted as opposed to when she's not.

Modifié par gauntz, 01 juin 2011 - 03:25 .

[sami jo]

Morrigan may also be being hit by mana drain from enemy mages. Also, read the descriptions on the sustained spells carefully, some of them continue to drain mana when party members are injured or during other combat activities.

The special abilities, particularly for rogues, take a crazy amount of stamina. Heavier armor will also eat away at the stamina pool. Light armor is a good thing for rogues, particularly if they are spec'd out as archers.

As for not being able to hit anything, it is a dexterity issue. I tend to spread points pretty evenly between strength and dex for 2H and DW warriors. Otherwise they can't hit anything. There are threads on effective builds for each character/class in that forum with extensive pros and cons for each.

[gandanlin]

I think I meant to say Song of Courage earlier. My error.

[TheBigMatt90]

Str boosts attack as well as dex, Ageless isnt perticularly good, if you have Warden's keep get starfang one of the best 2handers, Chasind Greatmaul is the best (imo). You should go Champion spec, there is a sustained (Rally) that boosts your attack/def. go for it.
the Superior Dragonbone plate is lame, mail with Evon's chest is much better for a 2hander, or Cailens (RtO) or Warden Commander (WardKeep). Or Knight Commanders Plate (for 40% spell resist) and make your own set around that.

Haste constantly drains mana at a rapid rate, which is why morrigan is losing mana. 30 is very low spellpower, you need to gear her better.

Leliana needs to be running Song of Courage, will make here much much more powerful.
http://dragonage.wik...icient_Approach

Modifié par TheBigMatt90, 01 juin 2011 - 11:37 .

[HolyWarrior21]

2h warriors benefit more from the champion spec than the beserker one. Rally+Motivate will fix ur attack problems. Motivate is unlocked at lvl 15 so your nearly there. Beserker sounds good but all it does is drain ur stamina, its not necessarily a "useless" spec, but it doesn't provide enough bonuses in my opinion to justify the spec point. Reaver is lethal as a 2h, but only when you have blood frenzy active, will give you some decent boosts to your damage. Devour is bugged though, so beware. Only occasionally works I find the templar/champ build much more to my liking, as holy smite does a aoe knockdown+stun. Can use both war cry and holy smite to keep the baddies off either you or your companions if there health is getting low.

If you are still missing, maybe having another warrior in your party as a champ will help.

Or just use the toolset to give ur 2h weapon a +100 bonus to attack. I remember doing this on my third 2h playthrough, as i was sick of missing and the slow attack speed.

[gauntz]

Morrigan's mana problems isn't related to enemy spells, cause I noticed it happened when you're in combat with no enemies right by. I guess it's just Haste being so expensive. It's just funny how when she was primal/spirit/entropy, spamming Winter's Grasp all the time along with loads of offensive spells, I almost never had to give her a mana pot but now when I only have heal on allies -50% hp, group heal on allies -30% hp, Crushing Prison on nearby mages, Paralyze on nearby elites and Haste set on always, she gets out of mana in every fight. I have her on 45ish Spellpower and 30ish Willpower atm btw, with pretty ****ty gear though.

I though Ageless was a great sword considering the high damage and various unusual effects; I'm using it instead of Yusaris or Faith's Edge. I don't have any DLC I believe, I do have an first hand copy (digital download) of the game so I think I'm eligible for either Warden's Keep or The Stone Prisoner because of that though (can't find an activation key -.-.) Seems Chasind Great Maul will be available after doing this 3rd main quest, so will look for that.

Going for Champion atm because Berserker was underwhelming, I havn't unlocked Reaver this time and Allistair/Sten are Templars.

By the way, did the Jarvia quests last night. I think the suggestions for using Song of Courage were a great remedy; Leliana now hits almost as hard as my two handed warrior, misses far less frequently than before and seems pretty great in general. My two handed warrior seems to miss less as well. Morrigan still has ****ty mana, but I'm thinking about respecing her to a more offensive spec anyhow, since it feels more natural and I think I can do without Haste.

Two questions though; firstly, it seems like while Leliana misses frequently when her target is very close or far away, I don't think I've ever seen her Pinning Arrow or Scattershot actually miss. In other words her "special abilities" seem to always hit. However my 2h Warrior often misses his Two-Handed Sweep, Sunder Armor etc.. his special skills. Is this the case in DAO; that ranged skills always hit while melee skills can miss?

Also, at the moment I have Leliana with most archery talents finished, bard maxed out and 1 point in ranged (wolf pet.) But with Courage+Aim+Wolf pet, 90% of her stamina is gone. And this is while not using Suppressing Fire and possibly more sustains from Archery (though I know Rapid Shot can't be used with Aim.) Should I just pump cunning and forget Ranged sustains/Suppressing fire, just running with Courage+Aim, or get more willpower so I can use 3/4 sustains?

[HolyWarrior21]

The ranger class is similar to beserker to me, doesn't make up for the spec point. While having pets may sound usefull on paper, these pets aren't super resilient. I would go with bard+Duelist for leliana, with dueling helping with her auto-attacks missing. The auto attacks for all classes in DAO tend to miss quite a bit, or so I have noticed.

With morrigan, her mana problems are definatly the result of the haste spell. Haste has a -10 point penalty to combat mana regen and constant drain of around 10-15pts per second. It also jacks up her fatigue quite a bit too. To put that penalty into perspective, the mage class starts with a 2 point bonus to in combat mana regen. Thats a significant penalty, particularly with spells in general in DAO costing quite a bit.

But back to leliana. Dueling+Aim+Courage+Supressing fire will provide a significant bonus to hit and will make each additional hit more likely to succees as supressing fire stacks indefinatly. You actually don't need tooooooo much cunning as a ranged rogue as you will get more from dexterity in physical damage and str than cunning and armour penetration. The armour penetration from longbows in particular is more than enough. I would focus on mostly dex and willpower, and a little on cunning. If you max your defence score enough as a rogue, you don't have to worry as much on constitution as you will be barely hit. 40 dex. 20/25 will and the rest on cunning. Not you won't be opening too many locked containers or disarming traps without lvl 4 deft hand, but the rewards are pathetic anyway so your not missing out on anything.

With ur 2h warrior, bear in mind that great mauls have the lowest to-hit ratio of all the 2h weapons. It is in the sripting of the game, and as a modder myself i have found and modified these values - but i digress, mauls are only really usefull against lieutenant lvl enemies as the armour penetration is too high for critter or normal rank enemies. Having said that GM have a 1.25 str modifier for damage so they will hit bigger numbers on a high str warrior. Greatswords have the highest physical damage with a 1.1str modifier but a higher hit rate, and Greataxes have slightly lower base damage with the same 1.1 but a higher crit rate. The decision is yours of course

[gandanlin]

I had Leliana at 45% crit chance, 41 damage/arrow, and 23 armor penetration one game. That was with aim, song of courage, and about 45 cunning.

When Leliana has the lethality talent her cunning replaces strength as damage modifier, and it also contributes to armor penetration.

aim + song of courage + lethality + high cunning

Arrow of slaying can do huge damage (getting about 420 damage at lvl 18 in current game), but it is a one shot sort of thing. Need to time it well.

Some armor will boost her stamina. I think the spellward amulet will add a fairly hefty bonus, too.

Just some random thoughts...

[TheBigMatt90]

Berserk on a dual wielder is an incredible spec, and the best for a dual wielder (flat +8 damage to both hands and you dont like it? erm...hello )

For leliana you dont need Supressing Fire, Aim + SoC and auto attacks is enough, howeveer there is nothing wrong with it (but 7.5 attack isnt really that much). By the end of the game putting everything but around 36 into dex and the rest in cun I was at 57% crit, around 60 damage and 28 AP, with RtO gloves bow attacks are very fast. With Shales rock mastery (when its unbugged) you can easily get 100% crit rate. Its pretty rediculous.

[Aurust]

The guys you face in the proving team battles are pretty hard to hit naturally compared to other NPCs...just something ive noticed in my many many many playthroughs. Alot of times it comes down to what items your wearing. Considering your in orzammar get KEY TO THE CITY ring and then Ring of the Warrior in Caradins cross (Deep Roads). These two rings will help out IMMENSELY.

Modifié par Aurust, 24 juin 2011 - 04:37 .

[Last Darkness]

As a two hand warrior every single one of your stat points should be Str, you dont need anything else. Str adds to your chance to hit AKA Attack Score.
Berserker/templar is probably the worst you can do for a two hander warrior but one of the best for a duel wield warrior. Respec to either Champion/Reaver (Thats the most solid two hand build) or Champion/Templar (And Enjoy 3 Aoe knockdown abilitys). Berserker is the worst two hand style class choice since it only adds +8 damage per hit(Which is huge on fast hitting duel wielders though). I personaly prefer Reaver/Templar because Champion abilitys are big stamina drains and twohand is all about spamming talents.

Leilana....unfortunetly Archers in this game are terrible and require extensive effort, specific gear, and certain party combos to be anywhere near useful. (Sure you can get them to 100% Crit rate but they are still only hitting for around 100 damage, compared to other builds). Try respecing her as a Bard/Assassin and only have her have around 32 dex and 20 str and all other points in Cunning, you want at least 60+ Cunning preferably. Make her a duel dagger wielder and have her focus on backstabbing enemies. She is supremely better in this reguard.

Morrigan....30 Spelllpower is patheticaly low. A good rule of thumb per level is 2 Magic and 1 Will when your leveling her. Also if you pick Arcane Warrior as her second spec you can have her equip stronger armors, notably armors that give + Stamina which will convert into +mana.
Another option is to make her a blood mage, and build her 2 con and 1 magic per level. You wont have to worry about her mana but her health instead and with proper tactics for draining you dont have to worry bout it often times. Also telekinetic weapons is the weakest of the weapon damage buffs. As armor penetration only works against high armored targets. have her get Fiery weapons (Which can max at +20 damage a hit) or Frost Weapons (Which Max at +10 damage and slow opponets) I also highly do not suggest getting and running Haste. Its a bad stamina drain for not a decent return for talent spammers. (Works best for auto attack builds)

To complete your team I highly suggest another Warrior or a Stone Form Shale. If Another Warrior have them have Champion spec instead since Rally is a team wide buff and its a horrific drain on your warden to use. You can either make this warrior a tank or dps, though champion/berserker with duel wield style is a great support companion for damage.
If you bring Shale focus on her Stone Aura line and you should be able to buff your companions no problem with it. Force Field Spell+Stone Aura works great on her.

Though if you really want to go overboard.
Champion Warrior with Rally on Party.
= +10 Attack and +10 Defense (Chance to hit and chance to be hit, Armor reduces damage)
Also War cry reduces enemies attack by -10 which technicaly tranlates into +10 Defense for you.

Bard Rogue with Song of Courage on Party.
= Minimum +3 Attack, +2 Damage, +3 Crit Chance.

Shale with Stone Aura on Party.
= +10 Attack, +10 Defense, +4/8 Stamina/Mana Regen, +10 Spellpower, +5% Crit, +3 Damage, +3 Armor Penetration, +4% Spell Resist, +6/12 Health Regen.
Also Enemies in Aura are Slowed, and lose -5 Attack and Defense which technicaly translates into another +5 Attack and +5 Defense for you.

Now add in the varius buffs a Mage can conribute and your set lol