447 réponses à ce sujet

[Aaleel]

Aesieru wrote...

Well... when you got the Urn of Sacred Ashes, there was really no way you could be Atheist anymore... unless of course you were either ignorant, denialistic, or my personal favorite, a proponent that it was ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY, and thus a conspiracy.

Take Oghren to the Urn of Sacred Ashes and he gives all that you need to continue being an athiest.

[Aesieru]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Also I think all of the religions in Thedas are true. Andrastian beliefs, Dalish beliefs, the belief in the Stone and her power, the Qun.


All seem to have some level of truth in them, which fits in with my viewpoint of our world's religions. That they're all the same but with different aspects.

Well they're not... Christianity in full logistic analysis... came before all of them, or at least the religion before Christianity which was just old-testament Christianity without the "forgiveness by love and grace".

Using a little logic too, you can actually prove Christianity in terms of Jesus existing and all that and petitions by the man who actually killed him admitting that he killed him, what was said then, and then of course... all the logs of his existence AFTER that... but that's besides the point...

Using logic you can actually disprove most others religions, and I'm not even going to touch the witnesses, the sisters, or the "ologies".

Anyway...

The Maker... seems real, and the Old gods for the Elves seem more... I would say misconstrued as different aspects of the maker.

[LobselVith8]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

shantisands wrote...

Icinix wrote...

That makes me wonder if in some stages of the game (when they were toying around with being able to save a certain parental figure) they also toyed around with being able to stop a certain inevitable event.

That was always my supposition also.  (well, more that there were multiple endings)

True?  *shrugs* No idea.  So much leads to that end though, and would have made sense too.  

I once read somewhere that they had a different resolution to All that remains. That you could save Hawke's mum. And they cut it because too many people were rleoading their save because they felt letting her die wasn't the right way to end the quest.

And based on the clip I posted, either you could prevent Anders' al-Qaeda act, or Hawke is really just that irrelevant to the plot. *shrug*

Wasn't Gaider's claim about this directly contradicted by Mary Kirby, who claimed this didn't happen and said they simply came up with different ideas on how to handle it, from Merrill keeping her alive to Hawke becoming a serial killer to ressurect her?

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
In terms of controlling your character and having him act as you would like him to act, DAO is cleraly the best system of the three.  That is not to say that DAO is perfect - there is plenty of room to improve the reactivity of the PC in DAO (perhaps through the use of some sort of pausable interrupt system - In Exile and I hashed out a really quite good one in another thread) - but the failings of the DA2 and ME systems are obviously absent from DAO.

Indeed. If anyone's ever followed my posts they know I'm a stronger backer of PC VO, but all things considered I think there is an equivalent non-VO system that actually provides a superior experience to VO (because of the opportunity to write a multiple of responses and no cost to them sort of space on the list).

[aduellist]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The Guardian is the one thing I can't explain though.

Well, the Guardian could be trained in the same way as Keepers.  The current Guardian is just the latest holder of the post.  Throw in some hallucinogenic mushrooms and there you go.  Or it could be a form of possession, like Flemeth.  You don't see a current apprentice about because those nasty villagers have shut off the potential supply.

Modifié par aduellist, 01 juin 2011 - 01:05 .

[Aesieru]

Aaleel wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Well... when you got the Urn of Sacred Ashes, there was really no way you could be Atheist anymore... unless of course you were either ignorant, denialistic, or my personal favorite, a proponent that it was ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY, and thus a conspiracy.

Take Oghren to the Urn of Sacred Ashes and he gives all that you need to continue being an athiest.

He leaves a lot unanswered...

[Zanallen]

Aesieru wrote...

Except they were invulnerable... and that magic platforms appeared randomly... and that it was able to fight off a dragon and an entire cult just by its mere presence... and its ability to read your mind and foretell your darkest secrets... and the fact it had all of Andrastia's encounters in a convenient pair of columns to communicate with.

Being denialistic of all that would really require some sheer stupidity or a recent localized-in-brain-region-of-logic lobotomy.

No one is saying that the cave wasn't the resting place for Andraste's ashes. However, if you take Ohgren with you, the game gives you a second explanation to consider. Lyrium has strange effects, some of which are obviously unknown. The Fade is a rather odd place as well and is connected to lyrium in some way.

That being said, Hawke probably doesn't even know about the Urn of Sacred Ashes being found.

[LobselVith8]

Aesieru wrote...

Anyway...

The Maker... seems real, and the Old gods for the Elves seem more... I would say misconstrued as different aspects of the maker.

In the word of Sten, no. The elven pantheon and the Ancestors of the dwarves don't seem like "misconstrued" aspects of the Maker in the least. Neither does the pantheon of the Tevinter Imperium. A group of intelligent and powerful dragons =/= an absentee father-figure.

[Aesieru]

Over a few years, I'd say the Chantry's were chanting about it all day.

[Aesieru]

The dragon thing is just false worship... numerous games worship dragons falsely.

Most games... worship dragons falsely.

Skyrim will have people worship dragons... and it will be falsely.

[Morroian]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Not IMHO, I can honestly say that 100% of the time in DAO DA2 the dialogue was delivered with the intent I wanted in terms of how the line was delivered (angry, snarky etc.). A lot of the time the actual dialogue didn't match up with the paraphrase very well but thats a different issue.

So, you concur with my reply? (You did say 100% with Origins)

Fixed I meant DA2.

Tommy6860 wrote...

Genly wrote...

I honestly haven't noticed that. Even when you consider an obviously poor (and funny hehe) example of the paraphrasing ("I'm a mage" -> "I have mage friends"), the end resultlng meaning is the same. Even if it completely destroys my sense of roleplaying , Anders will still like me, NPC should know I support mages and not his ideas, etc.

So, the paraphrasing icon wheel doesn't function as well as the literal written line responses in Origins?

The intent is clearer in DA2 the literal response is clearer in DAO.

Modifié par Morroian, 01 juin 2011 - 01:12 .

[Marionetten]

Morroian wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

The key in your response? On nightmare. Which is the only difficulty level that I found in DA2 that forces you to think at all in regards to combat.

So play on nightmare. Isn't that the whole point of having different difficulty levels.

Difficulty levels only go so far when the entire encounter design is screwed up beyond repair. I mean, did anyone enjoy the Arishok fight on any difficulty? Sure, different difficulties can be nice when you have a working and balanced system to attach them to. Dragon Age II didn't have that.

Modifié par Marionetten, 01 juin 2011 - 01:13 .

[LobselVith8]

Aesieru wrote...

Well... when you got the Urn of Sacred Ashes, there was really no way you could be Atheist anymore... unless of course you were either ignorant, denialistic, or my personal favorite, a proponent that it was ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY, and thus a conspiracy.

Except for Oghren's explanation about the wall of lyrium as the reason behind what they've seen in the ruins of the temple. The Guardian's longevity could be that he's tied to the Ashes in the same way that Zathrian's immortality was tied to the curse he inflicted. Most of what The Warden witnesses can be explained by magic, as Genitivi is willing to say that the wraiths encountered were people who willingly chose to become "immortal guardians" of the Ashes.

Aesieru wrote...

Except they were invulnerable... and that magic platforms appeared randomly... and that it was able to fight off a dragon and an entire cult just by its mere presence... and its ability to read your mind and foretell your darkest secrets... and the fact it had all of Andrastia's encounters in a convenient pair of columns to communicate with.

Being denialistic of all that would really require some sheer stupidity or a recent localized-in-brain-region-of-logic lobotomy.

Oghren makes note that the wall of lyrium is having an effect on the entire temple. Simply because you want the Maker to be real in the DA universe doesn't mean he is.

[In Exile]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I would've liked to make Hawke an atheist. Right now I'm roleplaying Damaeus Cousland as an atheist because he was actually given the option to tell Mother Mallol in Castle Cousland that he doesn't believe in the Maker.

That.... actually made me happy when I found it out.

Little choices on a character mean so much in the grand scheme of things.

If you followed DA:O, Gaider mentioned that these were options added based on player outcry for atheism and that they were inconsistent with the setting.

[Aaleel]

Aesieru wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Well... when you got the Urn of Sacred Ashes, there was really no way you could be Atheist anymore... unless of course you were either ignorant, denialistic, or my personal favorite, a proponent that it was ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY, and thus a conspiracy.

Take Oghren to the Urn of Sacred Ashes and he gives all that you need to continue being an athiest.

He leaves a lot unanswered...

In the game where my Warden just discounts the Maker at every chance.  It all boils down to where you think magic comes from.  Everything can be explained with magic.  Does it come from a Maker, does it come from Old Gods, or somewhere else.  Only difference is that my Warden and those before it have seen the manifestation of an Old Gods, but never one stitch of evidence that a Maker exists.

[Zanallen]

In Exile wrote...

If you followed DA:O, Gaider mentioned that these were options added based on player outcry for atheism and that they were inconsistent with the setting.

True. Atheism doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the setting. However, I do think you should be able to adhere to a form of worship other than that of the Maker. Perhaps the old Elven gods or the Tevinter Old Gods or whatever else. It allows for an interesting dynamic as long as the game reacts to your character's beliefs. If it doesn't...Well, then it is pointless.

[TEWR]

In Exile wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I would've liked to make Hawke an atheist. Right now I'm roleplaying Damaeus Cousland as an atheist because he was actually given the option to tell Mother Mallol in Castle Cousland that he doesn't believe in the Maker.

That.... actually made me happy when I found it out.

Little choices on a character mean so much in the grand scheme of things.

If you followed DA:O, Gaider mentioned that these were options added based on player outcry for atheism and that they were inconsistent with the setting.

how? There are atheists in every society. Just because a religion exists doesn't mean everyone will believe in it.

[Zeevico]

Zanallen wrote...

In Exile wrote...

If you followed DA:O, Gaider mentioned that these were options added based on player outcry for atheism and that they were inconsistent with the setting.

True. Atheism doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the setting. However, I do think you should be able to adhere to a form of worship other than that of the Maker. Perhaps the old Elven gods or the Tevinter Old Gods or whatever else. It allows for an interesting dynamic as long as the game reacts to your character's beliefs. If it doesn't...Well, then it is pointless.

Inconsistent with the setting?
Morrigan's viewpoint seems to be a sensible kind of atheism to me.

[LobselVith8]

Aesieru wrote...

Rationalization comes from the fact that your choosing who will die in terms of the mages, and being able to try to help out the innocent ones as best you can and turn a few of the templars mindsets to something more positive... all from the inside of the organization... would result in the least deaths... plus you did keep encountering crazy mages who only ever turned out to be crazy.

I don't think killing men, women, and children and making tranquil out of three of them is doing much to help out the innocent. And Hawke encounters templar antagonists who commit monstrous acts against mages.

Aesieru wrote...

No not condemning them, but realizing in Act 2 that you're trying to help, but that all the rebellion in the circle isn't really contributing to fixing things, so to kind of just take things easy and play nice for a bit is the best choice, but then Act 3 comes because the mages respond to the templar leaders over-excitement and... well bad things happen.

There is no rebellion in the Kirkwall Circle. Some mages are running away because they don't want to live a life of subjugation.

Aesieru wrote...

Plus, in my playthrough as a logical player who wanted to side with the mages... things didn't go that way because unfortunately all the mages I met either tried to kill me, or tried to kill anyone related to anything I was dealing with and was giving a very bad impression

I got a bad impression, too, when I heard a Circle mage talk about how she can't talk to a civilian or she'll be given 30 lashes. Then I got another bad impression when Hawke saw a Harrowed mage made tranquil illegally. Again when Hawke heard a templar threaten to tranquil and rape a child mage, and again when Hawke had heard another mage talk about being raped by a templar. That gave me a bad impression of the Chantry controlled Circles and the Kirkwall templars.

Aesieru wrote...

and I feared that it would draw out people looking for them and have them target me, so I had to be more careful but I realized to truly be PRO-MAGE and also a good person, I had to join the Templars.. or at least try to work from within to discredit them while fixing things up.

My goal quickly became becoming the Vicount so I could enact some real change quickly.

So your goal was to become Viscount, a figurehead with no real political power in a city-state controlled by the templars? We know from historical accounts that templars are the ones with the authority and the power, not the Viscounts.

[LobselVith8]

In Exile wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I would've liked to make Hawke an atheist. Right now I'm roleplaying Damaeus Cousland as an atheist because he was actually given the option to tell Mother Mallol in Castle Cousland that he doesn't believe in the Maker.

That.... actually made me happy when I found it out.

Little choices on a character mean so much in the grand scheme of things.

If you followed DA:O, Gaider mentioned that these were options added based on player outcry for atheism and that they were inconsistent with the setting. 

That must explain Morrigan, who clearly says she doesn't believe in the Maker when speaking to Leliana...

[Zanallen]

Zeevico wrote...

Inconsistent with the setting?
Morrigan's viewpoint seems to be a sensible kind of atheism to me.

The setting of Ferelden as similar to Europe during the Middle Ages. You don't see a whole lot of outright disbelief in God during those times. Question as to the nature of God, yes, but not a lot of true Atheism.

[Maria Caliban]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

element eater wrote...

 Heather Rabitach: We’ve adopted the Mass Effect-style conversation wheel, departing from our very text heavy and, at times, confusing system in Origins. One issue from fan feedback that kept coming up was that people would pick an option from the dialogue and not get the response they intended'

so to remedy that you changed to a system well known for its inability to accurately reprersent what will be said by the pc

Based on that I get the impression that Heather didn't totally buy the talking points she was trying to follow.

I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing?

You didn't know what tone the PC would take.

The 'response' here isn't what the PC says but how the NPCs respond. For example, after the love-scene with Leliana, there's a line where you can tell her she's crazy. I never picked that line because it was mean and something of a jerk thing to say after sleeping together.

Later, I saw a YouTube video of it, and apparently the PC is just joking with her.

[TEWR]

why does everything have to be synonymous with our world's history? Why can't a fantasy world have full blown atheists? Why can't some things not be completely similar to our world?

I say let full blown atheists exist.

[Zeevico]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

element eater wrote...

 Heather Rabitach: We’ve adopted the Mass Effect-style conversation wheel, departing from our very text heavy and, at times, confusing system in Origins. One issue from fan feedback that kept coming up was that people would pick an option from the dialogue and not get the response they intended'

so to remedy that you changed to a system well known for its inability to accurately reprersent what will be said by the pc

Based on that I get the impression that Heather didn't totally buy the talking points she was trying to follow.

I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing?

You didn't know what tone the PC would take.

The 'response' here isn't what the PC says but how the NPCs respond. For example, after the love-scene with Leliana, there's a line where you can tell her she's crazy. I never picked that line because it was mean and something of a jerk thing to say after sleeping together.

Later, I saw a YouTube video of it, and apparently the PC is just joking with her.

These kinds of misunderstandings are inevitable under both the paraphrase wheel and the dialogue system.
Perhaps a dialogue system with intent icons would be the best solution.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

You didn't know what tone the PC would take.

The 'response' here isn't what the PC says but how the NPCs respond. For example, after the love-scene with Leliana, there's a line where you can tell her she's crazy. I never picked that line because it was mean and something of a jerk thing to say after sleeping together.

Later, I saw a YouTube video of it, and apparently the PC is just joking with her.

Or rather, Leliana interpreted it as a joke. How it was intended is entirely up to the player.

Playing Devil's Advocate just a little bit here, because I'm well aware of the realities of the situation... the NPC can only react as the writer's intended. So, as far as the game is concerned, how the line is intended is entirely irrelevant.

Ideally (and expensively, if the PC is voiced), the player can select what words she says as well as what tone she says them with. And the NPC reacts as they realistically would to those words and that tone. I can say to Leliana "You're crazy" and be a jerk, and she gets pissed off. Cool. Or, I can say "You're crazy" and be joking, and she laughs. Also cool. Or maybe she still gets pissed off, because she doesn't appreciate the player joking about her mental state. But the game would ideally react both to tone and to content, which neither method accomplishes.