447 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

There simply has to be cases where you are railroaded in one direction. Now the whole thing is how well the writers and designers manage to make the player at least feel they have some dissenting choice. The case of railroading is a time honored tradition that happens no matter if you are in a computer game or a DnD campaign with a Dungeon master or whatever. It is not as easy as some people make it out to give illusion of choice or just blatantly railroad. People don't like either at times.

At least with an illusion of choice you can say, "I at least was able to roleplay my character to act one way even if my action didn't have the result I hoped."

It's not an easy line to walk for a writer.

[Cutlass Jack]

Nerevar-as wrote...

It was in Gameinformer.

Maybe I missunderstood something, but the reviewer said by this time Hawke could be a very different character. I saw nothing in Act 1 that could give that impression.

No he said by that point in the game your Hawke could be a very different character than his. Not that your Hawke would change somehow.

Which is true. Aside from class/gender differences, your personality will probably have solidified by that point. The Spouse and I both did Male Rogues on our first playthrough and they couldn't have been more different by that point.

[tmp7704]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

I simply make the point that this game didn't skimp a cent on voice acting but saw fit to recycle environments. More movie for less game. Not happy, Bioware.

The environments are more a time thing than a money thing. I doubt their level designers could have been working any harder than they were, and they certainly weren't being held up level-designing by the voice team.

These are also people (and so indirectly money) thing, i think. What i mean is, DA2 tripled the staff working on the cutscenes (compared to DAO) so they could make enough of them to cover the "cinematic experience" requirement. But suppose the same resources went instead into tripling the amount of people who build the caves, then it's reasonable to imagine we'd see more than two of them.

They did make decision what to focus on/spend the money on like Zeevico says, and the recycled environments are a direct result of that.

[tmp7704]

Morroian wrote...

Carver took snarky Hawke to task for making fun of everything. I think Aveline does at some point as well. And all the companions respond differently in terms of friendship/rivalry depending on how you respond to them. Varric likes snarky Hawke for example.

OK, that makes it three exceptions then instead of one i remembered

i'd consider the friendship/rivalry scores a separate thing since they're driven more by whether you agree with the companion or not, than the tone associated with these responses. That's why the whole mechanics is named friendship/rivalry and not say, "appreciation of Hawke's comedy talent".

[TEWR]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Facepalm-inducing:

while you may hate that scene you just love posting it don't you


That scene would've been better if the Templars that were in the Chantry when it went boom had been saying "Look harder men! You there, escort the grand Cleric out!"


and then boom.


would've been much better because they're searching for it and trying to get the Grand Cleric out. They'd still fail, but it wouldn't be as facepalm worthy.

edit: grammar fixes.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 juin 2011 - 04:00 .

[TEWR]

I really want to apply to Bioware, just because I've come up with maybe 25 halfway decent ideas on how DA2 could've been better.

I should apply, KoP should apply, and maybe a few other people.

DA2 isn't a bad game. I do like it, but it just has horrible instances that make me want to introduce Mr. Face to Miss Palm.

[Cutlass Jack]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I really want to apply to Bioware, just because I've come up with maybe 25 halfway decent ideas on how DA2 could've been better.

Well I think most of us do. And I'm sure the Devs had at least twice that many, but there wasn't the development time to do them.

[erynnar]

tmp7704 wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Carver took snarky Hawke to task for making fun of everything. I think Aveline does at some point as well. And all the companions respond differently in terms of friendship/rivalry depending on how you respond to them. Varric likes snarky Hawke for example.

OK, that makes it three exceptions then instead of one i remembered

i'd consider the friendship/rivalry scores a separate thing since they're driven more by whether you agree with the companion or not, than the tone associated with these responses. That's why the whole mechanics is named friendship/rivalry and not say, "appreciation of Hawke's comedy talent".

Okay, this made me laugh out loud at work. Yeah, some of my companions didn't appreciate my Hawke's comedy talent at all. ROFL!

[TEWR]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I really want to apply to Bioware, just because I've come up with maybe 25 halfway decent ideas on how DA2 could've been better.

Well I think most of us do. And I'm sure the Devs had at least twice that many, but there wasn't the development time to do them.

It's just very saddening to me though.
We should start an offshoot of Bioware! Make it like the fraternities in the Circle of Magi!

[MonkeyLungs]

Zeevico wrote...

Would it be so bad to go back to a time where not everything under the sun was voice acted? The time when we had games instead of quasi movies? More content> rushed and voiced game, anyone?

It would be so awesome if we did. I have been saying this since ever since. This perception that every single line has to be voiced is a detriment to game for me. I like reading, and I think text brings so much advantage to the genre. I like using my imagination.

The Warden WAS NOT MUTE!!!!!!!!!!

[TEWR]

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 juin 2011 - 04:30 .

[erynnar]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I really want to apply to Bioware, just because I've come up with maybe 25 halfway decent ideas on how DA2 could've been better.

I should apply, KoP should apply, and maybe a few other people.

DA2 isn't a bad game. I do like it, but it just has horrible instances that make me want to introduce Mr. Face to Miss Palm.

*giggles* Yep, they had quite a few meetings, though I still enjoyed the game as a mage (which funny enough had Mr. Face and Miss Palm meeting enough I thought they'd get married).  And no it wasn't a bad game.

[erynnar]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Zeevico wrote...

Would it be so bad to go back to a time where not everything under the sun was voice acted? The time when we had games instead of quasi movies? More content> rushed and voiced game, anyone?

It would be so awesome if we did. I have been saying this since ever since. This perception that every single line has to be voiced is a detriment to game for me. I like reading, and I think text brings so much advantage to the genre. I like using my imagination.

The Warden WAS NOT MUTE!!!!!!!!!!

This^  I don't watch movies unless they are a blue ray and I don't  watch much TV. I prefer to read.

And no, Kai was not (not tranquil that is a vallaslin from the character creator) mute by any stretch of the imagination, not when I have a 99+ chapter fanfic going on her. Mute? Yeah, not so much.

Modifié par erynnar, 01 juin 2011 - 04:40 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Cinematics are just the way to focus on these moments, like having a camera move around a character who's confused. The state of the camera's movement implying more to the sense of the character's confusion. The game's going to be voiced and there's going to be virtual acting. So designing the cinematics around these things only helps convey meaning. It doesn't strip away the implications of the acting and voice, it adds texture.

I would say the acting is part of the cinematics.  And the voice is a necessary consequence of the cinematics (can you imagine a cinematic game with the characters not voiced?).

Since I want neither, I want not to have cinematics.

Completely disagree to the point of fuming anger.

Games constantly supply mood through use of lighting, level design, characters, dialogue, music, and yes cinematics. When you start Half-Life 2 you step off of a train and into a run down depressed muted world where the Combine Overwatch have been systematically killing off the human race. It is instantly oppressive and depressing. As the first level continues you find yourself on the run with no weapons as many Overwatch troopers fire on you. This is deliberately done to thrill and give the player a sense of danger.

Games set mood all the time. It's one of the things they do to allow role-playing. Playing in an empty sandbox means nothing to your character. Playing in a sandbox where there's this creepy old house, faint almost inaudible echoes in the distance, and fog obscuring possible threats...now that's interesting to roleplay living in.

Sure it is, but how the PC feels about that environment is something that needs to be left to the player.  The game can't show the character being afraid without removing from the player the ability to have his character be unafraid.

But it still depends on the game. BioWare's never created a place and just let the player run free. They've always had linear games with no sandbox elements.

That's arrant nonsense.  BioWare have often offered some sandbox elements.  Exploration is an important sandbox element.  And I would argue that their unvoiced dialogue is itself a sandbox element.  Side-quests are a sandbox element.  Any main plot that isn't explicitly presented to the player is a sandbox element.

But how do you do that in game-play? Have a +10% chance to melee enemies in hitting Hawke because Hawke's mind is focused on mourning? You cannot mourn as gameplay. It's impossible. The closest thing you could do is wander the mansion thinking what your Hawke's thinking and eventually leaving the house to continue the story.

That would be fine.

Because it would allow me to do that, or not do it, based on how Hawke was feeling.

Your design requires that Hawke mourn.  That's unacceptable.  How can the writers know that Hawke will mourn at all?  The writers don't know what feelings Hawke has toward those around him.

You can still do that here. But what does it hurt to see Hawke mourning?

It completely removes the player's ability to have Hawke NOT MOURN.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 01 juin 2011 - 05:46 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

City elves sounded like humans, didn't they?

No, they didn't.

[Blastback]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

You didn't know what tone the PC would take.

The 'response' here isn't what the PC says but how the NPCs respond. For example, after the love-scene with Leliana, there's a line where you can tell her she's crazy. I never picked that line because it was mean and something of a jerk thing to say after sleeping together.

Later, I saw a YouTube video of it, and apparently the PC is just joking with her.

Or rather, Leliana interpreted it as a joke. How it was intended is entirely up to the player.

Playing Devil's Advocate just a little bit here, because I'm well aware of the realities of the situation... the NPC can only react as the writer's intended. So, as far as the game is concerned, how the line is intended is entirely irrelevant.

Ideally (and expensively, if the PC is voiced), the player can select what words she says as well as what tone she says them with. And the NPC reacts as they realistically would to those words and that tone. I can say to Leliana "You're crazy" and be a jerk, and she gets pissed off. Cool. Or, I can say "You're crazy" and be joking, and she laughs. Also cool. Or maybe she still gets pissed off, because she doesn't appreciate the player joking about her mental state. But the game would ideally react both to tone and to content, which neither method accomplishes.

That's why I'm waiting for a holodeck or danger room.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I really want to apply to Bioware, just because I've come up with maybe 25 halfway decent ideas on how DA2 could've been better.

I should apply, KoP should apply, and maybe a few other people.

DA2 isn't a bad game. I do like it, but it just has horrible instances that make me want to introduce Mr. Face to Miss Palm.

*nods head in agreement*

I don't know if I can think of a game that doesn't have moments like that.  

[TEWR]

well.... DA2 had it more than it should've

[Mike3207]

He just did another interview about DA2:

http://www.gamasutra...res_dragon_.php