Alistairlover94 wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I don't get it either. If anything the list wasn't the problem. The silent protagonist was. You couldn't accurately gauge how you said what you picked, and that's where the problem really was.
The list was fine. It was the silence that caused reactions that people didn't want or expect.
Probably. Though that wasn't a problem for me.
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alpha Protocol takes it to a whole different level. It doesn't even give you paraphrasing(not saying that I like the dialouge wheel more for it), but it just says "Sarcastic", "Direct" and so on.
In short, how is the dialouge wheel a less confusing system than actually reading what the PC is actually going to say and do?
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Genly wrote...
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alpha Protocol takes it to a whole different level. It doesn't even give you paraphrasing(not saying that I like the dialouge wheel more for it), but it just says "Sarcastic", "Direct" and so on.
In short, how is the dialouge wheel a less confusing system than actually reading what the PC is actually going to say and do?
Sometimes the dialogue would include sarcastic options, which could be confusing. Or cases where the player would pick a seemingly rude option in response to another character's joking, believing they're simply trading friendly jabs (something the tone would normally indicate) ... and get relationship hit as result because the option would be delivered straight and the target would take offense. A difference between picking a purple and red option in DA2 terms.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alistairlover94 wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
I don't get it either. If anything the list wasn't the problem. The silent protagonist was. You couldn't accurately gauge how you said what you picked, and that's where the problem really was.
The list was fine. It was the silence that caused reactions that people didn't want or expect.
Probably. Though that wasn't a problem for me.
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
tmp7704 wrote...
Sometimes the dialogue would include sarcastic options, which could be confusing. Or cases where the player would pick a seemingly rude option in response to another character's joking, believing they're simply trading friendly jabs (something the tone would normally indicate) ... and get relationship hit as result because the option would be delivered straight and the target would take offense. A difference between picking a purple and red option in DA2 terms.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alistairlover94 wrote...
Genly wrote...
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alpha Protocol takes it to a whole different level. It doesn't even give you paraphrasing(not saying that I like the dialouge wheel more for it), but it just says "Sarcastic", "Direct" and so on.
In short, how is the dialouge wheel a less confusing system than actually reading what the PC is actually going to say and do?
Add icons next to each option in the list. Problem solved.
Alistairlover94 wrote...
Genly wrote...
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alpha Protocol takes it to a whole different level. It doesn't even give you paraphrasing(not saying that I like the dialouge wheel more for it), but it just says "Sarcastic", "Direct" and so on.
In short, how is the dialouge wheel a less confusing system than actually reading what the PC is actually going to say and do?
Add icons next to each option in the list. Problem solved.
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Alistairlover94 wrote...
Genly wrote...
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alpha Protocol takes it to a whole different level. It doesn't even give you paraphrasing(not saying that I like the dialouge wheel more for it), but it just says "Sarcastic", "Direct" and so on.
In short, how is the dialouge wheel a less confusing system than actually reading what the PC is actually going to say and do?
Add icons next to each option in the list. Problem solved.
Very much this. This was suggested numerous times in the Constructive criticism thread as an ideal compromise.
Alas, David Gaider has said that they like the dialogue wheel and highly doubt it will ever be removed.
Guest_Puddi III_*
Modifié par Filament, 31 mai 2011 - 08:37 .
Genly wrote...
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.
Hopefully we'll get to know both next game.
Modifié par Genly, 31 mai 2011 - 08:39 .
Alistairlover94 wrote...
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Based on that I get the impression that Heather didn't totally buy the talking points she was trying to follow.element eater wrote...
Heather Rabitach: We’ve adopted the Mass Effect-style conversation wheel, departing from our very text heavy and, at times, confusing system in Origins. One issue from fan feedback that kept coming up was that people would pick an option from the dialogue and not get the response they intended'
so to remedy that you changed to a system well known for its inability to accurately reprersent what will be said by the pc
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alpha Protocol takes it to a whole different level. It doesn't even give you paraphrasing(not saying that I like the dialouge wheel more for it), but it just says "Sarcastic", "Direct" and so on.
In short, how is the dialouge wheel a less confusing system than actually reading what the PC is actually going to say and do?
Alistairlover94 wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Alistairlover94 wrote...
Genly wrote...
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.Alistairlover94 wrote...
I don't get it, what aspect of the dialouge list was confusing? If anything, it allows me to choose what the PC actually says, instead of just picking "Hey! I'm a mage!" And getting "I have friends who are mages."
Alpha Protocol takes it to a whole different level. It doesn't even give you paraphrasing(not saying that I like the dialouge wheel more for it), but it just says "Sarcastic", "Direct" and so on.
In short, how is the dialouge wheel a less confusing system than actually reading what the PC is actually going to say and do?
Add icons next to each option in the list. Problem solved.
Very much this. This was suggested numerous times in the Constructive criticism thread as an ideal compromise.
Alas, David Gaider has said that they like the dialogue wheel and highly doubt it will ever be removed.
Sorry for sounding a bit crude here, but...GODDAMNIT!!!!!!
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 31 mai 2011 - 08:41 .
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Genly wrote...
An interesting bit is about the framed narrative: "... and also have the concept of the “unreliable narrator”—such as in The Usual Suspects where you’re not certain by the end of the tale whether the narrator was telling the truth."
Retconning has never been easier.
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Hehe, yes, I prefer to have both too. But I can see, for ingame mechanics (like friendship/rivalry, enemy will attack you or not...) how you say is more important than the actual what. However, for roleplaying, which is what interests me the most, I find the current system anything but ideal.The Elite Elite wrote...
Genly wrote...
Just to play devil's advocate (as I dont really love the conversation wheel), when you choose an option in a list of text lines, like DA:O, it's difficult to know beforehand the tone and other characteristics associated with social interactions, Much like on the internet, where sometimes you have to use emoticons and tags to convey what you really mean, along with text. Ingame, that's acomplished by the icons in the wheel.
So, we go from knowing what we'll say but not how it will be said, to not knowing what we'll say but knowing how it'll be said.
Modifié par Genly, 31 mai 2011 - 08:46 .
Alistairlover94 wrote...
@TEWR: Funny thing is, that TW2 sometimes doesn't paraphrase. Geralt sometimes actually says what's on the dialouge wheel.
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Considering Sketch says "don't hang out with storytellers. Never know what they'll say." I bet Bioware placed that quest in there just as a last resort.
"Varric lied! Hawke actually did investigate Leandra's death! Varric just thinks Hawke is an enormous putz and wants to make him seem that way!"
Genly wrote...
An interesting bit about the framed narrative: "... and also have the concept of the “unreliable narrator”—such as in The Usual Suspects where you’re not certain by the end of the tale whether the narrator was telling the truth."
Retconning has never been easier.
Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 31 mai 2011 - 08:51 .
Alistairlover94 wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Considering Sketch says "don't hang out with storytellers. Never know what they'll say." I bet Bioware placed that quest in there just as a last resort.
"Varric lied! Hawke actually did investigate Leandra's death! Varric just thinks Hawke is an enormous putz and wants to make him seem that way!"
If Hawke even actually exists. A retcon would be really appreciated here.
Modifié par Genly, 31 mai 2011 - 08:53 .
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
David Gaider: There was a lengthy post-mortem process after Origins where each part of the development team discussed what worked and what didn’t work, and what we’d like to see changed for Dragon Age II.
Then there was taking into account a lot of the feedback from the game’s release, both from the fans as well as the reviews—seeing what they wanted, or at the very least what they thought needed improvement.
Heather Rabitach: To implement these changes, enhancements needed to be made to our graphics engine for the art team and to the combat style for the gameplay group. Before entering full production this required a
lot of programming support and upgrades to our engine and tools. It was a big challenge on a tight timeline, but we had a clear vision of how we wanted the game to look and feel, so once the goals were set everyone was onboard to make the game a more accessible experience for those who are new to RPGs while still remaining tactically satisfying for those who enjoy the depth of a large-scale RPG.
Yet neither of these was done well. Depth and DA2 are pretty mortal enemies imo.
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Genly wrote...
Alistairlover94 wrote...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Considering Sketch says "don't hang out with storytellers. Never know what they'll say." I bet Bioware placed that quest in there just as a last resort.
"Varric lied! Hawke actually did investigate Leandra's death! Varric just thinks Hawke is an enormous putz and wants to make him seem that way!"
If Hawke even actually exists. A retcon would be really appreciated here.
I wouldnt mind if the plot in DAIII would be like the main character is Varric, he starts by saying: "Ok, the truth now: There was no Hawke, I was the one who completely messed the situation in Kirkwall..."
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