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[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Honestly that whole Q&A makes it sound like every terrible design decision was a goal of the dev team.

[Icinix]

I thought the combat was very good in DA2 - but BECAUSE I didn't need to swap as much (if ever) between the party. They generally have the intelligence to know that If I upgraded something, Id want them to use it. But sorry Heather...the combat happened too fast for my liking -

..and who complained about talking heads? I want names!

[tmp7704]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

I personally dd not have that problem. At all. I picked what I thought was a snarky option from the list, and it always was.

It's fortunate for you, but it isn't universal. It's pretty common problem with the writing after all, to the point where irony punctuation was considered quite a few times in the past 500 years or so.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Icinix wrote...

I thought the combat was very good in DA2 - but BECAUSE I didn't need to swap as much (if ever) between the party. They generally have the intelligence to know that If I upgraded something, Id want them to use it. But sorry Heather...the combat happened too fast for my liking -

..and who complained about talking heads? I want names!

And that's half the problem for a party based CPRG. DA2 has very little tactics involved, especially when you add in the bad guys falling from the sky.

[WilliamShatner]

One of the criticisms often leveled against BioWare RPGs is the amount of talking heads dialogue.

WTH?

I've NEVER seen that criticised.

And anyone who does criticise it is an idiot.

[Zem_]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Heather Rabitach: To implement these changes, enhancements needed to be made to our graphics engine for the art team and to the combat style for the gameplay group. Before entering full production this required a
lot of programming support and upgrades to our engine and tools. It was a big challenge on a tight timeline, but we had a clear vision of how we wanted the game to look and feel, so once the goals were set everyone was onboard to make the game a more accessible experience for those who are new to RPGs while still remaining tactically satisfying for those who enjoy the depth of a large-scale RPG.


Yet neither of these was done well. Depth and DA2 are pretty mortal enemies imo.

Key phrase in Heather's quote there: "Tight timeline".  That right there is where your depth went.  It's almost amusing to see all the time people spend here on these boards discussing what worked and what didn't when what REALLY doesn't work is all too simple: Lack of effort.  DA2 simply does not represent anywhere near the scale of effort expended on DAO and so cannot possibly hope to compare to it.

[Mr.House]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I thought the combat was very good in DA2 - but BECAUSE I didn't need to swap as much (if ever) between the party. They generally have the intelligence to know that If I upgraded something, Id want them to use it. But sorry Heather...the combat happened too fast for my liking -

..and who complained about talking heads? I want names!

And that's half the problem for a party based CPRG. DA2 has very little tactics involved, especially when you add in the bad guys falling from the sky.

Really? Funny then that I used tactics, pause and play and thinking just as much as I did in DAO.

[Maverick827]

Here are some facts about my experiences with lists and wheels, take it as you will:

1. I have been surprised more times by how NPCs react to things that my character says in DAO more often than I have been surprised by what my voiced protagonist actually says in ME, ME2, and DA2 combined.

2. I have been surprised more often by what the voiced protagonist will say in tutorial of TW2 more often than I have in the entirety ME, ME2, or DA2.

3. I have found wheels to be easier to transport over long distances, especially up or down inclines.

4. I have found lists to be optimal for presenting sequential data, and wheels optimal for presenting proportional data.

5. My car has four wheels and zero lists. I would most likely express this ratio of wheels : lists using a wheel (see #4).

[Damariel]

@Autolycus and maybe not only English language sadly...

Modifié par Damariel, 31 mai 2011 - 09:02 .

[Genly]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Yes, I've pointed this out again and again in various threads.

Sorry, I suspected people have said so, I'm not on the forums much... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/pouty.png[/smilie]

Now my question is:
Suppose
the game had been engaging, exhausting (in a good way) and an epic
experience to play. A really good game. How many of you would then
- upon learning that all of it, all of what you have played with passion
and immersion, is just a lie, - cheer and say "Wow, how awesome. That
is really soo cool. Laidlaw is soo clever." ?

How can one NOT see that tons of things about DA2 are complete disasters? It's just mindboggling.

Well,
no matter how good or bad the story (and/or game) were in DAII, I
seriously doubt they would retconned lots of it, let alone the whole of
the plot. But some bits here and there, maybe.

[Icinix]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I thought the combat was very good in DA2 - but BECAUSE I didn't need to swap as much (if ever) between the party. They generally have the intelligence to know that If I upgraded something, Id want them to use it. But sorry Heather...the combat happened too fast for my liking -

..and who complained about talking heads? I want names!

And that's half the problem for a party based CPRG. DA2 has very little tactics involved, especially when you add in the bad guys falling from the sky.

On the contrary - I liked it because of the tactics I could use WITHOUT needing to swap characters..I could see quickly who was doing AOE etc and act accordingly..with two healers I didn't need to worry about clicking between people to tell them to drink potions etc...

but yes...the bad guys falling from the sky just threw that on its head halfway through every fight..but for the first half of every fight was good

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Autolycus wrote...

We're seriously still discussing the dialogue? Jesus Christ...how dumb does the game need to be to please people?

We have had silent protagonists for 20+ years.....no one bothered then...no one complained about or picked the wrong dialogue options then....

And more importantly....no need for stupid little icons telling us what the sentence portrayed...but then...well...English language and reading skills have degenerated lately I guess....

Yes but we were also encouraged to read back then. Young people these days? Good luck, heck will all the tweeters and twitters and facebooks, most people now can't seem to even type proper english to begin with never mind have to do a bit of reading in a game.

No it has to be all voice acted for them to care or pay attention. I'm pretty sure they will at some point call the current generation the "entitled and instant gratification" generation.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Icinix wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Icinix wrote...

I thought the combat was very good in DA2 - but BECAUSE I didn't need to swap as much (if ever) between the party. They generally have the intelligence to know that If I upgraded something, Id want them to use it. But sorry Heather...the combat happened too fast for my liking -

..and who complained about talking heads? I want names!

And that's half the problem for a party based CPRG. DA2 has very little tactics involved, especially when you add in the bad guys falling from the sky.

On the contrary - I liked it because of the tactics I could use WITHOUT needing to swap characters..I could see quickly who was doing AOE etc and act accordingly..with two healers I didn't need to worry about clicking between people to tell them to drink potions etc...

but yes...the bad guys falling from the sky just threw that on its head halfway through every fight..but for the first half of every fight was good

And at that point it may as well be a single character RPG and not party based. Not that you need to even worry about AOE's with DA2 since there's no friendly fire on anything but nightmare.

[tmp7704]

WilliamShatner wrote...

One of the criticisms often leveled against BioWare RPGs is the amount of talking heads dialogue.

WTH?

I've NEVER seen that criticised.

And anyone who does criticise it is an idiot.

If i recall right, there was some of that in the DAO reviews -- essentially in the sense of "Mass Effect had dialogue sequences which looked like stuff from movies, and DAO in comparison has the outdated back-and-forth talking heads sessions." It's something they've addressed with more focus on the cinematics in the DA2 dialogue scenes.

[Madmoe77]

Personally; I found it more telling that when asked what games they were currently playing it wasn't their own.

[erynnar]

Autolycus wrote...

We're seriously still discussing the dialogue? Jesus Christ...how dumb does the game need to be to please people?

We have had silent protagonists for 20+ years.....no one bothered then...no one complained about or picked the wrong dialogue options then....

And more importantly....no need for stupid little icons telling us what the sentence portrayed...but then...well...English language and reading skills have degenerated lately I guess....

This^  Why all the complaining now? I don't get it. I found DAO to be a book I could play. DA2 is a movie with interactive bits. Me? I prefer a book.

[fchopin]

Interesting read, i have to say that i liked what Mr. Gaider said.

[catofnine]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And that's half the problem for a party based CPRG. DA2 has very little tactics involved, especially when you add in the bad guys falling from the sky.

Going to disagree here, I spent more time thinking through and micromanaging encounters on nightmare for DA2 than I ever did in nightmare mode for Origins.  Had to take into account party positioning, having enough reserve abilities to counter enemy reinforcements and group synergy on a far greater level than I had ever bothered with in Origins.  DA2 doesn't put all its cards on the table with the wave combat where as in Origins you have the advantage of seeing what enemies are already there.  Loved Origins, but "tactics" there was a cake walk compared to what I've had to do to get through certain fights in DA2...as such found DA2 combat much more engrossing.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Honestly that whole Q&A makes it sound like every terrible design decision was a goal of the dev team.

You cannot cater to two vastly different audiences. It's like a juggling act. There's a 50% chance of success, 50% of failure. IMO, DA2 failed.

Which is why I wish they would stop trying to do that. Not every game needs to have a dialog wheel and a voiced protagonist like ME. Not every game needs frantic fast paced combat like ME. DAO sold tons, even with it's silent protagonist, "oudated mechanics" and classic RPG tropes. The idea that Bioware suddenly thinks it needs to make generic streamlined action RPG's for the masses in order to sell a decent amount of copies blows my mind based on not only Origin's sale numbers but the fact that every post I see on every gaming site, Bioware related or not, the majority considers DA2 a failure in just about every facet. I just don't understand the total 180 in how they want to make games now.

[erynnar]

tmp7704 wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

One of the criticisms often leveled against BioWare RPGs is the amount of talking heads dialogue.

WTH?

I've NEVER seen that criticised.

And anyone who does criticise it is an idiot.

If i recall right, there was some of that in the DAO reviews -- essentially in the sense of "Mass Effect had dialogue sequences which looked like stuff from movies, and DAO in comparison has the outdated back-and-forth talking heads sessions." It's something they've addressed with more focus on the cinematics in the DA2 dialogue scenes.

Well, if BioWare isn't going to do a customer survey, then damn me for not coming on and doing a review of DAO, and how much I prefer books to play than movies. I am not a movie goer or a TV watcher. I prefer my entertainment in my imagination.

Since they listen to reviews and now that I know that, I am on these forums, giving my, what is this? *pulls stuff out of pockets* Hmm, looks like a button, some lint, an interesting rock and a penny that isn't worth that really..damn no two cents.

[MonkeyLungs]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Genly wrote...

An interesting bit about the framed narrative: "... and also have the concept of the “unreliable narrator”—such as in The Usual Suspects where you’re not certain by the end of the tale whether the narrator was telling the truth."

Retconning has never been easier.

Yes, I've pointed this out again and again in various threads.
Now my question is:
Suppose the game had been engaging, exhausting (in a good way) and an epic experience to play. A really good game. How many of you would then - upon learning that all of it, all of what you have played with passion and immersion, is just a lie, - cheer and say "Wow, how awesome. That is really soo cool. Laidlaw is soo clever." ?

How can one NOT see that tons of things about DA2 are complete disasters? It's just mindboggling.

I really like Varric as a character and companion in the game ... I can't make myself rival him. He's my damn bro if I play DA2. However ... I strongly dislike that he is narrating the tale because of the possibilities listed in the post above.