447 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Even a crucial decision like this is just outright ignored:

Anders' line should've been "What are you doing? You're ruining the plot!" for the full funny...

[Mr.House]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David says nearly everything I would want him to say in this interview. He agrees that the game's story is more the player's story than it is the writer's story.

Given how linear the story is, and how little control the player had over Hawke's personality, is it really the "player's story"? I don't think it's the "player's story" to have a reactive protagonist who does nothing and who we have little control over when his religious beliefs and his perceptions are being dictated to us.

What game where you playing? Hawkes personality was one of the few things YOU DID have control of.

Modifié par Mr.House, 31 mai 2011 - 09:42 .

[Foolsfolly]

I hate to call David out like this but...

If you write with a single path and protagonist in mind, then those other paths will only ever feel like “extras” and you will lose the narrative thread as soon as the player deviates from the one you intended.

That's exactly how I feel about the ending of DA2. It feels like the 'correct' choice is the Templars only because then the Orisino transformation makes sense, and then Meredith's idol induced lunacy causes her to attack. It has a sense of logical flow that the Mage ending lacks. There's also that Grace mission and agreeing to hunt Blood Mages for Meredith which both make more sense if you're a pro-Templar character.

All in all, that last act makes more sense (to me at least) as a Pro-Templar. It felt like that was the intended path.

[Foolsfolly]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

::steps into the thread::

I like the dialogue wheel.

::steps back out::

God I hate opinions that vastly differ from my own.

[tallon1982]

Icinix wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...
(snip)
Even a crucial decision like this is just outright ignored:

..thats pretty amazing....

He passed on this information? Really??

What the hell..

That makes me wonder if in some stages of the game (when they were toying around with being able to save a certain parental figure) they also toyed around with being able to stop a certain inevitable event.

In which case..why did they not keep going with it?

It's called the Director's Cut that will be on sale sometime in the future. All kidding aside it's most likely stuff that wasn't finished because of time constraints. I had a feeling that we were meant to have the option of stopping certain events one way or another but instead to make it 'simple' for people who don't really play RPGs since they are so 'wordy' they stuck with a linear storyline where players are given the illusion of where choice matters. While I enjoy playing Bioware games I think DA2 was seriously incomplete. The fact is they could have made it possible to have the game branch out down different paths depending on choices made. It's been proven in another game that it is possible if given enough time to make it work. So it boils down to not having the time, the means/money or the desire to do so...That is just an assumption.

As far as the dialogue...I don't want dumbed down choices because some people can't take some time to read or figure out things on their own. This isn't a Staples store. There is no damn easy button in RPG games but I think I got proven wrong after DA2 lol

[tallon1982]

Mr.House wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David says nearly everything I would want him to say in this interview. He agrees that the game's story is more the player's story than it is the writer's story.

Given how linear the story is, and how little control the player had over Hawke's personality, is it really the "player's story"? I don't think it's the "player's story" to have a reactive protagonist who does nothing and who we have little control over when his religious beliefs and his perceptions are being dictated to us.

What game where you playing? Hawkes personality was one of the few things YOU DID have control of.

You mean we had control over the tone of Hawke's voice

[adneate]

Mr.House wrote...
What game where you playing? Hawkes personality was one of the few things YOU DID have control of.

On a strictly agumentative basis you really only have the power to choose which type of Hawke your Hawke is. Lawful Good / Boring as a bag of rocks Hawke, Always trying to be funny Hawke or jerkwad Hawke. It wasn't that much more constricting than Origins was but because Hawke only talks in paraphrases as far as the player is concerned it can certainly come across that way. I doubt it helps the perception with the massive amount of "Plot Dumb" Hawke is inflicted with and the idiot ball Hawke holds for 7 long linear years.

Modifié par adneate, 31 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

tallon1982 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...
(snip)
Even a crucial decision like this is just outright ignored:

..thats pretty amazing....

He passed on this information? Really??

What the hell..

That makes me wonder if in some stages of the game (when they were toying around with being able to save a certain parental figure) they also toyed around with being able to stop a certain inevitable event.

In which case..why did they not keep going with it?

It's called the Director's Cut that will be on sale sometime in the future. All kidding aside it's most likely stuff that wasn't finished because of time constraints. I had a feeling that we were meant to have the option of stopping certain events one way or another but instead to make it 'simple' for people who don't really play RPGs since they are so 'wordy' they stuck with a linear storyline where players are given the illusion of where choice matters. While I enjoy playing Bioware games I think DA2 was seriously incomplete. The fact is they could have made it possible to have the game branch out down different paths depending on choices made. It's been proven in another game that it is possible if given enough time to make it work. So it boils down to not having the time, the means/money or the desire to do so...That is just an assumption.

As far as the dialogue...I don't want dumbed down choices because some people can't take some time to read or figure out things on their own. This isn't a Staples store. There is no damn easy button in RPG games but I think I got proven wrong after DA2 lol

Perhaps they shouldn't rush games out in 18 months in order to actually finish them and make them not suck. Hopefully this will be the case moving forward, though with John Riccitiello and EA's track record I won't hold my breath.

[Addai]

Interesting, thanks.

The bit about Origins drawing on Song of Ice and Fire, while DA2 drew on some TV shows, explains a lot- about the story and about my own reaction to it.

Modifié par Addai67, 31 mai 2011 - 09:50 .

[Genly]

Mr.House wrote...

I think we all can agree that in DA3 let's hope the main character is not like Hawke ala normal person who was not important and was caught up in the events. I like Hawke, but I prefer Bioware keeps it fresh with the main characters, go back to something like the Warden ala a war hero.

As others have said, I wouldn't mind a character like Hawke, as long as it was consistent with the story. Throughout it all, conversations between Varric and the seeker kept suggesting how important Hawke was to the plot, even if non-intentional. But as you play out, that's not what really happens. Like I saw on another thread, probably the end of the story would have happened similarly even if Hawke had never been in Kirkwall. So, from a story point of view, why the plot was so focused on him/her?

[_Aine_]

Icinix wrote...

That makes me wonder if in some stages of the game (when they were toying around with being able to save a certain parental figure) they also toyed around with being able to stop a certain inevitable event.

That was always my supposition also.  (well, more that there were multiple endings)

True?  *shrugs* No idea.  So much leads to that end though, and would have made sense too.  

Modifié par shantisands, 31 mai 2011 - 09:56 .

[Icinix]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

tallon1982 wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...
(snip)
Even a crucial decision like this is just outright ignored:

..thats pretty amazing....

He passed on this information? Really??

What the hell..

That makes me wonder if in some stages of the game (when they were toying around with being able to save a certain parental figure) they also toyed around with being able to stop a certain inevitable event.

In which case..why did they not keep going with it?

It's called the Director's Cut that will be on sale sometime in the future. All kidding aside it's most likely stuff that wasn't finished because of time constraints. I had a feeling that we were meant to have the option of stopping certain events one way or another but instead to make it 'simple' for people who don't really play RPGs since they are so 'wordy' they stuck with a linear storyline where players are given the illusion of where choice matters. While I enjoy playing Bioware games I think DA2 was seriously incomplete. The fact is they could have made it possible to have the game branch out down different paths depending on choices made. It's been proven in another game that it is possible if given enough time to make it work. So it boils down to not having the time, the means/money or the desire to do so...That is just an assumption.

As far as the dialogue...I don't want dumbed down choices because some people can't take some time to read or figure out things on their own. This isn't a Staples store. There is no damn easy button in RPG games but I think I got proven wrong after DA2 lol

I luff you!

LOL

+1

[adneate]

Genly wrote...
So, from a story point of view, why the plot was so focused on him/her?

Because Anders was more defined than Hawke despite him being the actual protagonist of DA2 and Hawke just an extremely stupid bit player.

[tallon1982]

Coming soon to a special edition gaming keyboard ...



As far as needing ideas whatever happened to those old Choose Your Own Adventure books? Oh wait most kids today don't read *throws that idea out the window*

[Icinix]

shantisands wrote...

Icinix wrote...

That makes me wonder if in some stages of the game (when they were toying around with being able to save a certain parental figure) they also toyed around with being able to stop a certain inevitable event.

That was always my supposition also.  (well, more that there were multiple endings)

True?  *shrugs* No idea.  So much leads to that end though, and would have made sense too.  

It does give the illusion - or at least the sense that they were many things that were set to continue or evolve through the game through various dialogue and set pieces.. Also the rather sudden end to so many plots and quests, which have zero to bugger all follow up later in the game.

It does cry out time constraints - or at least I want it too - Because I cannot and WILL NOT let myself believe that a company like BioWare has suddenly decided that sprawling dynamic choice RPG's are not the way to develop their games.

[RangerSG]

Fascinating interview, I don't get the idea the story wasn't Gaider's. But I do think he had more input in it than he did with DA:O.

Also very cool to see Mr Gaider shares my love for Paradox Interactive. I prefer Europa Universalis to Victoria. But still, awesome alternate history sims that make for great writing fodder when I'm in a slump.

[tallon1982]

Autolycus wrote...

tallon1982 wrote...


Coming soon to a special edition gaming keyboard ...



As far as needing ideas whatever happened to those old Choose Your Own Adventure books? Oh wait most kids today don't read *throws that idea out the window*

WIN!

(edit...always knew you were easy Tallon) 

Just for you babe, just for you lol

[Sylvius the Mad]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David says nearly everything I would want him to say in this interview. He agrees that the game's story is more the player's story than it is the writer's story.

Given how linear the story is, and how little control the player had over Hawke's personality, is it really the "player's story"?

How well or badly DA2 did it has no bearing on how important it is in games generally.

[Atakuma]

Icinix wrote...
It does cry out time constraints - or at least I want it too - Because I cannot and WILL NOT let myself believe that a company like BioWare has suddenly decided that sprawling dynamic choice RPG's are not the way to develop their games.

Seeing as how they have never made a game with sprawling dynamic choices, I don't understand why people expected da2 to be any different.

[Dave of Canada]

Autolycus wrote...

We're seriously still discussing the dialogue? Jesus Christ...how dumb does the game need to be to please people?

We have had silent protagonists for 20+ years.....no one bothered then...no one complained about or picked the wrong dialogue options then....

I don't recall voiced protagonists existing back then, so preferences were limited. So "20+ years" ago was an entirely different time where you either enjoyed non-voiced protagonists or you didn't, there was no alternatives.

It's not "dumbing" down if somebody has a different opinion than you, sorry.

And more importantly....no need for stupid little icons telling us what the sentence portrayed...but then...well...English language and reading skills have degenerated lately I guess....

Thanks for the laugh.