128 réponses à ce sujet

[SuicidalBaby]

Gear set ups will probably be off the wall unless you can mitigate cost through prebuff.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 06 juin 2011 - 04:15 .

[tivadar27]

Secondary attributes are now lowered, so the only one that you have to meet is the Strength requirement. Mage starts out with base 10 Strength, and we can (easily) assume +4 with 2 rings, an amulet, and a belt, for 14.

Blood dragon plate: 5 points in Strength, -25HP, +1 all attributes, +24 health (net +4 HP)
Monolith's Heart: 9 points in Strength, -45HP, +34 heath, +5 health regen (net -9 HP)

That's assuming only 4 points from prebuffing, more is certainly possible with RoV and other equipment. Either way, investing at least a small amount in Strength doesn't seem like a bad idea. I believe this has been discussed before, but with life total becoming an even bigger deal with One Foot In the Grave as well as the reduced ratio, the impact may need to be re-examined.

[SuicidalBaby]

The best blood ratio still has to be determined with the new math.

[Mocker22]

So what is gonna be the norm for +Blood magic gear now I wonder. I use t use Hands f fate, Amulet of Saarebas, and 1 ring to get to 6:1 ratio. Now it seems like 4:1 might be reasonable by adding 1 more item such as a staff. It would be quite a bummer t me though to not use Malcoms Honor. Much better then something like Voracity imo.

I'm curious to see how many people end up switching from Primal to Elemental. Elementa got a nice little boost and Brittle combos are going to be much more important with stagger dmg down. On the flip side, I think Golems Fist got more useful. Pinning shot seems to be working well for setting up disorient combos and paired with golem's fist or spirirt bolt, is a nice way to take out ranged baddies or get some quick, extra dps.

[tivadar27]

Is it even worth sinking any points into ratio now (outside of those from skills), or is going for HP almost strictly better? I guess you do get slightly more "mana" through blood items (25% of total, for 200HP that's 50), but the added advantage of having more health and doing more damage with One Foot In may reduce the impact of that.

[Mocker22]

It will be interesting to see how things work out. will 4:1 be needed. Is 3:1 sufficient?....is it wrth getting only 3.5 or 3.75:1 ?

Seems like people still think Max con is going to be the way to go. I was thinking that willpower might be a little more important now, but maybe not with so many good ways to keep your health up.

[tivadar27]

Just as a point of reference, if a spell costs 60 mana (very much at the high end), no blood magic items, but both abilities, will give a 3:1 ratio and lead to a cost of 20. Using 4 slots for blood magic will give a 4:1 ratio and lead to a cost of 15... That's right around 1HP per slot you're using per spell (at the high end).

[Icy Magebane]

What a stupid idea. It frustrates me to no end when companies put out a bunch of game altering patches because they want to change the damn balance months after we've had the game in our possession. Either make it right the first time or leave it alone once it's done. I don't know how it is on PC, but on Xbox, I don't have the luxury of easily deleting patches, or even refusing them and still playing while connected to the internet. I'll just stop there before I say something really rude, but this is total bs...

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 06 juin 2011 - 08:21 .

[SuicidalBaby]

tivadar27 wrote...

Just as a point of reference, if a spell costs 60 mana (very much at the high end), no blood magic items, but both abilities, will give a 3:1 ratio and lead to a cost of 20. Using 4 slots for blood magic will give a 4:1 ratio and lead to a cost of 15... That's right around 1HP per slot you're using per spell (at the high end).

bit of advice:
look for the common denominator of the spells chosen for the build your in, not overall available spells.
take the longview, does adding another .75 per affect my duration in blood magic at this level?

[Mocker22]

Just doing a bunch of super quick math, it seems like you might be better off just ignoring the ratio and going for max damage. For most of the common spell costs 3.75 did seem to work out just as well as 4. 3 items is pretty doable, but I dunno about 4.

[tivadar27]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

tivadar27 wrote...

Just as a point of reference, if a spell costs 60 mana (very much at the high end), no blood magic items, but both abilities, will give a 3:1 ratio and lead to a cost of 20. Using 4 slots for blood magic will give a 4:1 ratio and lead to a cost of 15... That's right around 1HP per slot you're using per spell (at the high end).

bit of advice:
look for the common denominator of the spells chosen for the build your in, not overall available spells.
take the longview, does adding another .75 per affect my duration in blood magic at this level?

Actually I think there are two questions here:
1) What can the equipment be replaced with?  Obviously replacing 0.25BM Ring for 24% Electricity Damage (Ring of the Ferryman) is probably a winning proposition, assuming you can afford it (and assuming you went primal).
2) Can I last 45s in the sustained?  That's the cooldown of Grave Robber, and once you can hit that you'll probably be able to heal yourself to near 100% anyways.

I see your point, you can't just look at an individual spell in a vacuum, but I'm guessing calculating damage over time, as well as mana/hp usage over time is really the way to go.  And obviously, you'd want a buffer in terms of Grave Robber, so perhaps only using 50% or so life in the 45s.

[Tomark]

there is also a quick question about equipment gear- is it worth it to use the champion armor?

Honestly, depending on your choices robes of uncleaness (or however they are called) + boots/cowl/gloves of blood magic could be quite a bit better.

Especially if you went elemental, as the blood mage equipment tends to have +% element.

[Senior Cinco]

I've been reading through the post ( bouncing around mostly, not actually every word yet ) I'm on the 360, and haven't played in a while. The latest patch seems to have changed a lot for the BM. I have received all the extra content and bonus items ( finally ) and I'm looking forward to starting another playthrough. My last playthrough, as a BM, I dumped just enough in str, to wear armor and had a BM that was as close to the AW, that I loved, from DAO. I focused on armor that only granted +health, and completely used all the reserved mama for sustained spells. I know this has been covered in detail from the very informative guys in the form, and a great job, at that. I never wore the dresses, and had a tank that could stand in the heat of the fight with my Warrior. The latest patch looks like it lessened the requirements for Armor. So with that lowered, and nothing in Willpower, using those pts somewhere else, (like health) the spell cost should still be almost free. If I understand the changes correctly, this will make the Armored BM one bad boy / chick. In some cases stronger, and more powerful than pre patch. Am I way off on this?

[AreleX]

By the standard of being a plate-mage? Sure, I'd say so.

[Senior Cinco]

AreleX wrote...

By the standard of being a plate-mage? Sure, I'd say so.

What does that mean?  Is that like some kind of bad omen or something?

[mr_afk]

I think the strength requirements are the same so you'll still have to 'waste' points in str- and they really will be a waste as knock-back is no longer an issue. Constitution requirements will be down but constitution is somewhat useful, so I don't really think there's been too much of a change there. You should be able to equip mage equipment a lot more easily so a mixed armour build may be easier to achieve (e.g. warrior armour so you're not in a dress, and +%elemental gloves, boots and helm).

However, pumping health has an new bonus in that one-foot-in deals 100% of your health as damage. In conjunction with +%spirit damage (which I think affects one-foot-in) your high health build should dish out lots of damage via that spell.

On the other hand, bloodmage as a whole has been nerfed via haemorrhage becoming weaker- though the reduction in enemy hp may make up for it.

So I would say that there won't be too much of a change and an armoured BM will be pretty similar as before but with a new trick in their arsenal.

[mr_afk]

haha i think he's referring to how warrior armour doesn't actually have a higher armour-rating than robes and misses out on the huge +%elemental damage. If you're going for a tank mage build (what you seem to be doing) then it's not such an issue, but for glass cannon dps builds...

The only thing that can almost keep up with an elemental mage is a rogue-armoured crit-mage build. Even still it probably loses out in terms of elemental damage (but wins in terms of spirit/physical damage)

Modifié par mr_afk, 11 juin 2011 - 05:28 .

[AreleX]

Senior Cinco wrote...

AreleX wrote...

By the standard of being a plate-mage? Sure, I'd say so.

What does that mean?  Is that like some kind of bad omen or something?

I couldn't tell if you meant 'plate-mage will be better than robe-mage at some points', or 'plate-mage will be better than it was before at some points', so I wanted to highlight which interpretation I was addressing.

My opinion on plate-mages are a different story, though. Many a war has been waged here over mages wearing plate, and it's been far too long since the last.

*throws rock at senior cinco, screams 'robes for life'*

[Senior Cinco]

I haven't really sat down and crunched any numbers. It has been a while, and it seem that the few pts invested in Str, that would normally have been put in Cons, would offset for the better by allowing you equip armor with a high +health. In the end, giving higher health overall, as well as the armor value.

[Senior Cinco]

AreleX wrote...

Senior Cinco wrote...

AreleX wrote...

By the standard of being a plate-mage? Sure, I'd say so.

What does that mean?  Is that like some kind of bad omen or something?

I couldn't tell if you meant 'plate-mage will be better than robe-mage at some points', or 'plate-mage will be better than it was before at some points', so I wanted to highlight which interpretation I was addressing.

My opinion on plate-mages are a different story, though. Many a war has been waged here over mages wearing plate, and it's been far too long since the last.

*throws rock at senior cinco, screams 'robes for life'*

HA! I see..Well I love you too..

[AreleX]

mr afk is actually right for a change. By going plate over robe, you lose out on gigantic +%elemental damage modifiers, in exchange for a measly few hit points more. I haven't crunched any numbers either because I can't do math, but I do know that +24% damage on EVERY element > +50 health.

I'm not knocking you for wanting to do it, you can play however you like, do what you enjoy, but I'm saying from a purely 'this is better, this is worse' standpoint, that what you get out of wearing plate doesn't even begin to measure up to what you lose out on.

[mesmerizedish]

Sounds like some peeps are asking for robes to have a lot less armor. I should totes do that. *screams "PC Master Race forever!"*

[Senior Cinco]

I see your point. But what if your mage wasn't toned to the elements. Does any new effects from the patch help out the other trees? That is to say support your rival 'Plate Mage' lol or has/is elemental magic the breasts and beer now? post patch...

[mr_afk]

heh, what are you talking about? I'm always right- except when I'm not.

Anyway, a non-elemental mage will benefit more from crit-chance/crit-damage in terms of a dps perspective. I mean, since when did pumping health increase damage potential? haha.
Though potentially getting a high end +%spirit robe late-game may help more now that the willpower requirements are down and physical damage (e.g. haemorrhage) isn't quite as amazing.

But if you're not concerned about damage and are more about getting in amongst it like a quasi-warrior then I would say that warrior armour could have some benefits.

[AreleX]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Sounds like some peeps are asking for robes to have a lot less armor. I should totes do that. *screams "PC Master Race forever!"*

Nonsense, I see no PC players innovating within the game, only changing the game to make up for their shortcomings! (also making the characters naked and changing their stubble to match their hair, I hear)

The true master race consists of AreleX and AreleX fans, regardless of platform, gender, or creed.

mr afk can come too, i guess, but only if he gives me shoulder massages and refers to himself in third person as 'the worst player'

<3

i love you all