208 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Oblivious wrote...

OP needs to accept what the rest of the community has long ago accepted. The scene was a failure on the writer's fault for making Shepard act like a drunk idiot. The VS acted the same way I would if the person I was sleeping with (allegedly) faked her death then showed up 2 years later as a member of the Taliban. It's Shep's fault for not managing the situation better

+1

[Made Nightwing]

^This.

[vanslyke85]

I wasn't sleeping with her, I said I never romanced her. She was just a normal squad mate and the only one to act that way. everyone needs to calm down lol. if you dont like the thread then dont post in it. mutts.  Im new to the ME world and didn't extensively research all the forum topics to see whats already been discussed.  my bad...

Modifié par vanslyke85, 01 juin 2011 - 11:53 .

[Heimdall]

I was under the impression that Ash didn't know Shepard had been dead and assumed he had been alive the entire time working for a terrorist organization and not told her. Of course she would be angry.

The scene doesn't give Shepard an oportunity to explain though.  It's Shepard and or the Writer's fault, but the VS is least to blame.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 01 juin 2011 - 01:26 .

[Heimdall]

Beside, she sent an apology email even if you didn't romance her. All is good.

[JamieCOTC]

Oblivious wrote...

OP needs to accept what the rest of the community has long ago accepted. The scene was a failure on the writer's fault for making Shepard act like a drunk idiot. The VS acted the same way I would if the person I was sleeping with (allegedly) faked her death then showed up 2 years later as a member of the Taliban. It's Shep's fault for not managing the situation better

+2

Both reunion scenes (Ash/Kaidan and Liara) were pretty screwed up on Shepard's side of things.  At least they fixed it w/ Liara in LotSB.  I imagine the same will be true of Ash in ME3. 

[Fiery Phoenix]

iakus wrote...

Yeah I forgive Ash

The writers of that scene I'll need some more time on...

This and what Oblivious said.

P.S. I seem to be one of the few who were relieved by that email post-Horizon. Honestly, from people's reactions regarding the scene, it doesn't look like many bothered reading the email at all.

[ADLegend21]

vanslyke85 wrote...

What do you guys think??

After playing ME2 and seeing how Ash acted when seeing me (I let Kaidan die every time) there is no way I will be romancing her in ME3 at all.  What in the hell did she expect Shepherd to do after he DIED?  Come back to life for the sole purpose of finding her.  After Cerberus miraculously brought him back and nobody would give any info on where Ash was, there was nothing to do but prepare for the reapers.  Not waste time searching every planet in every star system for her.  If she's so obsessed with the military and all that garbage she should understand priorities a little better.  She'll be a welcome squadmember for ME3 but I won't be over friendly with her.  unless she looks better than Miranda that is...

I think she should kick you to the curb anyway. her first words to all your sheps should be:
"We're done, Im already with someone else."

[Someone With Mass]

I blame it on the ****ty writing.

[ADLegend21]

Aslo Horizon was no one's fault. Ashley and Kidan are probably spectre's by then (if not they're spectre's after that) and they wouldn't ahve joined shepard anyway. The neutral options ahve Shepard tell the VS everything "cerberus brought me back to life, I'm trying to stop the collectors, The alliance isn't doing anything about it so Cerberus is." the VS doesnt have to join Shepard since theyve got their own mission.

[Odoyle]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I was under the impression that Ash didn't know Shepard had been dead and assumed he had been alive the entire time working for a terrorist organization and not told her. Of course she would be angry.

The scene doesn't give Shepard an oportunity to explain though.  It's Shepard and or the Writer's fault, but the VS is least to blame.

The part where she says "I thought you were dead. We all did." kinda blows your theory out of the water :happy:

[Clonedzero]

yeah ashley acted like a big ol' B on horizon but meh, i can deal with it. i generally RP my shepard as taking that convo as "we're over".

but im hoping for a neat little love triangle between shep, miranda and ashley.

im actually curious what they'll do with ashley ability-wise? she was a tank in ME1 she's damn near impossible to kill late game. so is she gonna be super tough in ME3? or more geared towards killing dudes basically, is she gonna have a zaeed like soldier build or a grunt like soldier build?

[Clonedzero]

though its a bit disgusting all the VS fans rushed in here to post face palms and all that other crap. grow up, just because someone disagrees about a character doesnt mean you gotta act that way lol

[Darkhour]

When Ash shows up in her skin tight body suit, high heels, ample cleavage and tight little gymnast ass that you can bounce a quarter off of the OP will be back with her.

[jamesp81]

vanslyke85 wrote...

What do you guys think??

After playing ME2 and seeing how Ash acted when seeing me (I let Kaidan die every time) there is no way I will be romancing her in ME3 at all.  What in the hell did she expect Shepherd to do after he DIED?  Come back to life for the sole purpose of finding her.  After Cerberus miraculously brought him back and nobody would give any info on where Ash was, there was nothing to do but prepare for the reapers.  Not waste time searching every planet in every star system for her.  If she's so obsessed with the military and all that garbage she should understand priorities a little better.  She'll be a welcome squadmember for ME3 but I won't be over friendly with her.  unless she looks better than Miranda that is...

When she saw you, you were working for TERRORISTS.  Someone who is a loyal soldier might take exception to that.

The only thing wrong with the Horizon scene was that Shepard's lines proved his herp to derp ratio was well out of balance.

[Heimdall]

Odoyle wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

I was under the impression that Ash didn't know Shepard had been dead and assumed he had been alive the entire time working for a terrorist organization and not told her. Of course she would be angry.

The scene doesn't give Shepard an oportunity to explain though.  It's Shepard and or the Writer's fault, but the VS is least to blame.

The part where she says "I thought you were dead. We all did." kinda blows your theory out of the water :happy:

  Not at all.  She thought Shepard was dead, now she knows Shepard was not.  She does not or have any reason to expect that Shepard was actually dead but then ressurected, so she assumes that he was alive the whole time and didn't tell her.  That she thought Shepard was dead is part of my theory.

[whywhywhywhy]

V-rex wrote...

I know these threads are bad for me but I keep on posting in them.
They're like a drug.

Anyway:
Frankly I'm not surprised Ashley responded the way she did. She's always been a woman of strong ethics and often puts emotion ahead of logic, she was shocked and saddened and confused by seeing Shepard return from the grave and shocked even more to see him working for a terrorist organization.
I understand why she was mad.

I don't LIKE the scene at all because it suffers from some of the most god awful writing in human history, but I understand why she reacted the way she did. Frankly the only emotion I felt when she left was sadness because I didn't want her to leave, not anger that she dared to disagree with me.

I've heard an argument on the Ashley thread that I actually liked by the way so I'm going to say it:

People argue that Ashley doesn't care about Shepard because she didn't empathise or try to understand or appreciate his situation. Well, that can be flipped around the other way too. If Shepard really cared for her, he would try to understand how difficult and confusing all this would be for her, not get angry and resentful because she didn't agree with him.

I think the problem is the game doesn't give you any real options after 2 years who comes to a judgement about the other after a 2minute convo with someone they really cared about ?  Sheperd should have been able to pull her to the side, send the teammates away and talk it out, even if she was so angry it came to blows (her hitting you, punches not smacks)  Your sheperd stands there and lets her walk away when you need to have a real conversation.  Heck mix things up real good if she's your LI you should have had the option of leaving with her (making the game harder) 

Shep: Ash Cerebus is the only one investigating the missing colonies.
Ashley: But Cerebus you saw what they did blah blah blah
Shep:  I just want to save people ash, if you can get the alliance to do the same I'll walk away with you right now.

I would have taken that option, I imagine miranda pulling a gun on you though.

[Heimdall]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

V-rex wrote...

I know these threads are bad for me but I keep on posting in them.
They're like a drug.

Anyway:
Frankly I'm not surprised Ashley responded the way she did. She's always been a woman of strong ethics and often puts emotion ahead of logic, she was shocked and saddened and confused by seeing Shepard return from the grave and shocked even more to see him working for a terrorist organization.
I understand why she was mad.

I don't LIKE the scene at all because it suffers from some of the most god awful writing in human history, but I understand why she reacted the way she did. Frankly the only emotion I felt when she left was sadness because I didn't want her to leave, not anger that she dared to disagree with me.

I've heard an argument on the Ashley thread that I actually liked by the way so I'm going to say it:

People argue that Ashley doesn't care about Shepard because she didn't empathise or try to understand or appreciate his situation. Well, that can be flipped around the other way too. If Shepard really cared for her, he would try to understand how difficult and confusing all this would be for her, not get angry and resentful because she didn't agree with him.

I think the problem is the game doesn't give you any real options after 2 years who comes to a judgement about the other after a 2minute convo with someone they really cared about ?  Sheperd should have been able to pull her to the side, send the teammates away and talk it out, even if she was so angry it came to blows (her hitting you, punches not smacks)  Your sheperd stands there and lets her walk away when you need to have a real conversation.  Heck mix things up real good if she's your LI you should have had the option of leaving with her (making the game harder) 

Shep: Ash Cerebus is the only one investigating the missing colonies.
Ashley: But Cerebus you saw what they did blah blah blah
Shep:  I just want to save people ash, if you can get the alliance to do the same I'll walk away with you right now.

I would have taken that option, I imagine miranda pulling a gun on you though.

  That is the problem, the game doesn't give you a decent chance to explain yourself or even tell her that you couldn't tell her about being alive because you were incapacitated.  Granted I don't think that reply would work.  She would tell you the Cerbreus is putting the wool over your eyes.

[vanslyke85]

Ok so I'll take it that they slacked on the writing for this part.  unfortunate as it's ash's big scene in ME2.  I liked her up till then.  And after reading someones post about after she saw him alive she would assume he'd been fine that whole time and hadn't tried to contact her.  But yea there definitely should have been way more explanation options, although they probably wanted it like this for ME3...we'll see.

[Heimdall]

vanslyke85 wrote...

Ok so I'll take it that they slacked on the writing for this part.  unfortunate as it's ash's big scene in ME2.  I liked her up till then.  And after reading someones post about after she saw him alive she would assume he'd been fine that whole time and hadn't tried to contact her.  But yea there definitely should have been way more explanation options, although they probably wanted it like this for ME3...we'll see.

Maybe she'll beg forgiveness

[Siansonea]

I blame Horizon on Shepard's Cerberus control chip. Kaidan and Ashley are perfectly justified in their extreme prejudice toward Cerberus—an attitude that Shepard SHOULD share. The fact that Shepard would even CONSIDER working with Cerberus flies in the face of everything Shepard stood for in the first game, especially after so little effort to find alternative means to address the Collector threat. And then after TIM basically engineers the attack on Horizon, Shepard SHOULD have said FU to Cerberus and taken the Normandy SR2 to the Alliance. But Shepard just plods along with TIM's plans without much objection at all. Kaidan and Ashley have to be thinking all sorts of things when they run into Zombie Shepard on Horizon—is this really even Shepard? Is it a clone? Is Shepard even all there? Let's face it, coming back from the dead is a pretty big pill to swallow, and Shepard breezes past it as if it was a commonplace procedure.

But the OPs response is pretty typical. Heaven forbid characters actually challenge Shepard. Only characters who basically go along with whatever Shepard says are worthwhile, because how dare anyone call Shepard on his/her BS. People never even consider the idea that they might be in the wrong.<_<

I loved the moment in Lair Of The Shadow Broker when Tela Vasir calls Shepard out for working with Cerberus—I wish there could have been more moments like that in the game. Shepard deserves to stand trial in ME3, not for that Arrival business, but for going against everything the Alliance AND the Council stands for by working with Cerberus.

[alperez]

As others have said the writing of the scene on horizon is badly done, they wanted to create a reason for why the VS wouldn't come on the mission and in the end its as bad as the reason they used for Liara not to come on the mission.

The difference is that at least with Liara there is some sense of a scene being played out fully wheras the horizon one looks half finished, Shepards reaction in the scene was stupid, at no point can you even attempt to justify things in a way that could make sense so instead of blaming Shepard people immediately blame the VS.

To me though the biggest problem of the whole situation was the fact that Tali and Garrus just blindly follow and only raise a small question about Shepard working for cerberus or being dead for 2 years. This makes the horizon scene that much more pathetic because it paints those 2 as more loyal to shepard than the VS. which is incredibly sloppy writing.

As a serving alliance soldier on a particular mission for the VS to just abandon everything to join up with shepard would be treason, add in the fact that shepard is working with a terrorist organisation and that becomes even worse. When you add in hurt feelings and a feeling of being abandoned by shepard on top of this the VS's emotional response on horizon does at least make some sense. What doesn't though is how shepard tries to explain why working for cerberus is actually the right call and why the Vs. should rejoin and help.

As for those who keep going on and saying that's it i'm done with the VS or they can rot as far as i care well you must have an interesting social life if when someone disagrees with you or doesn't just jump because you say so your reaction is that's it i'm done with you.

Even though its badly written and badly played out horizon actually at least shows characters staying loyal to themselves and standing up for their own principles, something that shepard fails to do continously in me2.

[Heimdall]

Siansonea II wrote...

I blame Horizon on Shepard's Cerberus control chip. Kaidan and Ashley are perfectly justified in their extreme prejudice toward Cerberus—an attitude that Shepard SHOULD share. The fact that Shepard would even CONSIDER working with Cerberus flies in the face of everything Shepard stood for in the first game, especially after so little effort to find alternative means to address the Collector threat. And then after TIM basically engineers the attack on Horizon, Shepard SHOULD have said FU to Cerberus and taken the Normandy SR2 to the Alliance. But Shepard just plods along with TIM's plans without much objection at all. Kaidan and Ashley have to be thinking all sorts of things when they run into Zombie Shepard on Horizon—is this really even Shepard? Is it a clone? Is Shepard even all there? Let's face it, coming back from the dead is a pretty big pill to swallow, and Shepard breezes past it as if it was a commonplace procedure.

But the OPs response is pretty typical. Heaven forbid characters actually challenge Shepard. Only characters who basically go along with whatever Shepard says are worthwhile, because how dare anyone call Shepard on his/her BS. People never even consider the idea that they might be in the wrong.<_<

I loved the moment in Lair Of The Shadow Broker when Tela Vasir calls Shepard out for working with Cerberus—I wish there could have been more moments like that in the game. Shepard deserves to stand trial in ME3, not for that Arrival business, but for going against everything the Alliance AND the Council stands for by working with Cerberus.

  The differance is that Shepard is never given a chance to explain on horizon. Still, what would running to the alliance accomplish?  You think they would suddenly throw all resources behind Shepard and aid him?  No, they would likely incarcerate him for his connections to Cerberus and highly suspicious story of coming back from the dead in all likelihood.  Meanwhile, colonies are still disappearing.  Granted, Shepard should still have put up more of a fight about working for Cerberus, especialy Sole Survivor Shepard.  That's purely bad writing there.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 02 juin 2011 - 02:25 .

[ladyvader]

Lord Aesir wrote...

Beside, she sent an apology email even if you didn't romance her. All is good.

I have never got a message from the VS surivor if I was in a relastionship with Liara in ME.  I only got that message if they were my LI.  

I don't blame them for their reaction.  Shepard was MIA or KIA and everyone on the Normandy knew Shapard got spaced.  Mourning is rough and seeing the person you've been mourning alive would be a shock.  Espeically since Shep is working with Cerberus.  I just wanted the option to say, "I don't trust Cerberus" when both VS and Anderson said that Cerberus can't be trusted.   Or and "I know".  

In the one game I romanced Ash, I romanced Jack in ME2, so I can't wait to see what happens with that.     Fun time indeed.  

[Siansonea]

I had a HUGE problem with Tali going along with Shepard in ME2. I mean, Cerberus is second only to the geth as far as quarian enemies go, and Shepard even has a geth on the Cerberus ship. Tali should only agree to leave with Shepard if she's exiled anyway—because if she wasn't already up on charges for Rael'Zorah's stupidity (so much for protecting your daughter from "political blowback" you idiot quarian) she would probably be called into question for serving on a Cerberus vessel with Shepard. Tali's characterization in ME2 seems to have been written from the standpoint of Agrees With Shepard, and nothing else seems to matter. And Garrus is the same way, but rules don't matter to Garrus. He's also pretty estranged from the greater turian society. So Garrus' compliance makes some sense. I did like the fact that Liara didn't just grab her purse and follow Shepard to the Normandy dock at Nos Astra, that she had her own thing going on, and that Shepard wasn't the only important thing in her life. What I didn't care for was that Liara's devotion to Shepard (and Tali's, and Garrus') is independent of Shepard's treatment of her. My Infiltrator waited until after Virmire to get Liara, and after she did her Shiala number on Shepard, he didn't really use her or talk to her again. But she was just as "oh Shepard!" as she was for my Liaramancer Vanguard and Adept characters. Come ON.