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[BurningArmor]

Boy, has this thread gone off track...

I think Shepard would have realized that Ash and Kaiden are people of strong emotion had it been written better.  Shepard would have gotten over it quickly had it just been Ash or Kaiden cutting on Shepard's decisions since the spacing.  At least my paragon Shepards have valued Ash and Kaiden's thoughts in the past (ME1).  Shepard might have at least had a better chance to tell his freinds what was up in his life. 

Instead, they also had this creep there named Delan that continued to insult everything Shepard had ever believed in.  By the time Delan was done, I as the player just wanted to take Delan to the Collector ship, and say, "Hey guys, you left one behind."  

Shepard had saved 2/3 of the citizens of the Horizon colony.  By the end of the scene, Shepard was feeling that if he ever has an opportunity to return to Horizon, It would be too soon, and Ash (Kaiden) had moved on.

Renewing relations in ME3?  I don't think that would be Shepard's first chioce.  Of course, I did not think working for Cerberus would be such a great idea either.  It happened though.   

It would be good to see that Ash (Kaiden) had spent their time preparing the Alliance for what is to come.  Ash had related a fear in ME1 that her rifle would be useless in a shooting war with the Reapers.  Maybe she was building her own capabilities by becoming an artillaryman (thus part of the reason she was on Horizon setting up Guardian Cannon) or better yet tanks.  Kaiden with his biotics I think might do great things with a biotic commando unit using heavy weapons if he is the one among the living.

Will there be time for such activities as romance in ME3?  Hard to say.  I guess my final feeling is wait and see.


 

[TheRevanchist]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]kylecouch wrote...

And by "exposeing" these unborn children to eezo...you lose more lives to cancer and whatever else it causes then you save by having a few extra biotics around. Also for the record... [/quote]
I did explain that by creating human biotic we can gain more worlds to colonize, rigth? You're telling me you wouldn't trade those unborn children for entire planets for the human race?
Besides, as time goes one we'll be able to diminish the risks involved.



[quote]ALL Husks were once organic lifeforms...they can't just be mass produced on an assembly line to be used as shock troops unless you have a whole field of Dragon's Teeth to sacrifice people to the cause.  [/quote]
I distinctly remember figthing hordes of Husks. So, instead of just killing them, let's capture them.
We still get our shock troops and we didn't sacrifice anyone in the process.



[quote]Clearly they don't want Shepard dead? ME3's calling...it wants to speak to you...[/quote]
Actually, it's for you. It's saying that we don't yet know why Cerberus is after Shepard or what they want to do with him.



[quote]all they know is that Shepard blew up a Mass Relay and killed 300,000 people....which alone without context sounds like terrorism...so a trial I think is being leanient.[/quote]
Actually, they do. Shepard wrote a report and at least Admiral Hackett believes in Shepard.
Obviously, they'll have to call Shepard a liar and punish him in order to improve human-batarian relation.
I'm not saying that I don't agree with the trial because, even tough it was the only way to stop the Reapers, Shepard had no authority to do what he did. However, this proves that the Alliance doesn't has Shepard's back.

[quote]Yes...Shepard was right about Saren...however that was supported by undenyable evidence...He was right about the Geth attack on the Citadel...but again theres evidence due to the Geth being all over the place in Council Space through-out...Not to mention two previous assaults on colonys and the discovery of a top seceret base with a Krogan army. 

However...Shepard has NEVER been able to actually PROVE the Reaper's exsist...from their perspective hes just running around like Paul Reveir screaming "The Reaper's are Coming The Reaper's are Coming!!" However he has nothing to actually PROVE this...if he did the Council and Allience would be MORE then happy to do everything in their power to take precautions. 
[/quote]

That shows how close-minded the Council and the Alliance are. I understand why they don't want to believe the Reapers exist, I really do.
However, at the end of the day, it's Cerberus who was willing to act and take a risk in case Shepard's warning were true.
I also understand that Cerberus is a clandestine organization and thus, not responsible for the lifes of billions, but I still respect Cerberus a lot more than the Council or Alliance. 

[quote]if the Asari Counsilor would just mind meld with Shepard all of this would be avoided, but sadly the logical option isn't available. 
[/quote]
It wouldn't help. The only reason Liara was able to make sense of the vision was because she spent over 50 years studying the Protheans.



[quote]if your willing to  just forgo ALL ethics and morals to achive progress what is the point of fighting? If you use the methods of your enemies in order to defeat your enemies your no better than them.[/quote]

I agree. It migth surprise you but I always destroy the Base.



[quote]The Allience "abadoning" those colonists? I beg to differ...they deliberatly LEFT The Allience because they don't "like how they do things". [/quote]
Even if they did, they are still human. If the Alliance is not willing to defy the Council and enter the Termynus System, that's what Cerberus is for. Just accept their help.



[quote]The Allience has no obligation to assist people who want nothing to do with them, however they attempted to help Horizen regardless.[/quote]
 A few turrets that can't shoot straigth and a soldier. And only because Cerberus let out the rumour that Shepard would be on the colony soon.
Forgive me if I'm not impressed.



[quote]Not to mention the Allience investigates every single attacked colony trying to figure out wtf is going on. The Allience does not act because they don't know where to start...Cerberus however does...and absolutely refuses to tell The Allience any damn thing, despite the fact they have spies in every level of The Allience government (or so they claim). Also they don't "Shoot Shepard down". Shepard didn't actually bring Veetor's data with him to prove any of it. So again it falls on a lack of proof.[/quote]
That's probrably because the Alliance has the bad habit of shooting on sigth when it involves Cerberus. Miranda says it herself in the beginning of the game, the Alliance or the Council would never accept Cerberus's help.
Even when proof has been provided and there are dozens of Collector corpses lying around in Horizon, the VS is much more willing to believe that Cerberus is working with the Collectors and, by extension, the Reapers.
No, sorry. Cerberus is not the friendliest group around but this is ridiculous.
[/quote]

The pathetic amount of biotics gained with this method is hardly substanial enough to make that kind of difference. There are different ways to persue human biotics...for examples...ALL Asari are naturally born with biotic abilites...why? why not study Asari DNA and find out WHY this is the case and try to synsithis whatever that is and add it to our own genetic struture? Should that be successful we would not waste ANY human life and have MANY more biotics instead of just a lucky few. Instead of hireing backroom Turian mercs actually get some Asari to give PROPER advice on the subject?

I think it's abit more complicated them simply "captureing a bunch of husks". Those husks would need to be re programmed to reject the Reaper's Will...which to my knowledge we have no idea how to do. Because I doubt the Reapers would make a husk that easy to manipulate since until this cycle husks were their primary infantry unit.

the reasons may be unknown...but they are hunting him...which was my point.

Actually trying to improve relations with the Batarians is a very wise move. Like Hackett said, a war with the Batarians cannot be risked with the Reaper's on their doorstep. The trial is probably nothing more then a facade to fool the batarians into thinking The Allience is handleing the issue...when in fact they aren't going to do crap to Shepard, afterall I find it HIGHLY unlikely Hackett is the only Allience offical who believes Shepard. Even more so considering Shepard has NEVER spoken to Hackett about the Reaper's yet still believes him. Also consider that Hackett did NOT take the report back with him to Allience Command...and whos to say Hackett just went back and squeeled on him? after-all Shadow Broker proves he refuses to let the Allience interfear with your mission. There is nothing to suggest the entire Allience knows the details of the event yet.

Perhaps...however Cerberus isn't as restricted as they are...so they are actually able to take action without upsetting TOO MANY people...The Council on the other hand does not have that luxery...they risk triggering massive civil wars and orbital bombardments if they ****** off too many people with their decions. The Council cannot aford to take action without evidence, keep in mind the evidence also serves as a way to justify their actions to everyone under their jurisdition so they don;t seem like polititions fabricating lies to grab more influcence and such. While it may also be abit of willful ignorance that too is understandable...because if it's true then after seeing Soverign they would probably feel pretty damn screwed.

The Council has been to Ilos since ME1...they've seen the Protheans statues they know what they looked like. It wouldn't take a scientist to see it's images of Protheans being butchered by robotic entities. On top of that the end of the visions reveals Nazzara, who the entire Council has seen personally as well as Ilos itself...which they know is were both the Conduit is as well as knowing it was a major Prothean planet. Also since Shepard has the Cifer (yes I know its spelled wrong) she would be able to understand it as Shepard and Liara does, which would have been just a big scramble of nonesense to Liara without it.

I didn't say the help was impressive...nor that they deserved a medal for it. But again...they are not obligated to help people who don't want their help. So why would they waste their GOOD weapons on people who don't like them? thats just bad business sense. Besides those guns prove to be very effective once calibrated correctly, which to be fair no one on that colony is actually trained to calibrate...if only they had Garrus from the get go....sigh.

Again the VS's dialogue is the falt of the "writers" of that entire scene who hopefuly was fired afterwards for their shoddy quality or at the very least heavily repremanded. Aside from that The Allience has good reason to shoot on sight as far as Cerberus is concerned, afterall they DID kill an Admiral...I'm sure he wasn't the first either. Aside from that who said that Cerberus couldn't use their "endless" contacts with the Allience to pass the info along disguised as an Allience intel report? For all of TIM's boasting about being everywhere he sure didn't make much effort to let The Allience know whats going on...pluse they might not hate him as much if he would actually TRY to cooperate with them instead of blowing them off like that...he makes no attempts to repair their relations with them and instead just does things that anger them further without a second thought.

[TheRevanchist]

BurningArmor wrote...

Boy, has this thread gone off track...

I think Shepard would have realized that Ash and Kaiden are people of strong emotion had it been written better.  Shepard would have gotten over it quickly had it just been Ash or Kaiden cutting on Shepard's decisions since the spacing.  At least my paragon Shepards have valued Ash and Kaiden's thoughts in the past (ME1).  Shepard might have at least had a better chance to tell his freinds what was up in his life. 

Instead, they also had this creep there named Delan that continued to insult everything Shepard had ever believed in.  By the time Delan was done, I as the player just wanted to take Delan to the Collector ship, and say, "Hey guys, you left one behind."  

Shepard had saved 2/3 of the citizens of the Horizon colony.  By the end of the scene, Shepard was feeling that if he ever has an opportunity to return to Horizon, It would be too soon, and Ash (Kaiden) had moved on.

Renewing relations in ME3?  I don't think that would be Shepard's first chioce.  Of course, I did not think working for Cerberus would be such a great idea either.  It happened though.   

It would be good to see that Ash (Kaiden) had spent their time preparing the Alliance for what is to come.  Ash had related a fear in ME1 that her rifle would be useless in a shooting war with the Reapers.  Maybe she was building her own capabilities by becoming an artillaryman (thus part of the reason she was on Horizon setting up Guardian Cannon) or better yet tanks.  Kaiden with his biotics I think might do great things with a biotic commando unit using heavy weapons if he is the one among the living.

Will there be time for such activities as romance in ME3?  Hard to say.  I guess my final feeling is wait and see.


 

Personally my Shepard hasn't moved on...it hasn't BEEN two years for him...my Shepard was heartbroken at the end of Horizen...he felt like a complete failure in every respect thanks to her and that a** hole Delan. However Shepard continued to tell himself that there was still hope...afterall loved ones don't always get along. Then the fateful Email afterwards...that was all the proof he needed...the window was not totaly closed in his eyes and he was determined to survive the Suicide Mission in order to return to her side...and make up for all the pain and sorrow his absence has caused for her. To meet her again in private and let her vent all her rage and grief so afterwards he can take the time to explain the whole story to her. She is half his motivation to stop the Reaper's and he refuses to fail, because he refuses to let her suffer anymore.

[Raanz]

My post is to address the OP's question:

Ash has always been my first choice if I wanted a LI in the game. I do have a couple of Sheps that chose another paths (hence the reason for my sig), so I know how you feel.
My Liara Shep felt the same way when she basically ignored MyShep when he finally visited her on Illium...making him do mundane hacking jobs to help her with her vendetta against the SB who had taken her "friend" hostage. She had basically told MyShep that she had been pining over Feron for almost 2 years now. Wow...and here I thought MyShep and her had something "special".
Anyway it's all good.
I seriously thought you had a decent comment to begin with, then you followed it up with a trollish comment about a picture someone posted, so that convinced me you were fishing. Kudos to you, you succeeded by getting over 7 pages of responses.

[vanslyke85]

Raanz wrote...

My post is to address the OP's question:

Ash has always been my first choice if I wanted a LI in the game. I do have a couple of Sheps that chose another paths (hence the reason for my sig), so I know how you feel.
My Liara Shep felt the same way when she basically ignored MyShep when he finally visited her on Illium...making him do mundane hacking jobs to help her with her vendetta against the SB who had taken her "friend" hostage. She had basically told MyShep that she had been pining over Feron for almost 2 years now. Wow...and here I thought MyShep and her had something "special".
Anyway it's all good.
I seriously thought you had a decent comment to begin with, then you followed it up with a trollish comment about a picture someone posted, so that convinced me you were fishing. Kudos to you, you succeeded by getting over 7 pages of responses.

Agreed, looking back on it Shep wasn't treated too great at the start of ME2 by the two LI's from ME1.  Obviously the scene with Ash on Horizon and then Liara basically saying I've got more important things to do soooo if you wanna see me here's some errands you can run for me, thanks doll, I'll think about if I wanna be with you or not.  It's been 2 years...

[Homebound]

No chance of Ashley coming back in MY playthrough. I nuked her.
Also, to the Ash fans, instead of trolling, how about posting WHY you see it that way?

[vanslyke85]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Aslo Horizon was no one's fault. Ashley and Kidan are probably spectre's by then (if not they're spectre's after that) and they wouldn't ahve joined shepard anyway. The neutral options ahve Shepard tell the VS everything "cerberus brought me back to life, I'm trying to stop the collectors, The alliance isn't doing anything about it so Cerberus is." the VS doesnt have to join Shepard since theyve got their own mission.

I in no means expected them to drop everything and come with me.  I never asked her to join me anyways.  This thread wasn't about why she didn't come with me...but why she was such a cold ***ch about me being dead for 2 years.

[Antivenger]

vanslyke85 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Aslo Horizon was no one's fault. Ashley and Kidan are probably spectre's by then (if not they're spectre's after that) and they wouldn't ahve joined shepard anyway. The neutral options ahve Shepard tell the VS everything "cerberus brought me back to life, I'm trying to stop the collectors, The alliance isn't doing anything about it so Cerberus is." the VS doesnt have to join Shepard since theyve got their own mission.

I in no means expected them to drop everything and come with me.  I never asked her to join me anyways.  This thread wasn't about why she didn't come with me...but why she was such a cold ***ch about me being dead for 2 years.

She, and Kaidan. They, were not.

Browse for fan fiction if you want everyone kissing the ground Shepard walks on.

Also, replace the bolded/underlined word with 'trust' and the italicised word with 'a traitor' if you want an explanation. You have metagame knowledge. They, however cannot open up the mass effect wiki and check whether Shepard was dead or alive or is being mind controlled.

Modifié par Antivenger, 04 juin 2011 - 10:49 .

[TheRevanchist]

Antivenger wrote...

vanslyke85 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

Aslo Horizon was no one's fault. Ashley and Kidan are probably spectre's by then (if not they're spectre's after that) and they wouldn't ahve joined shepard anyway. The neutral options ahve Shepard tell the VS everything "cerberus brought me back to life, I'm trying to stop the collectors, The alliance isn't doing anything about it so Cerberus is." the VS doesnt have to join Shepard since theyve got their own mission.

I in no means expected them to drop everything and come with me.  I never asked her to join me anyways.  This thread wasn't about why she didn't come with me...but why she was such a cold ***ch about me being dead for 2 years.

She, and Kaidan. They, were not.

Browse for fan fiction if you want everyone kissing the ground Shepard walks on.

Also, replace the bolded/underlined word with trust if you want an explanation.

or play DA2

[DPSSOC]

I actually liked the VS response because it felt more natural to me. Everyone else just seems to accept Shepard's return without question and it just doesn't feel right. I understand everyone accepting that you are you and even that some of them join you but with 3 exceptions nobody knows even vague details of Shep's resurrection and none of them ask about it. Garrus especially should have had a similar reaction, "Where have you been, what have you been doing, why didn't you bring me along?" These are understandable questions to ask but no one does; no wonder Shep can't come up with an intelligent answer when confronted by the VS.

Here's hopin' we get a chance to explain things better, if the VS after having time to process Shep's return, maybe talk to Anderson, is still angry about my absence and association with Cerberus and taking it out on me then I will drop them like a bad habit, but I'm still going to give them that chance; they've earned it.

[vanslyke85]

Ok I just replayed the Horizon mission and It's not as bad as I remember but Shepherd does give a response to her when she says he turned his back on everything and everyone. Shep says I'm not a traitor. You know me Ash, I'd only do this for the right reasons. She takes it personally that I didn't run back to the Alliance as soon as I could.

And I don't expect everyone to worship the ground Shep walks on, they all don't.  But I expect someone whose been through what Ash has with me to at least try and understand why I would do something like this and trust me enough to believe me.

Modifié par vanslyke85, 04 juin 2011 - 01:16 .

[TheRevanchist]

Yes...and thats why we blame the writers...or I do at least...I just invent RP for myself to justify the crap writing lol.

Modifié par kylecouch, 04 juin 2011 - 01:29 .

[Asari Commando]

vanslyke85 wrote...

Ok I just replayed the Horizon mission and It's not as bad as I remember but Shepherd does give a response to her when she says he turned his back on everything and everyone. Shep says I'm not a traitor. You know me Ash, I'd only do this for the right reasons. She takes it personally that I didn't run back to the Alliance as soon as I could.

And I don't expect everyone to worship the ground Shep walks on, they all don't.  But I expect someone whose been through what Ash has with me to at least try and understand why I would do something like this and trust me enough to believe me.

i understand where you are coming from, and believe me i was very mad at the 5 minutes reuniun i got with my long-lost ashley. but you have to see it from her perspective, shepard was dead for TWO years, and comes back to say "hey ash, its been a while." sheps choice of words in the argument were aweful, and in my opinion pretty much deserved the reaction he got.

think of it like this, if your long lost significant other was supposedly KIA two years ago. now you find out that they are actually alive, and working for the taliban! yes we had little choice because cerberus did put us back together, but you really have to see it from her point of view. the old teammate who saw all that bad **** cerberus did, and not to mention she is an alliance fanboy (or fangirl )

[Badpie]

Yeah, Horizon was just bad all around.

If you didn't play ME1, ME2 didn't do much in the way of properly demonizing Cerberus. So when Ash or Kaidan started yelling at you people were like "who is this jerk?" when in reality all their points are very valid.

All of Shepard's dialogue was a giant fail. Ash and Kaidan's wasn't great, but I at least understood their anger and reluctance to join Shepard. Not to mention we don't know what's going on with Ash or Kaidan. Obviously they can't just drop everything and join up.

Ashley even says "I'd like to believe you, but I don't trust Cerberus. And it worries me that you do." It's not that she doesn't trust Shepard. She's worried about him. And her harsh words were a well needed reminder that Cerberus is an evil thing and Shepard needs to watch his back. Oh and look, SHE WAS RIGHT.

Due to the lack of decent writing for that scene I have to rationalize that Ash and Kaidan were mostly a victim of their own storm of emotions - and that can make you say things you'll regret later.

[Fidget6]

nickkcin11 wrote...
Shepard sounded like a ****ing idiot on Horizon and deserved the reaction by Ash. Shepard proved his point about as well as the OP, mainly like ****.

"Ash, it's been a while, how's it going".

When you open a reunion where the other party thought you were dead like this, the conversation can only go downhill. 

Correction, YOUR Shepard sounded like a b*tching idiot. If you choose all the neutral options (and then I always choose the paragon option at one point after Ash/Kaidan says, "You betrayed the alliance, you betrayed me!") Shep sounds perfectly reasonable, it's just Ash/Kaidan that sound douche-y.

[Weiser_Cain]

If I'm out of my mind Ash, why don't you help me? If I'm being manipulated why run away and leave me with a bunch of terrorists?

[Rogue Unit]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

If I'm out of my mind Ash, why don't you help me? If I'm being manipulated why run away and leave me with a bunch of terrorists?

[Weiser_Cain]

Is that how the kids do a +1 these days?

[TheRevanchist]

I guess...too lazy to even type "+1"

[Siansonea]

vanslyke85 wrote...

Ok I just replayed the Horizon mission and It's not as bad as I remember but Shepherd does give a response to her when she says he turned his back on everything and everyone. Shep says I'm not a traitor. You know me Ash, I'd only do this for the right reasons. She takes it personally that I didn't run back to the Alliance as soon as I could.

And I don't expect everyone to worship the ground Shep walks on, they all don't.  But I expect someone whose been through what Ash has with me to at least try and understand why I would do something like this and trust me enough to believe me.

If you look at it from Ash's point of view, though, she can't even really be sure it's Shepard she's talking to. Shepard was lost somewhere over Alchera, and his body was never found. Ashley spoke with him only minutes before, and even though he saved that idiot d-bag Joker, Shepard didn't make it onto one of the escape pods. Then, two years later, Shepard is flanked by Cerberus goons and says "It's been too long Ash, how've you been," as if they were acquaintances rather than soldiers who fought alongside each other and mourned the death of Kaidan Alenko together.

It's likely that all sorts of scenarios are going through Ashley's head when she sees Shepard again after reliving those harrowing minutes of the Normandy SR1's destruction over and over again. And Shepard just acts—weird—on Horizon. That's got to add to Ashley's suspicions about Shepard's mental state. I know if it was me, my first thought would NOT be "oh, he's probably been dead, brought back to life through a heretofore unknown super-secret resurrection science that defies all logic and probability and has only been awake and aware for a short time rather than the two years I've been agonizing over this". Really, Shepard's two-year limbo does NOT make any logical sense to me as the player, so I can't imagine it makes any sense to Ashley either. Even after playing through the game several times, I still have suspicions that Shepard is a clone or that Shepard never actually died. I also am not convinced that Shepard is free of a "control chip" type of device, regardless of what Miranda says. So I can't blame Ash for not picking the "Okay Shepard, let me grab my purse and I'll be on the Cerberus Normandy right away" dialog option.

[Iakus]

Badpie wrote...

All of Shepard's dialogue was a giant fail. Ash and Kaidan's wasn't great, but I at least understood their anger and reluctance to join Shepard. Not to mention we don't know what's going on with Ash or Kaidan. Obviously they can't just drop everything and join up.

Ashley even says "I'd like to believe you, but I don't trust Cerberus. And it worries me that you do." It's not that she doesn't trust Shepard. She's worried about him. And her harsh words were a well needed reminder that Cerberus is an evil thing and Shepard needs to watch his back. Oh and look, SHE WAS RIGHT.

The problem isn't so much that they get upset but that they don't even try to figure out what the frak is going on.  I mean, Anderson at least went  out and got my side of the story.  They simply leap to the worst possible conclusion, beyond all bounds of logic.  Considering what they did to break the Normandy Lockdown, and reports being sent that Shepard might not be dead, doesn't that warrant a ten minute talk?

Shepard was a complete idiot too.  I mean, my Shep had Garrus right there!.  Cerberus and aliens working together?  Joker and Chakwas were on the Normandy, bring them down to explain things!  Remind Ash that we've both broken rules to save the galaxy.  If Shepard can tell Garrus he fully expects Cerberus to betray them eventually, why can't he tell Ash that?

Instead we get:

Ash: " ...You're in the presence of a god, Delan, back from the dead"
Shepard:  "Ash!  Thank goodness you're all right!  Listen, you've got to warn the Alliance, the Collectors are grabbing human colonies!  Find Tali, she can confi..."
TIM:  ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL
Shepard:  "Hey Ash.  Long time no see.  Wanna join Cerberus?  It'll be just like old times"

Due to the lack of decent writing for that scene I have to rationalize that Ash and Kaidan were mostly a victim of their own storm of emotions - and that can make you say things you'll regret later.

I'm more pessimistic, I think they were a victim of six more LIs being introduced in ME2.

[Badpie]

iakus wrote...

Due to the lack of decent writing for that scene I have to rationalize that Ash and Kaidan were mostly a victim of their own storm of emotions - and that can make you say things you'll regret later.

I'm more pessimistic, I think they were a victim of six more LIs being introduced in ME2.

Haha!  Well....I was trying to keep an in-game reason, but yes. 

[Weiser_Cain]

Hehehehe

[TheRevanchist]

Well...I am disapointed to see Ashley wearing this spandex crap in the middle of the warzone when she rescues Shepard...I am not pleased about this...although overjoyed about everything else so far.

[vanslyke85]

Yea I thought she'd have some armor for battle. maybe that's just for the trailer/demo though. she may be trying to compete with miranda though...