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Geth/Quarian war outcomes you want


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#101
Someone With Mass

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naledgeborn wrote...
Except that, that wasn't their intention. They wanted submisive, robotic butlers on a colonial scale. I don't think that falls under Geth description. If a good mechanic wants to build a tank, the mechanic will build a tank not a boat. They failed.


And that's exactly what they did. They built servants, and connected them to a network in order to make it possible for the geth to perfom more complicated tasks. They just didn't expect the geth to share information on that scale.

No scientist or engineer can predict everthing before it happens.

#102
naledgeborn

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@Someone With Mass

Clearly your fanboyism is blinding you. All they have is their fleet. Period. 300 rusty buckets of bolts. Get it through your thick skull. The either make a heroic sacrifice or they don't.  

1 Turian/Human/Salarian/Asari top of the line frigate >>>>>>>> 1 Quarian 300 year old repurposed Carrier.

Modifié par naledgeborn, 01 juin 2011 - 09:47 .


#103
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The problem with a geth/quarian truce is that both sides will fear that as soon as the Reapers are no longer a threat that the other side will turn around and wipe them out. Neither of them will be very willing to risk that.

#104
Someone With Mass

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naledgeborn wrote...

Clearly your fanboyism is blinding you. All they have is their fleet. Period. 300 rusty buckets of bolts. Get it through your thick skull. The either make a heroic sacrifice or they don't.  

1 Turian/Human/Salarian/Asari top of the line frigate >>>>>>>> 1 Quarian 300 year old Carrier.


And you can't comprehend what I'm saying, so I'm just going to dumb it down for your two brain cells:

THE QUARIANS CAN BE SOMETHING ELSE THAN FRONT LINE SOLDIERS, YOU ****ING RETARDED LITTLE ****STAIN!

There. Can your puny little mind understand that? Jesus.

With such stupidity like that at the helm, you deserve to lose to the Reapers. 

#105
Ryzaki

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Saphra Deden wrote...

The problem with a geth/quarian truce is that both sides will fear that as soon as the Reapers are no longer a threat that the other side will turn around and wipe them out. Neither of them will be very willing to risk that.

 

This is why I don't see it likely that SHep will have them both. He/she will probably have to choose a side. 

I really hope that's the case. If they stop 300 years of fighting just because Shepard's awesome I'll gag. 

#106
Da Mecca

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Geth give them back Rannoch

Quarians build them a space station they can crunch numbers

Tali gets her stupid house and everyone goes home happy.

#107
AngelicMachinery

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Da Mecca wrote...

Tali gets her stupid house and everyone goes home happy.


:P

#108
Spartanburger

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@naledgeborn: The quarians have 50,000 ships, not 300.
And it's costs more time, money and manpower to construct 50,000 ships then tp upgrade 50,000 ships, especially considering that the Quarians themselves would be installing the upgrades, costing little to nothing in paid workforce as they would be upgrading their homes.

#109
naledgeborn

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Someone With Mass wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Clearly your fanboyism is blinding you. All they have is their fleet. Period. 300 rusty buckets of bolts. Get it through your thick skull. The either make a heroic sacrifice or they don't.  

1 Turian/Human/Salarian/Asari top of the line frigate >>>>>>>> 1 Quarian 300 year old Carrier.


And you can't comprehend what I'm saying, so I'm just going to dumb it down for your two brain cells:

THE QUARIANS CAN BE SOMETHING ELSE THAN FRONT LINE SOLDIERS, YOU ****ING RETARDED LITTLE ****STAIN!

There. Can your puny little mind understand that? Jesus.

With such stupidity like that at the helm, you deserve to lose to the Reapers. 


Says the man who defends a race whose biggest enemy is infection:whistle:. 

Quarian Marine Agent Dude: I have to hack a terminal to help Shepard save the galaxy.
Rachni Husk: RAAARRRRGHHHH
Quarine Marine Agent Dude: Wow that was a tough fight. I almost bit the dust that time. What's this a suit puncture? I think I'm running a fever. Somebody bring me some antibiotics.:pinched:

Get the picture or do I have to simplify it for you some more?

#110
Spartanburger

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Also: if peace is possible to the point of Geth and Quarian having an active and unproblematic foreign relation with each other, it is possible that the Geth themselves could be the ones providing the fleet with the upgrades. I'd like to see that happen but I doubt that peace to that degree is possible in the short time we have.

#111
Someone With Mass

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naledgeborn wrote...
Says the man who defends a race whose biggest enemy is infection:whistle:. 

Quarian Marine Agent Dude: I have to hack a terminal to help Shepard save the galaxy.
Rachni Husk: RAAARRRRGHHHH
Quarine Marine Agent Dude: Wow that was a tough fight. I almost bit the dust that time. What's this a suit puncture? I think I'm running a fever. Somebody bring me some antibiotics.:pinched:

Get the picture or do I have to simplify it for you some more?


Wait, there's a point in all that bull****?

I find it very amusing that you can't think of another ways to battle the enemy than fighting them head on. It's like your brain fries if you do.

#112
naledgeborn

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Someone With Mass wrote...

Wait, there's a point in all that bull****?

I find it very amusing that you can't think of another ways to battle the enemy than fighting them head on. It's like your brain fries if you do.


You're funny man. If I knew you in real life we'd probably punch each others noses and then grab a beer. My point is, regardless of the battle field or what type of warfare the Quarians are either outclassed (Geth, Salarians) or useless (front line). We'll just have to agree to disagree.

#113
ISpeakTheTruth

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He's saying that the Quarians weak immune system is going to be a major problem when they have to hack or do anything at all in the middle of a battle field and since we'll be playing defense for the majority of the game almost everywhere will be a battle field meaning that you're going to have a bunch of tech experts getting sick or dying because the combat damaged their suits.

#114
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ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

He's saying that the Quarians weak immune system is going to be a major problem when they have to hack or do anything at all in the middle of a battle field and since we'll be playing defense for the majority of the game almost everywhere will be a battle field meaning that you're going to have a bunch of tech experts getting sick or dying because the combat damaged their suits.


That's meta-gaming. From an in-universe perspective there is no reason the quarians need to field any ground troops at all.

You don't even need their fleet to engage the enemy if you don't want to. Use them to handle logistics.

#115
Someone With Mass

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naledgeborn wrote...
You're funny man. If I knew you in real life we'd probably punch each others noses and then grab a beer. My point is, regardless of the battle field or what type of warfare the Quarians are either outclassed (Geth, Salarians) or useless (front line). We'll just have to agree to disagree.


The "either/or" thing is just lame and predictable, anyway.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 01 juin 2011 - 10:16 .


#116
Dean_the_Young

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Someone With Mass wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Clearly your fanboyism is blinding you. All they have is their fleet. Period. 300 rusty buckets of bolts. Get it through your thick skull. The either make a heroic sacrifice or they don't.  

1 Turian/Human/Salarian/Asari top of the line frigate >>>>>>>> 1 Quarian 300 year old Carrier.


And you can't comprehend what I'm saying, so I'm just going to dumb it down for your two brain cells:

THE QUARIANS CAN BE SOMETHING ELSE THAN FRONT LINE SOLDIERS, YOU ****ING RETARDED LITTLE ****STAIN!

There. Can your puny little mind understand that? Jesus.

With such stupidity like that at the helm, you deserve to lose to the Reapers. 

I fully agree with your position, but your tone makes me want to argue with you on general principal.

Chillax, take a break, and return when you can do so with poise befitting of someone on the right side of an argument.

#117
eye basher

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the quarians already have one foot in the grave as it is might as well just put them out of their misery and anyone that thinks the quarians can beat the get are just kidding themselves what are they going to use the shanti fleet must of it is old as hell and the rest where put together and you want them to fight the geth with that the geth who tore apart the citadel fleet with ships barely bigger than a frigate!

#118
naledgeborn

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

I fully agree with your position


What's your take on this Dean? You often make solid points. Maybe you can convince me otherwise, but I have a hard time seeing the Quarians pulling their weight in the coming war against the Reapers.

#119
alx119

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I'm all about love, so I will fight all what I can to make peace between the Geth and the Quarian. And with a bit of hope, maybe they'll be in peace in time to help us with the Reapers.

Maybe the Quarian flotilla ain't as strong as it seems, but it has last 300 years at the least, so at least we know they may endure more than we think. And well, we all know that Geth build fast and efficiently.

#120
Dean_the_Young

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naledgeborn wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I fully agree with your position


What's your take on this Dean? You often make solid points. Maybe you can convince me otherwise, but I have a hard time seeing the Quarians pulling their weight in the coming war against the Reapers.

If the Quarian population can be placed somewhere temporarily, the Migrant Fleet provides three incredibly useful opportunities, all of which combined can be incredibly potent.

1) Logistical lift (military)

A ship's value is more than the strength of its hull or its power generator: at its heart, every ship's value is in what it can carry. Some ships carry soldiers who fight. Some ships carry supplies that allow soldiers need to fight. Some ships carry weapons. At their heart, every warship is simply a craft to carry a weapon somewhere else.

The migrant fleet offers the galaxy's best ability to pick up some element of power and take it somewhere relevant. That could be resupplying an Earth on the brink of collapse. That could be ferrying a Krogan army to fight Reapers. That could be providing all the necessary support-craft functions to allow the Citadel fleets to rapidly deploy and sustain any action.

Logistics is war power. The reason the United States remains the military hyper-power in the world today isn't because it has the most people on the ground, not even because it has the best of everything, but because it can be there in the first place. The United States has a better ability to move around the world than anyone else because of unglamorous transports which allow it to take the fight anywhere.

The first massive value of the Migrant Fleet is as a force multiplier for everyone else. The Migrant Fleet can supplement and boost everyone's ability to fight the Reapers, without firing a shot. They can carry your allies better than your allies can carry themselves. They can carry supplies to those allies, and by weight of numbers soak up losses in transit.

The migrant fleet, in a word, changes the single greatest problem of deployment, that of having the vehicles to move with, and replaces it with the much more desirable problem of 'how do I handle this capability'?


2) Logistical lift (evacuation)

While I focused on the direct military applications, the migrant fleet can also act as a significant life savior and diminisher of casualties by the other aspect of logistics: sustenance, aid, and evacuation.

This was someething that's actually already been brought up already in Mass Effect, in Bring Down the Sky: the Migrant Fleet can evacuate a lot of people very quickly. Entire colonies, at the threat of the Reapers, could be picked up and carried to safety in a matter of hours/days, instead of weeks and monthes. On Earth or on Pavlon or Tuchanka anywhere else, entire cities or continents faced with crumbling defenses and approaching Reapers could be flown away to safety.

This isn't only valuable humanitarian reasons, this is valuable for other aspects as well. Every civilian who isn't killed by the Reapers is one who can live on to contribute to the Reapers elsewhere. Every emergency convoy that allows a city to continue fighting for another day is another day the Reapers are tied down, damaged, and occupied.

And every Dunkirk, every salvaged army, of course, is an army with another chance to fight and win.

The Migrant Fleet is an undisputed master of logistical lift, in both cargo and evacuation capacity. The entire Fleet's existence, after all, was based upon that principal.



3) Disposable firing platform

Here's the military application that a lot of people think is irrelevant. Here's the military application I think many people underestimate.

The largest objection that people have to arming and militarizing the Migrant Fleet is that, well, it's old. It isn't as good as modern vessels. It won't last. In a fight between a Turian frigate and a Quarian freighter, Turian wins every time.

But from an engineering perspective, this is irrelevant: all that matters in engineering is the alternative to the situation at hand. A crappy old ship that can't take a shot isn't worse in a situation where no one can take a shot. 'Bad enough' is just as doomed as 'worst.' And since Sovereign rather aptly demonstrated entire cruisers being torn apart in single shots, endurance really isn't a significant advantage for most of the ships of the galaxy. A cruiser that costs fifty times as much for shield one hundred times as strong that still gets gutted in one shot is simply a target that costs fifty times as much.

Moreover, armament is exceptionally feasible for 'lesser' craft with the development of the Thannix. Even fighters can supply the firepower of a cruiser with the Thannix canon, and the Normandy 2 demonstrated the applicability for retrofitting such weapons on ships never designed for them. The development of Thannix is a game-changing technology in its own right: even if only a hundred Quarian vessels are fit to be retrofitted with such, that's a hundred cruiser's worth of firepower, and without meaningful loss of endurance (due ot, well, paper-shields compared to Reapers in the first place).

But the central aspect of all this is that, by and large, there is no necessary mutual exclusivity. A hundred, or a thousand, or ten, Quarian vessels that bring modern/old weapons to the battlefield are a hundred, a thousand, or ten ships you didn't have beforehand, while all the rest of the fleet is still providing awesome logistical power. Quarian ships change the limiting factor from the number of ships to be fielded, to the number of weapons that can be attached. This is an amazing reduction in the costs of power-deployment, and a massive advantage in force addition.

No one expects Quarian ships to go toe to toe with the Reapers. They don't need to. No one to date can. What the Quarian Flotilla brings in terms of military options is the opportunity to bring a lot more guns than you would have otherwise. Is each gun as desirable as a dedicated military craft? No. But then, you don't have the option of a dedicated military craft instead. The Migrant Fleet isn't an 'instead of' factor, it's an addition.





And those are some thoughts. These ignore all suspicion and expectation and possibility that he Quarian-Geth delimma may be resolved by helping Xen take control of the Geth, giving the player access to both the Fleet and Geth forces.

#121
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Granted we saw cruisers fighting Sovereign and they did **** all to it.

#122
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I was left with the belief that the geth dont even WANT planets or systems or anything like that. Why would there be a war at all? If the Quarians got their home planet back, and the Geth got their dyson sphere, why would there be any point to fighting?

#123
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'cause the geth none the less still control those planets. They could always leave, sure, but that's been the case for three centuries. Apparently they don't want to. Considering holding Rannoch keeps the quarians relatively weak (by preventing them from rebuilding their civilization) it may be the geth are holding onto the quarian worlds for strategic reasons.

#124
alx119

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

And those are some thoughts. These ignore all suspicion and expectation and possibility that he Quarian-Geth delimma may be resolved by helping Xen take control of the Geth, giving the player access to both the Fleet and Geth forces.


I'd say this isn't the only solution, since peace between the quarian and the geth, without taking control of the geth themselves would probably bring the same results. The Geth would fight alongside you in order to preserve their own existance, if not just for gratitude.
Helping Xen only looks like a jerk move to me.

#125
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Saphra Deden wrote...

'cause the geth none the less still control those planets. They could always leave, sure, but that's been the case for three centuries. Apparently they don't want to. Considering holding Rannoch keeps the quarians relatively weak (by preventing them from rebuilding their civilization) it may be the geth are holding onto the quarian worlds for strategic reasons.

If Legion is to be trusted at all, then it sounds as if the geth havn't given Rannoch back simply because the quarians haven't asked or tried making contact at all for that matter