397 réponses à ce sujet

[topster88]

Is it not obvious that the vast majority of players do not like the casual direction DA2 went?

Is it not obvious that the sales figures for DA2 were bloated because so many fans were expecting more of DA:O (and even *then* DA2 did not sell that much more than DA:O despite marketing it way more than DA:O was), and that sales for DA3 will suffer becuase of it?

Is it not obvious from all the user reviews on metacritic just how many people hate how much you've changed DA?

Is it also not obvious that the stark contrast of "critic" reviews only exist because EA paid them for high grades?

BioWare, your consumers do not like the gamepley. They do not like the story. They do not like the level design. They do not like the equipment, inventory, button-mashing, hack & slash elements.

Can this be any more clear? Can it?

[neppakyo]

Its not just metacritic and this site. Sites all over the web are generally in disfavour of DA2.

[Elhanan]

topster88 wrote...

Is it not obvious that the vast majority of players do not like the casual direction DA2 went?

Is it not obvious that the sales figures for DA2 were bloated because so many fans were expecting more of DA:O (and even *then* DA2 did not sell that much more than DA:O despite marketing it way more than DA:O was), and that sales for DA3 will suffer becuase of it?

Is it not obvious from all the user reviews on metacritic just how many people hate how much you've changed DA?

Is it also not obvious that the stark contrast of "critic" reviews only exist because EA paid them for high grades?

BioWare, your consumers do not like the gamepley. They do not like the story. They do not like the level design. They do not like the equipment, inventory, button-mashing, hack & slash elements.

Can this be any more clear? Can it?

No
No
Definitely not
No
Yeppers!

Hope this helps!

[Beerfish]

topster88 wrote...

Is it not obvious that the vast majority of players do not like the casual direction DA2 went?

Tough to refute a blanket statement in a non spoiler forum but other than two well documented problems the game was still pretty good with some seemingly minor points way way overblown and almost no credit given for the things the game did well.

Is it not obvious that the sales figures for DA2 were bloated because so many fans were expecting more of DA:O (and even *then* DA2 did not sell that much more than DA:O despite marketing it way more than DA:O was), and that sales for DA3 will suffer becuase of it?

We shall see from DA3 if the sales were bloated I would guess, I fully expect many of the people that hated DA2 to buy DA3 no matter what so at the very least they give them selves complaint cred.

Is it not obvious from all the user reviews on metacritic just how many people hate how much you've changed DA?

Metacritic should be 100% totally ignored in this matter.  It is so obvious it was overrun not by people that have graded BioWare games in the past but with people that had a bone to pick.  It is not relevant in the least.

Is it also not obvious that the stark contrast of "critic" reviews only exist because EA paid them for high grades?

On one hand you denegrate any postiive reviews and say they were paid for an yet you extol metactiic as being a valid source of information?  That doesn't wash.

BioWare, your consumers do not like the gamepley. They do not like the story. They do not like the level design. They do not like the equipment, inventory, button-mashing, hack & slash elements.

Wrong again, when people totally ignore part of a community that despite its faults like the game overall and when not one good thing is said about a product and only negatives are posted that leads to very little cred.  Especially when no valid suggestions are made for people to listen to other than.  "Don't make it suck!"

Can this be any more clear? Can it?

Your post is very clear, just not in the least helpful.

[Aaleel]

I would say yes to some degree.

Mike Laidlaw was on the forums a couple of times over the weekend, and he said something to the effect of finding some middle ground between Origins and DA2. So I think they know they may have gone a little too far with some of the changes.

What that middle ground is remains to be seen.

[topster88]

Beerfish wrote...

Tough to refute a blanket statement in a non spoiler forum but other than two well documented problems the game was still pretty good with some seemingly minor points way way overblown and almost no credit given for the things the game did well.

What does that have to do with the majority of people saying they didn't like the game

We shall see from DA3 if the sales were bloated I would guess, I fully expect many of the people that hated DA2 to buy DA3 no matter what so at the very least they give them selves complaint cred.

Or they'll rent it instead

Metacritic should be 100% totally ignored in this matter.  It is so obvious it was overrun not by people that have graded BioWare games in the past but with people that had a bone to pick.  It is not relevant in the least.

If that were true, user reviews of Dragon Age: Origins would have as bad of a score as DA2. User reviews for DA:O are mid to high 7's while reviews for DA2 are 3 to 4

On one hand you denegrate any postiive reviews and say they were paid for an yet you extol metactiic as being a valid source of information?  That doesn't wash.

I extol user reviews as valid sources of information. One of the critic reviews actually compared DA2 to The Empire Strikes Back. Tell me that's not a line EA paid for. I don't even think BW would say with honesty that DA2 is as good a story as TESB.

Wrong again, when people totally ignore part of a community that despite its faults like the game overall and when not one good thing is said about a product and only negatives are posted that leads to very little cred.  Especially when no valid suggestions are made for people to listen to other than.  "Don't make it suck!"

If you think the only constructive criticism of this game on here is "don't make it suck" then you aren't paying attention

Your post is very clear, just not in the least helpful.

"Stop trying to appeal to casual gamers"

How about now?

[Elhanan]

topster88 wrote...

What does that have to do with the majority of people saying they didn't like the game

Or they'll rent it instead

If that were true, user reviews of Dragon Age: Origins would have as bad of a score as DA2. User reviews for DA:O are mid to high 7's while reviews for DA2 are 3 to 4

I extol user reviews as valid sources of information. One of the critic reviews actually compared DA2 to The Empire Strikes Back. Tell me that's not a line EA paid for. I don't even think BW would say with honesty that DA2 is as good a story as TESB.

If you think the only constructive criticism of this game on here is "don't make it suck" then you aren't paying attention

"Stop trying to appeal to casual gamers"

How about now?

You have not shown that the majority have this same opinion; just your biased word.

Maybe.

You do not have to go far from the 10-0 votes to reveal that Metacritic is flawed. And one flawed result does not seem to prove that another flawed result is valid, as the equations are themselves flawed.

Why not? Some hail TESB as a monumental sequel; others prefer the original or the next film. No proof; just another opinion.

And you have not proven that the appeal went to casual gamers, as I have no idea of the complexity that goes into RTS, FPS, MMO, etc which was sought. While I play on a PC. does not equate that console play is casual.

[Faust1979]

Speak for yourself OP I liked the game the story and the gameplay. I liked the story, the equipment and I'm glad that the equipment page catoregizes things better. The only thing I didn't like about the game is the waves and level reuse. That is the only problem I have with it

[Chromie]

topster88 wrote...
 One of the critic reviews actually compared DA2 to The Empire Strikes Back. Tell me that's not a line EA paid for.

Wth?!

@Faust1979 The majority doesn't seem to like it. He didn't eevryone doesn't like it.

Modifié par Ringo12, 01 juin 2011 - 07:03 .

[erynnar]

The OP said he thinks a majority of people didn't like it, not that ALL people didn't like it. Even I didn't dislike the whole thing. Just parts so it was meh for me.

As to majority? Well sales certainly dropped like a rock. But really I think we won't have a better picture until the DLC and/or DA3.

[element eater]

Bioware will address problems both in future instalments and dlc.
However, whether or not what they decide the problems are the same thing that you see as the problems is another matter all together.

Modifié par element eater, 01 juin 2011 - 08:19 .

[topster88]

[quote]Elhanan wrote...

You have not shown that the majority have this same opinion; just your biased word.[/quote]

You don't need to take my word for it, look around this site and others. You'll see that the obvious majority doesn't like what DA2 did.

[quote]You do not have to go far from the 10-0 votes to reveal that Metacritic is flawed. And one flawed result does not seem to prove that another flawed result is valid, as the equations are themselves flawed.[/quote]

The equations are flawed? What? You don't like the method of averageing?

[quote]Why not? Some hail TESB as a monumental sequel; others prefer the original or the next film. No proof; just another opinion.[/quote]

The difference is that the majority think TESB is better. Not so with DA2.

[quoteAnd you have not proven that the appeal went to casual gamers, as I have no idea of the complexity that goes into RTS, FPS, MMO, etc which was sought. While I play on a PC. does not equate that console play is casual.[/quote]

You need me to prove the appeal went to casual gamers? Maybe you'd like to take the evidence straight from the horse's mouth:

http://www.gamespot....final-thoughts/
"We certainly knew there would be some friction between what Origins
players have come to expect and what Dragon Age II delivers."

[Lord Gremlin]

Facts: DA2 sold much less than DAO, despite being it's highly anticipated sequel. Well, they need to stop and think about it.If they make a game without real choice people will just go play Skyrim, which will be a better game in every other department. And a better action RPG.

And another fact: DA2 has much less content than Origins.

Modifié par Lord Gremlin, 01 juin 2011 - 08:28 .

[Aesieru]

Um... once you get over the OH MY GOSH BIG ROBOTS and the OMG *SPOILER* HE'S MY FATHER!

Empire strikes back really has nothing going for it, aside from the introduction of Boba Fett.

I preferred Return of the Jedi, because it wasn't so reliant on ONE plot point and ONE beginning.

But after you've seen them 50 times over in every format, read 100+ books, played all the games, and aced the Trivia Pursuit game to the point you never lose... you lose interest until the next new version or... complement.

[Aesieru]

Actually no, Oblivion like Fallout, like Skyrim will be bug ridden, with poor story, and arbitrary choices that don't matter because it just ends and no continuation off that will continue.

[Faust1979]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Facts: DA2 sold much less than DAO, despite being it's highly anticipated sequel. Well, they need to stop and think about it.If they make a game without real choice people will just go play Skyrim, which will be a better game in every other department. And a better action RPG.

what choice will Skyrim have? the Elder Scrolls games only have a single path through a game, bland characters few voice actors. Your main characters have no personality. Also the only real choice is how long you want to put off certain quests for. That's not really choice.  The open landscapes are just filler to make you think the game is bigger than it really is. So what if it can take 10-20 minutes to get to where you want to go.  Your main character will probably just be just a hollow group of stats and the game leaving you with not much to do when the main story ends except wandering around aimlessly forever with no real point

[Druss99]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Facts: DA2 sold much less than DAO, despite being it's highly anticipated sequel. Well, they need to stop and think about it.If they make a game without real choice people will just go play Skyrim, which will be a better game in every other department. And a better action RPG.

And another fact: DA2 has much less content than Origins.

People will play Skyrim anyway. Its not really a one or the other situation, one game is coming out this year the other has no set release date... Unless you mean DA2 which is already out and Skyrimis months away so the two are close to a year apart.

Also hasn't DA:O been out alot longer and had an Ultimate Edition re-release? That would make the sales comparison a bit unfair.

Modifié par Druss99, 01 juin 2011 - 08:37 .

[andar91]

I agree with Beerfish's points. I liked DA2, but it definitely has a lot of areas it could improve on. I'm sure Bioware is aware of what issues people had with the game; Laidlaw has posted about reading the feedback. I'm not sure if you're imagining them sitting in their offices closing their eyes with their fingers in their ears and trying to ignore feedback or something, but I don't believe they're doing that in the slightest. A lot of the changes in DA2 were because of feedback from DA;O so they clearly pay attention to what works and what doesn't.

[Faust1979]

They should stop trying to please every single person and just make the games they want to make them

[Firefeng]

Considering that numerous developers will come onto these forums to interact with people on their own time, when most other people just leave that messy affair to hired community managers, and that Mike Laidlaw took the criticism seriously enough that he went on a temporary hiatus to best approach the matter professionally, I'd think your topic is insultingly asinine, don't you?

[Aaleel]

Druss99 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Facts: DA2 sold much less than DAO, despite being it's highly anticipated sequel. Well, they need to stop and think about it.If they make a game without real choice people will just go play Skyrim, which will be a better game in every other department. And a better action RPG.

And another fact: DA2 has much less content than Origins.

People will play Skyrim anyway. Its not really a one or the other situation, one game is coming out this year the other has no set release date... Unless you mean DA2 which is already out and Skyrimis months away so the two are close to a year apart.

Also hasn't DA:O been out alot longer and had an Ultimate Edition re-release? That would make the sales comparison a bit unfair.

Well to be fair, Origins first 10 weeks vs DA2 first ten weeks is like 2:1.  And DA2 started off ahead in the first week due to all the preorders, then sales just plummeted.

[Fallstar]

I do think that they have been listening. I liked the recent patch, made gameplay seem much more balanced so far. Basically: normal enemies get more health, lieutenants get less. There's loads f other stuff too, but here's an example of people talking, then Bioware listening and acting. They have also said that they are taking their time on the dlc because they want to take into account fan feedback. So yes, DA:2 wasn't my particular cup of tea, but I do think that 1.03, and hopefully the next dlc, have and will improve the game.

[Druss99]

Aaleel wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Facts: DA2 sold much less than DAO, despite being it's highly anticipated sequel. Well, they need to stop and think about it.If they make a game without real choice people will just go play Skyrim, which will be a better game in every other department. And a better action RPG.

And another fact: DA2 has much less content than Origins.

People will play Skyrim anyway. Its not really a one or the other situation, one game is coming out this year the other has no set release date... Unless you mean DA2 which is already out and Skyrimis months away so the two are close to a year apart.

Also hasn't DA:O been out alot longer and had an Ultimate Edition re-release? That would make the sales comparison a bit unfair.

Well to be fair, Origins first 10 weeks vs DA2 first ten weeks is like 2:1.  And DA2 started off ahead in the first week due to all the preorders, then sales just plummeted.

Thats fair enough. I thought he just meant sales overall the way he was talking. I still think you have to factor in the amount of people who didn't finish DA:O, what was it 50% or something? I can't remember the exact numbers. They are very unlikely to buy a sequel so sales were going to be down anyway. Bioware had to try something.

[Aaleel]

Druss99 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Druss99 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Facts: DA2 sold much less than DAO, despite being it's highly anticipated sequel. Well, they need to stop and think about it.If they make a game without real choice people will just go play Skyrim, which will be a better game in every other department. And a better action RPG.

And another fact: DA2 has much less content than Origins.

People will play Skyrim anyway. Its not really a one or the other situation, one game is coming out this year the other has no set release date... Unless you mean DA2 which is already out and Skyrimis months away so the two are close to a year apart.

Also hasn't DA:O been out alot longer and had an Ultimate Edition re-release? That would make the sales comparison a bit unfair.

Well to be fair, Origins first 10 weeks vs DA2 first ten weeks is like 2:1.  And DA2 started off ahead in the first week due to all the preorders, then sales just plummeted.

Thats fair enough. I thought he just meant sales overall the way he was talking. I still think you have to factor in the amount of people who didn't finish DA:O, what was it 50% or something? I can't remember the exact numbers. They are very unlikely to buy a sequel so sales were going to be down anyway. Bioware had to try something.

But if you go by the same method they used for Origins, only 50% of the people finished DA2.  But since only half the people bought it, they're losing fans.  They didn't keep the ones they had, and failed to bring in the new ones they were seeking.

[Well]

Well I don't know the majority of people but I do know I won't preorder.It was just a ok game to me.I will wait.DA2 wasn't worth the money to me.There were people that really loved it and those that really hated it.More power to them.Myself the only plus was the dialog.Not the frelling wheel but the henchman.Now to the meat of the matter.Will BW pay attention to what folks found lacking.I don't see it.That is their choice.Mine is whether to buy it.I could be wrong and hope so but only time will tell.