397 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadowlit_Rogue]

topster88 wrote...

I leave for 7 hours and THIS is what happens to my topic???

Anyway, yeah, the idea that BW wants to attract the Blops crowd with this game is downright offensive.

BioWare, if you want to appeal to the Blops crowd? Make a f***ing FPS. God knows there aren't enough generic military FPSes out there. The typical Blops fans (sugar-addled 12-year-olds and drunk frat dudes) aren't interested in a swords and sorcery RPG. Period.

I'm a big CoD fan, and I'm actually really, really interested in sword and sorcery RPGs. What do I win? :happy:

Back to the actual topic, I'm sure we're in for some changes in DA3. I honestly think DA2 was a victim of overly bad circumstances. With the coming BioWare "drought", I think their choices were either to make a new IP (expensive) or kick a sequel to an existing IP that wasn't Mass Effect out the door. That's all conjecture, but it's either that or the rush job wasn't a rush job and was 100% what they thought the sequel to DA:O should be, which I don't believe.

If we're not stuck with Hawke (hoping) then it'll probably follow a new protagonist with new party members. They'll probably put some effort into the dungeons, make the game more open/expansive, and with the hopefully longer development cycle we'll probably see a more solid story. Or, at least, solid enough so that this doesn't happen again. DA2 was a... disappointment, but I'm interested to see if BW will bounce back or settle again.

[MDT1]

I'm quite sure that BW is hearing what we say and I'm also sure that their next release will have a better overall quality.

But I'm also afraid that it will still aim for a new audience, EA's holy grail, the CoD players.

[Sanunes]

fchopin wrote...

For something to get through would require an open mind, i have seen no evidence of this from BW.

They have been listening and trying to post that they are, but the problem is that there are people on these boards don't want to even believe that Bioware wants to try to make changes and will flame those posts until they are locked or deleted.

If the community would mature a little and treat Bioware with enough respect that if an employee posts something they don't agree with everyone would remain civil, I think we would see more interactive feedback that we would all appricate and see maybe a little bit more on what they plan or hope to try, for thats what the "Thank You" thread felt like to me.

[fchopin]

Sanunes wrote...

fchopin wrote...

For something to get through would require an open mind, i have seen no evidence of this from BW.

They have been listening and trying to post that they are, but the problem is that there are people on these boards don't want to even believe that Bioware wants to try to make changes and will flame those posts until they are locked or deleted.

If the community would mature a little and treat Bioware with enough respect that if an employee posts something they don't agree with everyone would remain civil, I think we would see more interactive feedback that we would all appricate and see maybe a little bit more on what they plan or hope to try, for thats what the "Thank You" thread felt like to me.

We are not talking about one game here, there is also ME2 and the DAO expansion so stop trying to make this in to a one game problem.
 
If they want us to believe them then they will have to prove themselves in the next game released, there is no other way.


Edit: I am talking only for myself in my statement above.

Modifié par fchopin, 02 juin 2011 - 02:56 .

[KBomb]

topster88 wrote...

I leave for 7 hours and THIS is what happens to my topic???

Anyway, yeah, the idea that BW wants to attract the Blops crowd with this game is downright offensive.

BioWare, if you want to appeal to the Blops crowd? Make a f***ing FPS. God knows there aren't enough generic military FPSes out there. The typical Blops fans (sugar-addled 12-year-olds and drunk frat dudes) aren't interested in a swords and sorcery RPG. Period.

I’m a fps fan and I also love rpg’s. It’s astonishing that people can like varying genres of video games, no?. You can also like different movie genres, different musical styles and read both fiction and non-fiction literature and enjoy both! Funny ‘ole world, innit?
 
I loved DA2, though I know it has flaws. It also had a lot of aspects that I am glad they changed. I believe it could have been a better game. I still enjoyed it--I still do enjoy it. That being said: Of course Bioware is well aware of the complaints and criticisms as much as that poor horse gets beat on these forums.

Modifié par KBomb, 02 juin 2011 - 03:37 .

[MikeP999]

topster88 wrote...

Is it not obvious that the vast majority of players do not like the casual direction DA2 went?

Is it not obvious that the sales figures for DA2 were bloated because so many fans were expecting more of DA:O (and even *then* DA2 did not sell that much more than DA:O despite marketing it way more than DA:O was), and that sales for DA3 will suffer becuase of it?

Is it not obvious from all the user reviews on metacritic just how many people hate how much you've changed DA?

Is it also not obvious that the stark contrast of "critic" reviews only exist because EA paid them for high grades?

BioWare, your consumers do not like the gamepley. They do not like the story. They do not like the level design. They do not like the equipment, inventory, button-mashing, hack & slash elements.

Can this be any more clear? Can it?

You're entittled to your opinion. Yet, what's the point in rehashing your views that have been mentioned time and time again.  Are you expecting Bioware to apologize directly to you within this thread?
If you're so upset, I recommend creating your own video game.  Until then, perhaps stop buying Bioware games if you're this frustrated. 
Oh and by the way, I highly doubt you speak for everyone, as your post implies.  Nor does insulting the first person shooter folks put yourself in a good light.

Modifié par MikeP999, 02 juin 2011 - 04:37 .

[Well]

Shadowlit_Rogue wrote...

topster88 wrote...

I leave for 7 hours and THIS is what happens to my topic???

Anyway, yeah, the idea that BW wants to attract the Blops crowd with this game is downright offensive.

BioWare, if you want to appeal to the Blops crowd? Make a f***ing FPS. God knows there aren't enough generic military FPSes out there. The typical Blops fans (sugar-addled 12-year-olds and drunk frat dudes) aren't interested in a swords and sorcery RPG. Period.

I'm a big CoD fan, and I'm actually really, really interested in sword and sorcery RPGs. What do I win? :happy:

Back to the actual topic, I'm sure we're in for some changes in DA3. I honestly think DA2 was a victim of overly bad circumstances. With the coming BioWare "drought", I think their choices were either to make a new IP (expensive) or kick a sequel to an existing IP that wasn't Mass Effect out the door. That's all conjecture, but it's either that or the rush job wasn't a rush job and was 100% what they thought the sequel to DA:O should be, which I don't believe.

If we're not stuck with Hawke (hoping) then it'll probably follow a new protagonist with new party members. They'll probably put some effort into the dungeons, make the game more open/expansive, and with the hopefully longer development cycle we'll probably see a more solid story. Or, at least, solid enough so that this doesn't happen again. DA2 was a... disappointment, but I'm interested to see if BW will bounce back or settle again.

My brother is COD fan also.Opps forgot I disowned him after that.My exbrother is also a retired Marine.So I not sure where he fits in.DA2 wasn't anything special to me.Still I hope DA3 comes out and they actually have a good story without all the holes.I hope to they put some important decisions in the players hands.People buy games for their enjoyment not the creators.If the product is good people will come back and Companys will make oddles of money.

[topster88]

Sanunes wrote...

They have been listening and trying to post that they are, but the problem is that there are people on these boards don't want to even believe that Bioware wants to try to make changes and will flame those posts until they are locked or deleted.

Really? Because the only response from BW I've seen in regard to the general dislike of DA2 is that they'll continue their "fusion" of DA:O's style and the new style they were going for.

You know that saying that if you try to appeal to everyone, you appeal to no one? If you chase two rabbits you'll catch neither?

So, again BioWare, if you want to appeal to the CoD crowd, make a military FPS. if you want to appeal to the crowd who are actually fans of DA, make a game more similar to Baldur's Gate.

[Arrtis]

Beerfish wrote...

topster88 wrote...

Is it not obvious that the vast majority of players do not like the casual direction DA2 went?

Tough to refute a blanket statement in a non spoiler forum but other than two well documented problems the game was still pretty good with some seemingly minor points way way overblown and almost no credit given for the things the game did well.

Is it not obvious that the sales figures for DA2 were bloated because so many fans were expecting more of DA:O (and even *then* DA2 did not sell that much more than DA:O despite marketing it way more than DA:O was), and that sales for DA3 will suffer becuase of it?

We shall see from DA3 if the sales were bloated I would guess, I fully expect many of the people that hated DA2 to buy DA3 no matter what so at the very least they give them selves complaint cred.

I am so glad there are different ways  to play a game without spending money.
If DA3 is just as bad as DA2?
I will complain in the unregistered section of DA3.

[Elhanan]

Arrtis wrote...

I am so glad there are different ways  to play a game without spending money.
If DA3 is just as bad as DA2?
I will complain in the unregistered section of DA3.

Just a guess, but this will proably gather as much attention from most as it is seemingly worth....

[topster88]

Arrtis wrote...

I am so glad there are different ways  to play a game without spending money.
If DA3 is just as bad as DA2?
I will complain in the unregistered section of DA3.

Uh, are you suggesting people should pirate this game instead?

Because.....no, that's not cool

[Persephone]

Arrtis wrote...

I am so glad there are different ways  to play a game without spending money.
If DA3 is just as bad as DA2?
I will complain in the unregistered section of DA3.

So you are promoting piracy? On Bioware's own forum?

Yeah, that will get the devs to listen to you, I am sure.:innocent:

[AtreiyaN7]

topster88 wrote...

Is it not obvious that the vast majority of players do not like the casual direction DA2 went?

Is it not obvious that the sales figures for DA2 were bloated because so many fans were expecting more of DA:O (and even *then* DA2 did not sell that much more than DA:O despite marketing it way more than DA:O was), and that sales for DA3 will suffer becuase of it?

Is it not obvious from all the user reviews on metacritic just how many people hate how much you've changed DA?

Is it also not obvious that the stark contrast of "critic" reviews only exist because EA paid them for high grades?

BioWare, your consumers do not like the gamepley. They do not like the story. They do not like the level design. They do not like the equipment, inventory, button-mashing, hack & slash elements.

Can this be any more clear? Can it?

Is it not obvious that this is the umpteenth melodramatic/presumptuous and pointless thread written for the purposes of indulging someone's desire to bash the game further? All the criticisms have pretty much been voiced at this point - in actual serious threads like the constructive criticism thread and/or similar (EDIT: by similar, I mean equally insipid) threads like this one. The recent Laidlaw thread seems to indicate that they've taken a number of the criticisms about the game (like the recycled areas) to heart.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 03 juin 2011 - 01:53 .

[RaenImrahl]

Indeed, discussion of piracy in any form violates the forum's rules of conduct. Please refrain.

[topster88]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Is it not obvious that this is the umpteenth melodramatic/presumptuous and pointless thread written for the purposes of indulging someone's desire to bash the game further? All the criticisms have pretty much been voiced at this point - in actual serious threads like the constructive criticism thread and/or similar (EDIT: by similar, I mean equally insipid) threads like this one. The recent Laidlaw thread seems to indicate that they've taken a number of the criticisms about the game (like the recycled areas) to heart.

I disagree. They have NOT taken the general attitude of this game to heart, because if they had, they wouldn't insist on keeping this game apart from more classic RPGs and continue a "fusion" between hardcore RPGs and the hack & slash style this game has.

[AtreiyaN7]

topster88 wrote...

I disagree. They have NOT taken the general attitude of this game to heart, because if they had, they wouldn't insist on keeping this game apart from more classic RPGs and continue a "fusion" between hardcore RPGs and the hack & slash style this game has.

Uh-huh - it's not hack & slash, clearly, but you keep believing that if you want. In ME3, it's been stated that BioWare is actually bringing back more RPG elements in the third game. So, you still say they're not listening? It seems like they listened to at least some of the criticisms people had about mechanics in ME2.

I dont think you'll get this purist game that you seem to want to exclusion of all else. The direction in multiple RPGs seems to be "fusion." And in any case, wasn't The Witcher 2 supposed to be the salvation of hardcore RPG gamers everywhere? Maybe you should try it, and you'll be a lot happier. Then again, since it does some of things that DA2 does, maybe not. Or play BG2 ad infinitum for something "hardcore."

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 03 juin 2011 - 02:27 .

[Morroian]

topster88 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Is it not obvious that this is the umpteenth melodramatic/presumptuous and pointless thread written for the purposes of indulging someone's desire to bash the game further? All the criticisms have pretty much been voiced at this point - in actual serious threads like the constructive criticism thread and/or similar (EDIT: by similar, I mean equally insipid) threads like this one. The recent Laidlaw thread seems to indicate that they've taken a number of the criticisms about the game (like the recycled areas) to heart.

I disagree. They have NOT taken the general attitude of this game to heart,

You cannot make this statement until more info about DA3 or maybe DA2 DLC is known. Right now they do sound like they're taking the criticisms on board.

[Well]

Brenon Holmes wrote...

Just a reminder folks, please keep the discussion civil. We all want these forums to be a nice friendly space where people can talk in a civil manner about the game.

Thanks.

Like the old Baldur's Gate Dev Corner...:innocent:

[Elhanan]

topster88 wrote...

I disagree. They have NOT taken the general attitude of this game to heart, because if they had, they wouldn't insist on keeping this game apart from more classic RPGs and continue a "fusion" between hardcore RPGs and the hack & slash style this game has.

If you mean H&S; often included in RPG's, and admittedly not the best ones, they are RPG's nonetheless.

If you mean console gaming, as a long term RPG enthusiast, and a non-Twitch gamer, DA2 does not appear to qualify for that either. Having some Active abilities does not equate to Twitch gaming. Pages of dialogue does not equate to RPG's either.

Thus far you have seemingly only given us your opinion; not striving for posting an informed one. IMO.

[topster88]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...



Uh-huh - it's not hack & slash,
clearly, but you keep believing that if you want. In ME3, it's been
stated that BioWare is actually bringing back more RPG elements in the
third game. So, you still say they're not listening? It seems like they
listened to at least some of the criticisms people had about mechanics
in ME2.



I dont think you'll get this purist game that you seem
to want to exclusion of all else. The direction in multiple RPGs seems
to be "fusion." And in any case, wasn't The Witcher 2 supposed to be the
salvation of hardcore RPG gamers everywhere? Maybe you should try it,
and you'll be a lot happier. Then again, since it does some of things
that DA2 does, maybe not. Or play BG2 ad infinitum for something
"hardcore."

You aren't being much of a BW representative if your best advice is to "go play another game"



And
yeah, I know ME is bringing back more RPG elements, but then ME doesn't
have the pedigree DA has. DA is supposed to be a spiritual successor to
Baldur's Gate, which is established to be a classic-style RPG. No, DA:O
wasn't exactly BG, but then DA2 is much, much further removed than
that.



And if you have this game on a console, yes, it's hack
& slash. Just because you can cast a spell every once in awhile
doesn't change that.

Morroian wrote...

You cannot
make this statement until more info about DA3 or maybe DA2 DLC is known.
Right now they do sound like they're taking the criticisms on board.

I can, because Laidow all but confirmed they still will be going for DA2's style in future games

http://www.rpgwatch....ead.php?t=13033

Elhanan wrote...

If you mean H&S; often included in RPG's, and admittedly not the best ones, they are RPG's nonetheless.

If you mean console gaming, as a long term RPG enthusiast, and a non-Twitch gamer, DA2 does not appear to qualify for that either. Having some Active abilities does not equate to Twitch gaming. Pages of dialogue does not equate to RPG's either.

Thus far you have seemingly only given us your opinion; not striving for posting an informed one. IMO.

Yeesh, does everything you post need to be mired in condescension? I never claimed DA2 wasn't an RPG, only that it's not a very good one.

Modifié par topster88, 03 juin 2011 - 03:38 .

[Elhanan]

topster88 wrote...

You aren't being much of a BW representative if your best advice is to "go play another game"

I do not believe they rep BW; just another fan that is perhaps tired of the whining.

Yeesh, does everything you post need to be mired in condescension? I never claimed DA2 wasn't an RPG, only that it's not a very good one.

... Because they strived to appeal to other fans outside the RPG genre. Or did I misread your many posts?

I do not mean to be condescending, as I dislike it when I see it in others. I know I am not better than others; some seem to need proof; hence the Quote key. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Modifié par Elhanan, 03 juin 2011 - 03:50 .

[Chromie]

Elhanan wrote...

topster88 wrote...

You aren't being much of a BW representative if your best advice is to "go play another game"

I do not believe they rep BW; just another fan that is perhaps tired of the whining.

Yeesh, does everything you post need to be mired in condescension? I never claimed DA2 wasn't an RPG, only that it's not a very good one.

... Because they strived to appeal to other fans outside the RPG genre. Or did I misread your many posts?

I do not mean to be condescending, as I dislike it when I see it in others. I know I am not better than others; some seem to need proof; hence the Quote key. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Well I'm a fan and I'm tired of the people who think everything Bioware does is good. They messed up and need to be told this isn't a charity we pay for their stuff. I have no problem with a developer trying to get more fans and appeal to others but they alienated a lot of people with DA2 and tried getting fans of Call of Duty. Guess what the CoD crowd is playing...Call of Duty.



"It is a good thing for an educated man to read books of quotations." -- Winston Churchill

[Elhanan]

Ringo12 wrote...

Well I'm a fan and I'm tired of the people who think everything Bioware does is good. They messed up and need to be told this isn't a charity we pay for their stuff. I have no problem with a developer trying to get more fans and appeal to others but they alienated a lot of people with DA2 and tried getting fans of Call of Duty. Guess what the CoD crowd is playing...Call of Duty.

"It is a good thing for an educated man to read books of quotations." -- Winston Churchill

They messed up? They need to be told? Do you read these before posting?

You hardly speak for me; perhaps others, and do not appear to be one that knows of charity, while Bioware proves it.

But I doubt all the CoD crowd is elsewhere; the TW2 sure crowd ain't....


A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Winston Churchill

Modifié par Elhanan, 03 juin 2011 - 04:13 .

[topster88]

[quote]Elhanan wrote...

I do not believe they rep BW; just another fan that is perhaps tired of the whining.[/quote]

It's a shame that you take valid complaints to be whining. Thank god YOU aren't a BW representative.

[quote]... Because they strived to appeal to other fans outside the RPG genre. Or did I misread your many posts?[/quote]

Close, but no cigar. My gripe is that they are trying to appeal to the CoD crowd with an RPG. That doesn't mean DA2 isn't an RPG.[/quote]

[Elhanan]

topster88 wrote...

It's a shame that you take valid complaints to be whining. Thank god YOU aren't a BW representative.

Close, but no cigar. My gripe is that they are trying to appeal to the CoD crowd with an RPG. That doesn't mean DA2 isn't an RPG.

Valid complaints are fine; even encouraged by the mods (ie; Constructive Crit thread). Then there are threads like this....

In the immortal words of Mal Reynolds: Me-wabba-who?

Kinda hard to appeal to the CoD crowd to play a RPG sans RPG; ain't it.