35 réponses à ce sujet

[Alexander Sannan]

hi,

I'm computer RPG nerd. I'm the kind of annoying elitist guy who complains about the x-box generations and whine about the down dumbed mechanics in Dragon Age... yeah.

my favourite game of all time is probably Neverwinter Nights. I've played that game TO DEATH. however, Neverwinter Nights 2 was not to my liking at all when I first checked it out. I was skeptical due to all the bad hype I'd heard everywhere, and my concerns were largely confirmed when I got exposed to some bug that froze my game completely. so I turnet it off and uninstalled it.

dismayed and hurt by a not perfect game, I never looked back.

but one guy I know who is just a big a CRPG elitist as me says that the bugs were all fixed ages ago, and that NwN2 actually is a far better game than NwN. though he completely underrates NwN in my opinion, this intrigued me nonetheless. because I definitely *want* to like NwN2.

so, what are your guys' qualified guesses - will I enjoy NwN2 if I revisit it? are the bugs largely gone? is it worthy of my precious CRPG elitist time?

cheers for any response!

[Arkalezth]

I don't know if you're going to enjoy it (I guess you'll do if you like CRPGs), or if you're going to like it more than the first, but yes, that kind of bugs are largely gone.

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

Yes. Absolutely. If you're a computer RPG nerd this might be your last taste of a mainstream computer RPG experience for a long time to come. The console-tards have moved in on the genre and all the AAA devs are dumbing down gameplay to cater to them.

NWN2 is a worthy title. It's been thoroughly patched and provided your PC has the muscle to run it you should be able to get through it without major issues. While I disagree that it's better than NWN, it's certainly better looking. Even so NWN2 stands on it's own as a good game.

Buy it. Play it. You won't regret it.

Modifié par UrkOfGreyhawk, 01 juin 2011 - 10:32 .

[Kaldor Silverwand]

This thread is similar to yours and has additional responses.

And this thread.

And this thread.

[-Semper-]

why are people always asking for other opinions in forums... even for the most simple ****? just install and patch the game and you will see the outcome. if you still don't like it you've simply wasted few hours, that's it. nobody can help you making this step - i don't get this whole nonsense

Modifié par -Semper-, 01 juin 2011 - 11:18 .

[UrkOfGreyhawk]

Come on guys. Don't razz the noobs. It's a reasonable question, if a bit redundant.

[painofdungeoneternal]

To be honest, i have no idea if you will like it.

My feeling is the perfect is the enemy of the good, and you have to remember NWN1 was not perfect - most who really enjoy it learned how to sidestep it's flaws, or just got used to them. Quite a bit of what i love about nwn1 was done despite Atari.

Its much like NWN1 in it's focus, except we've got more options on what we can mod. Visual effects, User interface, scripting systems, and those NWNx folks have better symbols which makes them able to do far more ( client extension, and bug fixes to PW's, and a community build server is in development ) Issues like the camera are not perfect, but it's a LOT better than at release. Things are missing like radials, but the replacements are well worth it.

Frankly i find the initial complaints as folks comparing the game to NWN1 as a bit perplexing.

They i think assume that NWN2 was supposed to be NWN1, with all the old stuff brought along. But then it would not be able to fix the core issues, i was there in the forums and there were lots of complaints which NWN2 did fix quite a few of. Lack of horses were a disappointment, as was the Z axis. And it took until patch 1.23 to fix many issues, some are still not fixed, derived from a very rushed development ( remember dragon age was started at the same time ). There is a comparison of feature x in NWN1 which is not in NWN2, and it's seen as a step backwards. Often when you have an issue with a  solid game, it's often going to require 1 step backwards prior to taking 2 steps forward, things are better but you do have to remove existing features to get there. ( Example is the step backwards in interface, the default interface in NWN1 was better, but being able to mod the interface completely just like html makes this a non issue, you can even recreate the NWN1 or Baldurs gate interface, or do like i did and just do a completely new one based on many older games. )

The issue is entirely the name. They should have named it something new, and not done the 2. It's a new game more than a sequel. It really is more comparable to Dragon Age than NWN1, both of which are the children to NWN1. Regardless it's adding far more than it takes away, and gives the community a lot more power by providing pro level tools, much less content due to this but it's almost all commercial level stuff the community is doing. If you stop calling it NWN1 minus this or that, and just see it as a new game, well quite a few folks seem to like dragon age which is clearly more aimed at the least common denominator console user with massive spurts of blood than to the crpg loving d&d nerd. Most other games are aimed at consoles, MMO's or first person shooters.

To me there are so few games which use the actual D&D rules, and are moddable to such a large degree, have SP modules and a DM client and PW's. If you actually care about what NWN1 represented, i cannot see how you cannot cheer games which try to target the niche NWN1, NWN2 and baldurs gate did.

As for the bugs, just like in NWN1, the community is fixing them or has fixed them. Features, yes we are working on them. The things the devs promised, well we are trying to ride those horses home.

Worth playing, it depends on if you focus on what NWN2 offers, instead of focusing on it's flaws. Just like any game it's got a bit of both, and like anything a willing suspension of disbelief really helps you enjoy the good parts.

And we've got a helpful and creative community here. At the end of the day, or year even, where this game goes is only limited by the imagination of this community. I see fun things ahead and i can say i think if you don't have it you will be missing out, at $10 on steam its hard to justify not having it installed right next to NWN1.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 02 juin 2011 - 06:24 .

[Shallina]

NWN2 is awesome. It's a game that I can still play after playing DAO or Witcher 2 or MAss effect.

NWN1 I can't.

[Morbane]

Shallina wrote...

NWN2 is awesome. It's a game that I can still play after playing DAO or Witcher 2 or MAss effect.

NWN1 I can't.

I Agree

[Alexander Sannan]

thanks to all. especially thanks to painofdungeoneternal for your well balanced reply.

to address a misconception: I do not believe this game is NwN + bonus features. when I first tried it I immediately realised that viewing this as a Neverwinter Nights follow-up isn't going to float. furthermore I was kind of puzzled as to why they even named it NwN2 in the first place, because this was by no means NwN as far as I was concerned.

the reason I couldn't find myself enjoying it was primarily that it felt like a rushed piece of ****. filled with bugs. and what made matters far worse was that the developers pushed out expansion packs introducing new bugs, instead of fixing the old bugs. that mentality disappointed me gravely. (much like the developers' reply to Dragon Age 2. instead of *fixing* it, they just say "oh well, we'll try to not suck the next time around". look at what the developers of The Witcher did. now that's a good mentality.)

and as mentioned, I *wanted* to like NwN2, because any attempt at keeping good old proper CRPGs still valid in this world are to be applauded as far as I'm concerned.

so what I'm really wondering, to be very specific, is: are the bugs fixed? and - does it look more like the good old CRPGs than the more dumbed down modern RPG games? and lastly, does the game still feel like it's rushed and buggy? i.e. is it annoying to play due to the amount of bugs?

question one I feel like I've gotten a decent reply to now, so thanks. question two has been partly answer. what about question three? will playing through NwN2 make me feel like I'm a Beta-tester, or is it actually possible to enjoy the game and just close your eyes and pretend the bugs aren't there due to their lack of seriousness and frequency of appearance?


p.s.
I have no problems enjoying NwN1. I'm playing through it again now for the n-th time.

Modifié par Alexander Sannan, 02 juin 2011 - 07:00 .

[Arkalezth]

Alexander Sannan wrote...
what about question three? will playing through NwN2 make me feel like I'm a Beta-tester, or is it actually possible to enjoy the game and just close your eyes and pretend the bugs aren't there due to their lack of seriousness and frequency of appearance?

Arkalezth wrote...

that kind of bugs are largely gone.

[kamal_]

I don't remember any bugs during my playthroughs of the main campaign. As as far as rpg depth, in the community works it's just a matter of how deep a builder wants to go. For example you can look at crazy like pains language system or my system implementing weapon draw times and npcs that differentiate between being pickpocketed and being mugged. Npcs that go to bed at night and have schedules, guards that light torches along their patrol routes, hiding systems that account for light, all those have been done.

[The Fred]

Alexander Sannan wrote...
the reason I couldn't find myself enjoying it was primarily that it felt like a rushed piece of ****. filled with bugs.

That's because to be honest, for want of better phrasing, it was. They were pushed to release before they were really ready, because they were late anyway. To be honest, though, even the "good old CRPGs" weren't perfect - look at Baldur's Gate, which in my mind is absolutely wonderful, yet even that was actually full of bugs, too (mostly not game-breaking, though).

Anyway, you may like it or you may not. As said, though, you'll only know if you just try it out and see - one good thing about it is that if you do have issues, there are people here (i.e. us) who'll be more than happy to help you out with them.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Well the OC in NWN2 is just like the OC in NWN1, not the best of the 3 games offered in the series and more of a showcase. So it's judging the one release which is the weakest, the devs really learned how to do things better with each expansion, but kaldor has a makeover pack which does help a lot. The issues really would have required completely redoing the OC to actually fix.

Getting Kaedrins class pack, Tony K's AI, and Kaldor silverwands OC makeover i'd suggest as good overrides to ensure you have a good experience, all top notch commercial quality and fixing numerous bugs beyond just adding improved features.

There are also many fantastic modules on the vault, and PW's which really show the devs what you can do with the module. Misery Stone, Zork, Mysteries of westgate ( adventure pack ), all things which you should still take a look at if the OC is not good enough for you.

[M. Rieder]

I have a lot of fun playing the community made modules and campaigns. I feel that they capture the feeling of roleplaying well on the computer - some more than others, of course. Like NWN1, when you get NWN2, you aren't getting one game, you are getting hundreds, with many more being produced every month.

[Kaldor Silverwand]

I don't think the NWN2 bugs are any more annoying than the NWN1 bugs were. Controlling a larger party makes things more difficult at times, but that is better in my opinion than being restricted to a party of 2 or 3 as in NWN1.

There are bugs in spells and rules implementations and some features like secret doors and stealth are not really usable. It would be nice if items with spell resistance worked properly, but not exactly game breaking that they don't. Lack of horse riding and double bladed weapons isn't a big deal. The community has released fixes for some things, so if there is something that really really bugs you there is probably a way to correct it if you are willing to use custom content.

I can't say what things I consider minor bugs you will consider major bugs. I don't know what experience you had that you thought was so bad. I found the OC to be irritating for entirely different reasons than bugs. But I found the NWN1 OC to be just as irritating.

It is cheap. It is easy. What more could you want?

Regards

[kevL]

Kaldor Silverwand wrote...

... Controlling a larger party makes things more difficult at times ...

Regards

Personally, i think that's the greatest advancement of NwN2 from 1. I get off seeing my group go into battle as a tightly knit unit .. then the inevitable Fog of War sets in. & how well or poorly i Play amounts to how well or poorly I keep it together

(in puppet mode)

[TMZuk]

That depends.

In my opinion, NWN 2 is clumsy and unwieldy, with too long loadtimes, and a half-assed ending. Never the less, it is well acted, an intriguing tale and with great characters. It is worth playing, as most of the annoyances are technical, and behind those annoyances, there is a solid RPG.

Mask of the Betrayer is more than solid. In spite of the same technical flaws as the OC, it stands as the finest cRPG I have played since BG2, until New Vegas.

My two cents. 

Modifié par TMZuk, 06 juin 2011 - 12:38 .

[Arkalezth]

NWN2 isn't only the OC, MotB and SoZ. You may not like the OC, but you may like a community module or a PW.

[kamal_]

@tmzuk BG1 and 2 were published by Black Isle, who became Obsidian, who made MotB and New Vegas. So there you go, all your faves have the same company heritage on the box. I recommend you try Planescape: Torment if you haven't.

[The Fred]

I liked PS:T and I still need to finish it, but it's a tad creepy for my tastes. All those wierd zombies and things... ;-)

[Shallina]

You must submit yourself to the taint for the greater good.

[Shaughn78]

PS:T is likely the best game I ever played!

As to playing NWN2 I would say go for it. If the OC isn't to your taste there is a ton of community campaigns.

Modifié par Shaughn78, 05 juin 2011 - 04:19 .

[DragonAgeAddict]

Nwn2 is one of my favorite games for my computer, So i could be a bit biased. But i say definitely give it a try.
I honestly prefer Nwn1, however, nwn2 is an excellent game in itself.

[TMZuk]

kamal_ wrote...

@tmzuk BG1 and 2 were published by Black Isle, who became Obsidian, who made MotB and New Vegas. So there you go, all your faves have the same company heritage on the box. I recommend you try Planescape: Torment if you haven't.

I know, and more and more I see the demise of Bioware as "Masters of the story-driven cRPG", is not so much as a demise, but rather that the excellence of BG and especially BG2 was a result of Black Isle/Obsidian's participation.

And, of course I have played Planescape: Torment. And the funny thing about that: It is STILL for sale in my local gamestore. Which of the games made today will still be sold in ten years, I wonder?