44 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkhour]

I get the omni-blade.

I just don't get what gives it the ability to puncture armor. If a bullets (or metal shaving) acelerated to incredible speeds cannot bypass armor (a singular tiny object, with incredible force directed toward a very small area), how can a blunt object with far less force covering a greater surface puncture armor?

A physical molecular blade would make more sense.  

[Pride Demon]

There are a few feasible eplanations actually, some were even given here...
I already wrote my thoughts on this in two other threads, so let me quote myself:

"Well, an hologram is light bended to a peculiar shape using either mirrors or electricity and magnetic fields, given what we know of ME technology it's not unfeasable to thing one could overclock the magnetic field as to become seamingly semi-solid: Tech Armour does this, the Shadow Broker Omni-shield did this, he*l even normal kinetic barriers (vulgarly known as shields) do this all the time...

It's the magnetic field that does all the work, the light shape is probably only for show and to allow the user to see where he/she is hitting (considering magnetic fields are generally invisible to the human eye)

The fact it's not actually a solid object explains how easily it penetrates armour... Then it probably discharges some sort of electric shock that burns the target nervous system, perfect one hit kill... "

Turns out, it's only actually one hit kill if you attack from behind or remain undetected, otherwise it merely damages and stagger your foe...

Anyway, this being fiction (and in my opinion of the "well thought out" kind), there are thousands of ways one could explain it, while remaining into the bouds of lore, one just has to look hard enough...

Hathur wrote...

If you're making a science fiction game or tv show / movie and don't even apply newtonian laws of physics to space flight (looking at you, SSV Normandy.. banking? Climbing? Diving.. in space? No... fighter jets don't work in space.. there is only lateral thrust, vertical thrust and inertia.. no behvaing as if you were under the effects of atmosphere plus gravity), then you cannot remotely consider it hard science fiction.

This was actually explained in game through the codex... The thrusters have nothing to do with the parts highlighted and work exactly as you said (lateral and vertical, though I'll point out that they can rotate to a certain extent)... The other movements you see the Normandy doing are done thanks to the Mass Effect Core: it creates "virtual" pockets of concentrated mass via dark energy and Eezo, these pockets of concentrated mass generate an artificial gravity well the ship "falls into"...

So really the ship isn't actually banking, climbing or diving, it is litterally constantly falling into artificial gravity wells generated by the Mass Effect Tantalus Core; said gravity wells shift and change position following Joker's specifics, so he can pilot the ship...

For the rest I agree with you however, people take the ME series too seriously...
Regardles of "pulp" or "hard" it's still fiction, it's not like it ever pretended to be the actual future of humanity...

[SkittlesKat96]

The omniblade isn't the same thing as the omnitool and its already been explained in one of the dev tweets how it works scientifically.

EDIT: Well not 100% like the omnitool anyway, they are still sort of similar

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 11 juin 2011 - 08:54 .

[Black Raptor]

Darkhour wrote...

I get the omni-blade.

I just don't get what gives it the ability to puncture armor. If a bullets (or metal shaving) acelerated to incredible speeds cannot bypass armor (a singular tiny object, with incredible force directed toward a very small area), how can a blunt object with far less force covering a greater surface puncture armor?

A physical molecular blade would make more sense.  

It's the shields. In Mass Effect, the kinetic barriers respond to fast small things like projectiles. They don't respond to slow moving objects (so that the wearer can sit down and pick stuff up)

The blade isn't moving fast enough to activate the barriers. 

[Darkhour]

Pride Demon wrote...

The fact it's not actually a solid object explains how easily it penetrates armour... Then it probably discharges some sort of electric shock that burns the target nervous system, perfect one hit kill...

It draws blood like a knife.

Black Raptor wrote...

It's the shields. In Mass Effect, the kinetic barriers respond to fast small things like projectiles. They don't respond to slow moving objects (so that the wearer can sit down and pick stuff up)

The blade isn't moving fast enough to activate the barriers. 

Even without shields, armor will stop a mass accelerator round. The omni-blade completely bypasses the armor which is what I am referring to.

[azerSheppard]

Wait for the ****ing codex entry in me3 for your explenation, it'll probably be in the lines of:

"The omni-blades work by creating mass effect fields which alterate between a pull and push state and thereby having an immense "cutting" power,however in reality there is no actual cutting, the attacked material simply loses it molecular structure at the impact area."


Anyway OP is a retard, he questions the omniblade, but not the kinetic shield which can stop highmass impacts from space debries. He doesn't even question how you can use an omni-tool at all, how do you press a button thats holographic? BY USING ME FIELDS

And i love how he directs to tropes... look into things a little deeper for once

"Even without shields, armor will stop a mass accelerator round. The omni-blade completely bypasses the armor which is what I am referring to. "

The shields react to high speed inpacts, you can use a real dagger on a person who is shielded, the kinetic barrier does not take the impact in.
In ME2 they changed some gameplay mechanics in order to create more tactical combat, one such change was that you need to destroy the shields/barriers - armors - health, in that order, however in actual canon of the first game this is not true, both gameplay and lore wise.

Modifié par azerSheppard, 11 juin 2011 - 11:24 .

[Black Raptor]

Darkhour wrote...
Even without shields, armor will stop a mass accelerator round. The omni-blade completely bypasses the armor which is what I am referring to.

Same way things can be bullet proof but not stab proof. If you can absorb the initial impact of a bullet, then that's it. A blade can have a continuous force applied to it and if the armour is designed to merely deflect or disperse point impact projectiles then they could easily succumb to someone forcing a blade through a ****** for example.

Besides, armour doesn't really stop the rounds. You and organic enemies bleed if they get shot with no shields. The armour is simply keeping your internal organs in one neat container until the medigel starts its healing. 


The omni-blade falls well within the lore. Some people are just not imaginative enough to see how it could be a possibility. 

[Darkhour]

azerSheppard wrote...

"Even without shields, armor will stop a mass accelerator round. The omni-blade completely bypasses the armor which is what I am referring to. "

The shields react to high speed inpacts...

Shields aren't relevant. You quoted me. Can't you at least read what you quoted?

Black Raptor wrote...

Same way things can be bullet proof but not stab proof.

What things?

If you can absorb the initial impact of a bullet, then that's it. A blade can have a continuous force applied to it and if the armour is designed to merely deflect or disperse point impact projectiles then they could easily succumb to someone forcing a blade through a ****** for example.

Shepard isn't forcing anything through a ******. It's just a quick thrust.

Besides, armour doesn't really stop the rounds. You and organic enemies bleed if they get shot with no shields. The armour is simply keeping your internal organs in one neat container until the medigel starts its healing. 

Shepard and crew bleed because armor cannot regenerate and thus it isn't represented.  Ergo, Shepard and his squad don't have armor mechanics. All Shepard's upgrades are based aroun dhis health/physical body being strengthened. But every other force out there does utilize armor mechanics (well, those with armor anyway). I have to assume armor is "canon", but isn't on playable Shepard do to game mechanics.

The omni-blade falls well within the lore. Some people are just not imaginative enough to see how it could be a possibility.

An omniblade is fine. An omni blade that can cut through armor like butter... not so much.

Modifié par Darkhour, 11 juin 2011 - 02:19 .

[Minister of Sound]

Cue Selene Moonsong locking this thread and saying this belongs in the ME3 forum.

[ianmcdonald]

I bet I can explain it: It's a video game.

[Black Raptor]

Darkhour wrote...



What things?

Bullet proof vests before the 1990's. c'mon, it's not hard to think of examples yourself surely?

Darkhour wrote...
Shepard isn't forcing anything through a ******. It's just a quick thrust.

How can you tell it isn't a quick thrust aimed at a ******? 
Not that it matters anyway. Armour doesn't completely stop bullets in ME so there is no reason why it should completely stop blades.

Darkhour wrote...
Shepard and crew bleed because armor cannot regenerate and thus it isn't represented.  Ergo, Shepard and his squad don't have armor mechanics. All Shepard's upgrades are based aroun dhis health/physical body being strengthened. But every other force out there does utilize armor mechanics (well, those with armor anyway). I have to assume armor is "canon", but isn't on playable Shepard do to game mechanics.

Completely ignoring the fact that your enemies bleed too when their shields go down and you are targetting their health. 
If you are talking about armour as in the yellow health bar, then no, Shepard doesn't have this unless you count the tech armour. (which is itself made out of omnitoolness so it's not unforseable that it can be penertrated by a omniblade.)
Armour, as in the item of clothing you're forced to wear while out of the Normandy, and what is similarly worn by mercs, (and the guy you see get stabbed by the omniblade in the demo) does not stop bullets. You bleed when it gets shot. Your enemies bleed when they get shot. This is the armour we're talking about and there is no reason why an omni blade wouldn't work against it. 

Darkhour wrote...
An omniblade is fine. An omni blade that can cut through armor like butter... not so much.

Why not? Lets say that your omni tool constructs a blade which is then either heated up to a high temperature or vibrated incredibly fast. Could cut through butter and armour quite easily even if all my other assumptions about the armour people wear in the game is wrong.  

[JMTolan]

Black Raptor's got this pretty much right. Kevlar vests are bulletproof, but not by default stabproof. It slows and spreads the force of the bullet when the collision occurs--It can't do this with a knife, because the force is so concentrated, it cuts through the fibers, and sustained through the thrust so the material doesn't have as much stopping power. While armor plates are a bit of a different story, the same basic principle still applies, and a heated blade designed for such use could likely penetrate quite easily. Even if you throw out that, no armor is absolute, and there are always spaces between the plates. that can be exploited. The game may not always demonstrate this, since it's too much processing power to ensure Shepard's hand always find an opening in the armor, but it's not a unreasonable claim to say in the "actual" Mass Effect universe Shepard does always go for the opening.

The games are not a perfect simulation of the universe. They are an interactive representation.

-Tolan

[Darkhour]

Black Raptor wrote...

Darkhour wrote...



What things?

Bullet proof vests before the 1990's. c'mon, it's not hard to think of examples yourself surely?

Darkhour wrote...
Shepard isn't forcing anything through a ******. It's just a quick thrust.

How can you tell it isn't a quick thrust aimed at a ******? 
Not that it matters anyway. Armour doesn't completely stop bullets in ME so there is no reason why it should completely stop blades.

Darkhour wrote...
Shepard and crew bleed because armor cannot regenerate and thus it isn't represented.  Ergo, Shepard and his squad don't have armor mechanics. All Shepard's upgrades are based aroun dhis health/physical body being strengthened. But every other force out there does utilize armor mechanics (well, those with armor anyway). I have to assume armor is "canon", but isn't on playable Shepard do to game mechanics.

Completely ignoring the fact that your enemies bleed too when their shields go down and you are targetting their health. 
If you are talking about armour as in the yellow health bar, then no, Shepard doesn't have this unless you count the tech armour. (which is itself made out of omnitoolness so it's not unforseable that it can be penertrated by a omniblade.)
Armour, as in the item of clothing you're forced to wear while out of the Normandy, and what is similarly worn by mercs, (and the guy you see get stabbed by the omniblade in the demo) does not stop bullets. You bleed when it gets shot. Your enemies bleed when they get shot. This is the armour we're talking about and there is no reason why an omni blade wouldn't work against it. 

Darkhour wrote...
An omniblade is fine. An omni blade that can cut through armor like butter... not so much.

Why not? Lets say that your omni tool constructs a blade which is then either heated up to a high temperature or vibrated incredibly fast. Could cut through butter and armour quite easily even if all my other assumptions about the armour people wear in the game is wrong.  

1. A knife cannot puncture a bullet proof vest like a hot knife through butter. It will only get so far through before is snags on the material. Besides, mass effect armor is more similar to a vest with a steel/ceramic plate insert.

2. Show me a screen capture of Shepard's pinpoint incision through an armor ******. Not saying that he isn't going for some weak point. It's just that it's speculation on your part for the sake of your argument. He does the exactly same brute force motion regardless of who he is stabbing.

3. A mass accelerator tears through armor eventually, but not in a single hit until it's a powerful sniper rifle. I don't have any of the weapon packs, but the retail sniper rifles cannot 1-hit armored foes with a chest shot. Shielded, yes, but not armored.

4. Yes, they bleed when you target their health. But some enemies have barriers, armor and health.  The armor works like a non-regenerating barrier. There is no blood splatter until the defenses are gone.

5. Even a quickly oscilating blade would not cut through metal like butter. What would happen is, if you keep applying pressure, it would "melt" through the armor. A molecular blade would hypothetically cut through it like butter because its edges would go clean through the molecular bonds of the arrmor's material.

My guess is that they are going to say it is a molecular blade. Otherwise, if the krogan codex is correct, the omniblade will be ineffectual against krogans. Only a molecular blade can cut through their hide. Then again, they retconned thermo clips (humans on Aeia had them, the collectors used them, and geth used the same type compatible with everyone else) so they might just retcon krogan skin. 

Modifié par Darkhour, 11 juin 2011 - 10:17 .

[Darkhour]

JMTolan wrote...

The games are not a perfect simulation of the universe.

I know.  If anyone is taking this conversation too seriously they should probably take a chill pill.

[Pride Demon]

Darkhour wrote...

It draws blood like a knife.

A subdermal (not talking about outside folgoration, the shock is generated inside the target) electrical shock of sufficient potency litterally makes the skin around it explode...
I'd say that would spill blood...

[JayhartRIC]

It is indeed a diamond molecular blade. You can find the tweet in the omni-tool thread.

[TheTouch]

Smilietime wrote...

I mean, I understand Haptic adaptive Interfaces. And omni-tools make sense; the orange light is just an interface.

But how can you attack someone with just plain light (that's not a beam weapon?)

Mass Effect is pretty hard science fiction (possibly making an exception for thermal clips). Exotic matter (Ezzo) can do a lot of things. But, in Mass Effect 3, we're using Omni-tools as weapons... Light does not work that way...

We can already use lasers to affect other substances.  It's not too much of a stretch to imagine that omni-blades are just super-concentrated, short-range lasers burning through your enemies.  Plus Einstein showed us that all matter is merely energy.  I think it's quite likely that future tech will be able to harness massless energy particles (IE photons) to produce physically interactive tools (like the omni-blade).

Really, of all the things in Mass Effect, and indeed all of science fiction, energy swords barely register on the WTF-o-meter.

[Gill Kaiser]

I have no problem with the Omni-Blade. The Omnitool was always able to manufacture parts, and it could always be touched.

[MickHam]

A wizard did it...