327 réponses à ce sujet

[SicoWolf-]

Il Divo wrote...

Obsidian will never reach Bioware-level quality. And it's not because their games are necessarily inferior, but because every Obsidian game has a track record suffering massively from bugs, without exception.

KotOR 2
Neverwinter Nights 2
Alpha Protocol
Fallout: New Vegas

I'm curious to see how Dungeon Siege 3 turns out, given Obsidian's track record. If they could actually get some proper development time, I would prefer Obsidian to Bioware as a developer.

All of which are fixed through patches, be it official or fan made.

Obsidian would do fine if they had the manpower and time that companies like BioWare (though less so these days apparently) and Blizzard do.

NWN2 was an amazing experience once it was patched up. One of my all time favorites.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mrcrusty wrote...

Save game bug has long been fixed I believe. I never got it, so meh. But I think that was an issue corrected months ago.

Unfortunately, we don't get to install patch components piecemeal.

I spent many months not patching NWN2 because I didn't want to lose the proper implementation of friendly fire that had been in the release version.

Oddly enough, NWN did the same thing.  At release, FF worked properly, but then they removed it because it was breaking some of the encounters.  And then Obsidian had exactly the same problem in NWN2.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

-Semper- wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

I don't know about fact, but in all honesty, Chris Avellone & George Zeits > Bioware.

pls don't miss the jack of all trades sawyer.

He's more of THE ULTIMATE DESIGNER rather than a writer... then again, he did write Chief Hanlon's dialog.

http://www.youtube.c...7G0vsk#t=18m12s

[-Semper-]

mrcrusty wrote...

He's more of THE ULTIMATE DESIGNER rather than a writer... then again, he did write Chief Hanlon's dialog.

yeah, that was great. besides i thought he was the main writer in aliens crucial und project jefferson. while nothing detailed is known about crucial, the black hound should have become a masterpiece. sadly both of them were canceled.

[TheBlackBaron]

You know, if Bioware and Obsidian were to team-up and co-develop a game - any game, not just DA3 - that just might be the greatest RPG of all time.

To be honest, as of late I feel like Obsidian is better than Bioware in the fields of writing and world design. They've just never managed to get that QA monkey off their back.

[nijnij]

I guess that was long ago so it's probably not representative of their current work but I remember playing through the Dungeon Siege 1 demo which is pretty long and finding the story as bland as can be... Made Diablo 2's plot sound brilliant.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Dungeon Siege 3 is the only one that's theirs. They didn't do DS 1/2.

[Cutlass Jack]

nijnij wrote...

I guess that was long ago so it's probably not representative of their current work but I remember playing through the Dungeon Siege 1 demo which is pretty long and finding the story as bland as can be... Made Diablo 2's plot sound brilliant.

Obsidian didn't do the two Dungeon Sieges. That was Chris Taylor and Gas Powered Games. They're doing the third one where all they seem to be keeping is the name. Shame really. Not in plot per se, but in the approach the game took. They tossed out everything that made it different from Diablo from the look of it.

But PC Demo will be out in a week so I'll wait before fully condemning it.

[nijnij]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

nijnij wrote...

I guess that was long ago so it's probably not representative of their current work but I remember playing through the Dungeon Siege 1 demo which is pretty long and finding the story as bland as can be... Made Diablo 2's plot sound brilliant.

Obsidian didn't do the two Dungeon Sieges. That was Chris Taylor and Gas Powered Games. They're doing the third one where all they seem to be keeping is the name. Shame really. Not in plot per se, but in the approach the game took. They tossed out everything that made it different from Diablo from the look of it.

But PC Demo will be out in a week so I'll wait before fully condemning it.

I had actually enjoyed the gameplay, first party-based RPG I remember trying. Just the whole "ugly humanoids attacking peaceful farm" thing that seemed a bit generic (though it's arguably usable if it's just a starting point).

[SicoWolf-]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

nijnij wrote...

I guess that was long ago so it's probably not representative of their current work but I remember playing through the Dungeon Siege 1 demo which is pretty long and finding the story as bland as can be... Made Diablo 2's plot sound brilliant.

Obsidian didn't do the two Dungeon Sieges. That was Chris Taylor and Gas Powered Games. They're doing the third one where all they seem to be keeping is the name. Shame really. Not in plot per se, but in the approach the game took. They tossed out everything that made it different from Diablo from the look of it.

But PC Demo will be out in a week so I'll wait before fully condemning it.

It's an action RPG, so it's hard not to draw comparisons to Diablo. There's no getting around that. People compared the first Dungeon Seige to Diablo as well. In fact, the developers used that to hype the game. That's also not necessarily a bad thing.

However, there are only so many similarities between the two. Perhaps the most significant difference is Dungeon Siege 3's focal point on story telling, including the same kind of dialogue choices you'd expect from a BioWare game or other CRPG. There are already reports saying it's about 60/40 gameplay/story. The game also doesn't force you into an isometric view, though that is an option.

[Cutlass Jack]

SicoWolf- wrote...

However, there are only so many similarities between the two. Perhaps the most significant difference is Dungeon Siege 3's focal point on story telling, including the same kind of dialogue choices you'd expect from a BioWare game or other CRPG. There are already reports saying it's about 60/40 gameplay/story. The game also doesn't force you into an isometric view, though that is an option.

But it does force you into a preset character with a defined class. They removed the character generation and the classless playstyle. And even worse, they removed the Mule.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I wish they didn't call it DS 3. It should really be a Dungeon Siege: Side Game type deal.

But hey, we've seen it happen to the Fallout franchise already... Plus Chris Taylor is a creative consultant on the game, so I guess that counts for something.

[Chromie]

mrcrusty wrote...

I wish they didn't call it DS 3. It should really be a Dungeon Siege: Side Game type deal.

But hey, we've seen it happen to the Fallout franchise already... Plus Chris Taylor is a creative consultant on the game, so I guess that counts for something.

[In Exile]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...
Based on the quality of Dragon Age 2 verse the quality of Obsidians past three games, I have reached the opinion that Obsidian's team is better qualified to make Dragon Age 3 due to the underwhelming qualifications of the current team BioWare/EA has assigned to the Dragon Age franchise. To dispute this would be to ignore the overwhelmingly negative response to DA2 as well as the continued success of the Fallout franchise, dispite personal opinions of the game, which have no bearing on the discussion... you know since it has outsold DA2 and been moderately better received AND a-helluva-lot more support for the game has been given compared to DA2.

New Vegas ... sold as much as Fallout 3. And Fallout 3 was an anti-RPG mess made by Bestheda. What Obsidian managed to do was ride the coattails of a succesful franchise, keeping everything as close to as possible as to the original while throwing a few bones to the RPG crowd, and proceeded to be just as succesful.

In fact, Fallout 3 sold more than DA:O, so that tells us that Bestheda is the true King, who should take over Dragon Age from Bioware.

[In Exile]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

But it does force you into a preset character with a defined class. They removed the character generation and the classless playstyle. And even worse, they removed the Mule.

It also either forces you to get stuck with a single CPU controlled companion if you don't want multiplayer. The game may work for some, but it's 100% a pass for me.

If they're smart, though, they should release a dev kit for the PC. They could try and get at least some NWN magic back if people could build modules.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Obsidian seems to be on a rollercoaster sometimes since they reformed from Black Isle Studios. I loved the Icewind Dale romps in the Infinity Engine, KotOR 2 was kind of sad due to being rushed. NWN 2 was frustrating due to bugs and being a little rushed, though the story was far superior to the utter junk of NWN 1's OC story and I haven't played Alpha Protocol yet, or New Vegas. It's up and down for Obsidian, sometimes I really enjoy their work, sometimes it's kinda rough. If Bioware intends DA 3 to go further down the path of DA 2, I sure hope Obsidian takes over because they can't wreck the series more for me than Bioware has already.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

It also either forces you to get stuck with a single CPU controlled companion if you don't want multiplayer.

I didn't know that.  That's not good.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Yeah, I haven't been liking much of anything I've heard about DS 3 yet.

[Anathemic]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Yeah, I haven't been liking much of anything I've heard about DS 3 yet.

There's always Diablo 3!

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

That's true. I never really enjoyed Diablo much after the first game unfortunately. I do have to say that Blizzard does have a successful mentality to building sequels. Diablo 3 keeps much of what was successful, fun and visually identifiable about the first two games while updating graphics and gameplay features.

[In Exile]

XxTaLoNxX wrote...

While true, let me point out something. DA2 sold the units it sold because BioWare... how did you put it? Oh yes, "BioWare managed to ride the coattails of a successful franchise".

That's ridiculous. Bioware 'rode the cottails' of their own franchise. That it failed to live up to DA:O is a different issue; they didn't throw themselves at an already successful franchise that allegedly betrayed an RPG, recycle everything about the game and then only change very superficial aspects to pander to a minor audience.

DA2 wasn't a great game; but Bioware didn't add a dialogue wheel to COD, which is what Obsidian effectively did with New Vegas. Given how badly Bioware is slandered for even trying to appeal to that crowd, I can't see how Obsidian latching on to a game that already pandered to them something to value.

See this time I found a way to compare apples to apples. Both studios rode the "success-train" of the previous games. But how is Obsidian different? Well, F:NV didn't disappoint the Fallout 3 fans after the serious bugs got fixed, where DA2 is still a disappointment after they fixed the Sebastion/Isabella reputation bugs.

No, Obsidian just took a game that already pandered to the mass and destroyed a hallowed RPG series, changed effectively nothing, and then added on an original Fallout-style story and a tacked on 'hardcore' mode.

Yes, Obsidian released an identical game with better writing than Bestheda. That doesn't qualify them to do anything other than show that 2 out of 3 times, they can not screw up someone else's success.

Oh, and Obsidian actually had DLC ready for F:NV planned and 2 completed at launch... BioWare/EA like to wait and see how the $$$ plays into their DLC plans.

Wait, you're using the fact that Obsidian was ready to nickle and dime people with already finished content as a good thing?

Look, I really like Obsidian and wish them a lot of success, but this is getting silly.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

New Vegas and Dragon Age: Origins are the two games with the strongest RPG elements of any game on the mainstream market this side of NWN 2.

I'm sorry you think that New Vegas, or Fallout 3 for that matter was aimed at the CoD crowd. Fallout: New Vegas is no more aimed at the CoD crowd than Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is.

Fallout 3 was essentially Morrowind with guns, less focus on stats, logical inconsistency and crappy writing. Or conversely, Oblivion with guns, more focus on stats, logical inconsistency and similar writing. You could make the argument that Fallout 3 was aimed at such a crowd, but really, they went for the Elder Scrolls crowd more than anything.

The "changed effectively nothing" line is typical of someone who has looked at, but not played the game or the originals. At least not extensively.

It's biggest changes are in the writing, logical consistency (something Dragon Age 2 utterly fails at) and quest design. When you look at the game in terms of writing, quest design and setting, it is much closer to the originals. Chief Hanlon, Vault 11, No-Bark Noonan and various characters, quests, writing, etc of New Vegas easily match the quality of the originals.

I don't get my roleplay through isometric camera view and turn based combat (though it's nice), I get my roleplay from being given the freedom to create the character I want, play the way I want and have the game respond to those choices through the narrative, character system, or through other means.

This is something New Vegas provides in droves, especially after mods.

I say this as a person whose first RPG was Fallout.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 04 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[Denizen89]

I say maybe. Because one new vegas has been fixed of most of those game breaking glitches. Another one is that I have little faith in this bunker mentality of a development team. Not to mention the 18 month design and release thing is just ignorant. I understand you want to be a big boy development company but releasing half done games isn't what you do. But Obsidian is known for having bad glitches and still releasing it on the public.