163 réponses à ce sujet

[Jack-Nader]

thendcomes wrote...

I did misunderstand. So it's not just the speed, it's the combat in general that's been dumbed down to the point where it's not enjoyable. Can't argue with that.
.

This is correct.

[rumination888]

The biggest issue I have with warrior isn't even class specific.  It is
the elemental weapons.  Their is an obvious disparity between elemental
types.  Bioware has given all the best elemental weapons to sword and
shield and left two hander out.

While I agree warriors/rogues shouldn't have been given elemental weapons, BioWare didn't give all the best elemental weapons to SnS. All of the best elemental weapons belong to 2H, but they all come in during the last act.

Infact, without DLC, all of the elemental weapons for warriors/rogues come in Act 3. Its pretty obvious that elemental weapons for non-mages were a last minute addition.(or a huge mistake on the part of the itemizer that BioWare decided to roll with when they created the item pack DLC)

Modifié par rumination888, 07 juin 2011 - 03:37 .

[mr_afk]

I don't think bioware has 'lost a fan' or anything extreme like that in my case. I can't say that a I liked the patch overly much but I've played the game so many times that it was already approaching its expiry date. The combat and the possibilities for creative work-arounds for the more challenging encounters gave the game its only replay value (story didn't really have enough variation) and once you've played through each class several times there's not much drive to play the game. As it is the two dragonage titles and the many other bioware rpgs are among my most played games (have seriously lost count for origins).

I think there should either be no elemental weapons or more, for non-mage classes (e.g. more than just fire for bows). If elemental weapons are somehow made to make sense in the lore I see nothing wrong with elemental weapons- though maybe their base damage should be reduced a bit or physical weapons buffed a bit, because there's much more +%elemental gear than physical and physical is generally crapper due to armour anyway.


On another note, one of my main issues is that the warrior and DW rogue hawke have ridiculously good specialisations that render other companions of the same type redundant and pretty terrible in comparison. Well, now that reaver has been nerfed into oblivion and I'm not too sure what the deal is with berserker it may be slightly changed, but imo there was almost never a need for fenris, carver, or isabela- and only a very situational need for aveline (as there is still a minor need for CCC setups/minor tanking).

Mage hawke on the other hand had much more balanced specialisations which kept hawke at a less over-powered/godly status while the mage companions had pretty strong and unique specialisations. The archer companions were also alright. This and friendly fire for me led to the situation of almost always using mage companions and almost never using isabela/fenris etc.

Having the same or similar party setup the entire game is pretty boring after a while- and when the optimal party setup is the same across playthroughs of different classes it really detracts from the replay value. Of course you could use less than optimal party setups but what I'm referring to is the lack of balanced companions = only several optimal party selections = less ability to experiment and find niche party builds etc.


As for the rest of the system, I suppose I am of the school of thought that cross-class talents (e.g. multiclassing) is the way to go but I suppose with only three classes it may be hard to link them yet maintain a distinct difference between classes. However using some sort of triangle system you could quite easily come up with something;
e.g. Mage+Warrior = Battle Mage (uses weapons/close combat spells)


blahh, I'll go attempt tranquility again now/see how much further I can get myself through my mage playthrough..

[AreleX]

rumination888 wrote...

While I agree warriors/rogues shouldn't have been given elemental weapons, BioWare didn't give all the best elemental weapons to SnS. All of the best elemental weapons belong to 2H, but they all come in during the last act.

Infact, without DLC, all of the elemental weapons for warriors/rogues come in Act 3. Its pretty obvious that elemental weapons for non-mages were a last minute addition.(or a huge mistake on the part of the itemizer that BioWare decided to roll with when they created the item pack DLC)

That's the issue, though. SnS has TWO available from the start (one of which is usable the whole game, and will trivialize entire portions of it), and if an enemy resists one, it is likely weak to the other, if I remember right. All 2H has until Act III is the garbage Anderfel.

By Act III, you'll already be facerolling everything anyways, so unless you're min/maxing, there's really no point to getting them so late. They should either spread them out better for warriors and rogues, or remove them entirely. The way they have things now is incredibly unbalanced.

Modifié par AreleX, 07 juin 2011 - 04:24 .

[rumination888]

AreleX wrote...

That's the issue, though. SnS has TWO
available from the start (one of which is usable the whole game, and
will trivialize entire portions of it), and if an enemy resists one, it
is likely weak to the other, if I remember right. All 2H has until Act
III is the garbage Anderfel.

By Act III, you'll already be
facerolling everything anyways, so unless you're min/maxing, there's
really no point to getting them so late. They should either spread them
out better for warriors and rogues, or remove them entirely. The way
they have things now is incredibly unbalanced.

And if you don't have DLC? What then?

[Jack-Nader]

My vote is to remove all elemental damage for warriors and rogues. Short of that, flood the game with them. The second option would require a massive game rebalacing tho.

[thendcomes]

Jack-Nader wrote...

My vote is to remove all elemental damage for warriors and rogues. Short of that, flood the game with them. The second option would require a massive game rebalacing tho.

At least that would make solo somewhat challenging.  The DLC gear kinda broke the game.  I know an option is to not use it, but I can't get myself to do it.  I'm sure most people would have a hard time of that.

[AreleX]

rumination888 wrote...

And if you don't have DLC? What then?

then you should be ashamed of yourself for lining gamestop's pockets and buying used. shame!

but really, i proceed under the assumption that all posters have bought the game new, and at least have TBE. you make a fair point.

[SuicidalBaby]

The problem falls to the understanding of how you make a game difficulty challenging, not frustrating. I believe these are 2 separate states a player can fall in to. By changing basic attributes of the game instead of fixing what are clearly broken mechanics they have made this game worth less than the original product.

I would have liked to see the glaring issues solved before being used as a test subject, again.
Would it have been so hard to simply deal with the bugs prior to altering the basic flow of combat? Then see how those simple fixes alter the feel of the game to determine if such broad changes are a necessity.

Knockback was negligible before, it could be adapted to, now its irrelevant.
The problem wasnt health so much as it was the bugged functionality and broken mechanics of combat that made the game frustrating, not difficult. A game should never frustrate the player. It should challenge them in new ways. This is a distinction that I believe is being confused universally with this game.

[AreleX]

I agree. It's like a restaurant fixing part of the wrong order by giving an entirely different meal.

[mr_afk]

@Jack-Nader - I tried tranquility again and got 13seconds. I think I'll leave it at that, don't think I can beat your archer's 10seconds.
tranquility speed run

so when will you and Arelex start up the next speed run thread? the gameplay has already become mind-numbingly easy so having times to aim at could be nice haha.

Modifié par mr_afk, 07 juin 2011 - 10:23 .

[Jack-Nader]

Hey, that's actually pretty cool. I never thought to use chain lightning to finnish the mobs. It's certainly less dangerous than what I was doing

[Mr_Raider]

Have you guys tried late act II fights? The game gets harder.

[mr_afk]

well that's good news!
I was going through the end of act1/deep roads with a DW rogue and it was ridiculously easy-
So I started a mage playthrough instead (which isn't quite as easy but is still a lot simpler).

Actually I think I remember Apathy saying something about Xebenkeck been harder too. I haven't been playing DA2 much recently but I might see if I can find an old save and try out some of the act2 fights. Only issue is that warriors have been seriously nerfed so I probably can't solo it anymore

[Jack-Nader]

The game can't get harder. That's just not logical.

[ApostleinTriumph]

Luke Barrett wrote...

Oh, I was serious. I doubt it will happen but my dream is to make the game so challenging all the hardcore folk will give up and lower the difficulty. I'm cruel like that.

[edit: I was trying to make a combo Bwhaha smiley and that's what I came up with. Perhaps writing bwahaha would have been better...]

I'm playing on hard and I lowered difficulty only twice so far: Arishok duel and the ridiculous earth spirit or whatever in deep roads. Those two fights are really really hard. I thought about doing it against Maden (the arcane horror you face in wounded coast after finding the parchement), since he pretty much one shots your party members, but then I changed my composition a bit, brought merril in, and with dispel magic, I was able to best him. Still, without Merril, I'd get my ass handed to me again.

I'm sure if I had some specific talents (like Decoy) I would also defeat Arishok with my Rogue, but since I went Assassin/Duelist, I didn't have it, and since whenever he hits you you get knockbacked, and he chugs potions, the thing is really really hard with my class setup. Got it down to normal, killed him after two tries.

The boss in Deep Roads however, is downright ridiculous. He one-two shots your tank, you cannot do anything, it kills your party members too, and the spirits that spawn, are a mess to deal with since they hit like 30% of your HP.

I haven't finished the game yet, so I don't know if I'm going to lower it again.

[lazuli]

So are Assassins still a pain? Maybe I'll hold off on attempting another playthrough.

[ryoldschool]

ApostleinTriumph wrote...

Luke Barrett wrote...

Oh, I was serious. I doubt it will happen but my dream is to make the game so challenging all the hardcore folk will give up and lower the difficulty. I'm cruel like that.

[edit: I was trying to make a combo Bwhaha smiley and that's what I came up with. Perhaps writing bwahaha would have been better...]

I'm playing on hard and I lowered difficulty only twice so far: Arishok duel and the ridiculous earth spirit or whatever in deep roads. Those two fights are really really hard. I thought about doing it against Maden (the arcane horror you face in wounded coast after finding the parchement), since he pretty much one shots your party members, but then I changed my composition a bit, brought merril in, and with dispel magic, I was able to best him. Still, without Merril, I'd get my ass handed to me again.

I'm sure if I had some specific talents (like Decoy) I would also defeat Arishok with my Rogue, but since I went Assassin/Duelist, I didn't have it, and since whenever he hits you you get knockbacked, and he chugs potions, the thing is really really hard with my class setup. Got it down to normal, killed him after two tries.

The boss in Deep Roads however, is downright ridiculous. He one-two shots your tank, you cannot do anything, it kills your party members too, and the spirits that spawn, are a mess to deal with since they hit like 30% of your HP.

I haven't finished the game yet, so I don't know if I'm going to lower it again.

I play on hard difficulity and had the same experience as you the first times I did deep roads. Never duel the Arishok because it just takes too long and teammates can't help.  Two things helped - later playthroughs are easier because you know what is happening, and I started using Sucidial Baby's companion builds ( and tactics ).  Also the DLC has items for each companion that helps a lot.  Personally I think that these guys that say Nightmare is too easy are really, really good players - got to tip your hats to them.

[ryoldschool]

lazuli wrote...

So are Assassins still a pain? Maybe I'll hold off on attempting another playthrough.

I found some strange effects when in Act II you take out that cave with slavers.  The Assassins were unstoppable in there.  I tried it about 4 times, and never had that much trouble before ( checked the difficulity a bunch of times ).  I play on xbox and was wondering if the game gets confused sometimes.  So I restarted the xbox again and replayed and it was quite different ( tolerable ).

[AreleX]

Mr_Raider wrote...

Have you guys tried late act II fights? The game gets harder.

I cleared Xebenkeck with Warrior twice as fast as I did pre patch, which means around 1 minute. Without kiting out into the hallway.

I disagree.

Modifié par AreleX, 07 juin 2011 - 07:05 .

[ApostleinTriumph]

I fought two hard and interesting battles today. When they ended, I felt satisfied and felt like my work paid off. (patch version1.03)

I am playing on hard. Both fights took around 20 minutes, around 20 or more potions, careful positioning of party members and excessive pausing to give orders to all of them. The fights are the High Dragon and the demon you fight after you kill the three revenants after finding the parchments.

I had to do my best to win, especially on the latter, positioning of party members to avoid the magic trap on ground and focus firing adds etc, it felt soooooooooo good after beating them.

Hats off to the designers who worked on these two imo.

[R0vena]

I run through Act 3 on NM and thought that High Dragon was easier than before and Hybris was a bit harder (probably because he doesn't paralyze himself anymore). Otherwise I didn't notice much change in difficulty, but I am not an optimizer (but love watching speedruns of these guys, they are absolutely amazing. Too bad I prefer party members I like, not the ones who make the fights easier.. O well, this is my problem. Still picked a lot of tips from the guides - thank you, Arelex and Co.)
Started a new game with the mage (SH-FM) and was amazed how easy Act 1 feels so far. There is really a big difference. Not sure what to make of it. On one side, now I really can run with any party I want, on the other... I had to check settings couple of times to be sure I am still on NM.

[thendcomes]

High Dragon was nerfed, badly in my opinion. When he is perched up on the hill, his fireballs are no longer heat seeking. That was significant damage that you were forced to absorb and heal through. Now it's all easily dodged.

Of course, if you have fire warding runes, then he is still cheese.

[Apathy1989]

ok I just finished my SnS warrior playthrough. Went with typical Reaver/Berserker setup.

Usual team was:
Anders - Creation/Arcane/Spirit (healing, buffing, barrier, gylphs as needed, spirit bolt on disorientated foes, crushing prison on staggered elites)
Isabela - DW/Scoundral/Swashbuckler (putting out crazy damage, explosive strike on staggered, generally trying to stay alive)
Sabastian - Archery/Scoundral/Royal Archer (putting out damage, wounding arrow, disorientating elites/mages with pinning shot, trying to stay alive)


Now the fights:
Hybris - Harder since he actually fought back rather than get stuck in his own AoE prison
Orsino - Ridiculously easy now. I dropped him in ~10 seconds, then went around cleaning up his skeletons, repeating this. He no longer lasts long enough to do any real attacks.
Meredith - Easier, but she was never that hard. I only find the mob of statues to be annoying.
High Dragon - I did this without fire runes since the fire no longer tracks you. Was fun to monitor the dragon and move while fighting the other dragons, but it was noticably easier than before despite having no fire resists.
Xebenkeck - I've never been able to clear that room without pulling, so no surprise I couldn't still. No knockdowns would probably make it easier, but then more damage coming in than before means my support died.
Brekker - Easy as toss.



I did find that Sacrificial Frenzy is basically a useless skill now though. It only lasts 10 seconds, which was ok before since the damage bonus was sometimes awesome. Now its only marginal, and when berserker and cleave must be cast aswell, there is no time to cast this. If they removed the cast animation, or improved the skill to a x3-4 multiplier then I would use it again.

Modifié par Apathy1989, 07 juin 2011 - 11:02 .

[Jack-Nader]

I've found a pretty nasty bug with the sunder talent. The game seems to be randomly removing the +10% critical chance on game load and then not reapplying it. I end up with a character that is bleeding critical chance % to the point I actually get a negative critical chance score.