Reading through tis post, got me to thinking. So I started digging for info, and found this social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/304/index/6589945&lf=8
About Leliana's cameo appearance...
Débuté par
Phoenix_Loftian
, juin 03 2011 05:57
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#27
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 01:00
Phoenix_Loftian
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Wow, my respect for Gaider just went way up. Honestly, any other development team wouldn't care to. It takes a lot of patience to deal with the more... vocal fans, that's for sure. I'd probably have cursed back at a few of them if I were him.
I wasn't all that annoyed with Leliana's appearance, more it's context, and what bothered me more was Anders statement about 'two mages' helping defeat the Blight (if your Warden wasn't a mage). I didn't like that comment because I never recruited Wynne in the playthrough I imported.
I wasn't all that annoyed with Leliana's appearance, more it's context, and what bothered me more was Anders statement about 'two mages' helping defeat the Blight (if your Warden wasn't a mage). I didn't like that comment because I never recruited Wynne in the playthrough I imported.
#28
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 02:02
Sajuro
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and all to stop the talking darkspawn who have been abducting Ferelden villages.lobi wrote...
Only Tevinter can provide the funding and logistical support for her to accomplish the impossible.Sajuro wrote...
Her body was recovered and through a combination of science and blood magic, she was brought back by the Andraste Project.Tirfan wrote...
Leliana is dead, dead, she had her head chopped off by the warden.. and still she appears at the end of DA2.. makes me just sad and I never get tired of pointing this out. Altough - if I'm given the chance to decapitate her again I'm all for it.
#29
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 03:27
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At OP: kudos for putting some thought in to this. I don't have a specific theory of my own, but I definitely think all of the Wardens' "important business" in Kirkwall and the Grand Divine spying on Kirkwall and Flemeth's need to be secretly transported just outside of Kirkwall is no coincidence. The idol and the ancient thaig attracted a lot of powerful folks.
But I don't think Lelianna was anything more than what she was portrayed as in DAO. I think she was a bard for Marjolaine, she was betrayed, she was rescued by a chantry sister, she escaped to Lothering, she met the Warden and helped defeat the Blight.
Side Note: The Guardian makes it quite clear Lelianna wasn't crazy, she was just an attention seeking liar. She never believed the Maker spoke to her.
Back on point: What Lelianna became AFTER DAO . . . that will be interesting to see unfold. As pointed out, the current Divine is the woman who rescued Lelianna. Perhaps the Wardens decided to break their own rules and work with the Chantry. Perhaps the Hero of Fereldan found Morrigan, discovered some plot of Flemeth's and discovered it had something to do with the Darkspawn, so he/she broke the rules and hooked up with the Chantry. Who knows? It will be interesting to see.
But I think Lel's story is "as told" up through the end of Origins.
But I don't think Lelianna was anything more than what she was portrayed as in DAO. I think she was a bard for Marjolaine, she was betrayed, she was rescued by a chantry sister, she escaped to Lothering, she met the Warden and helped defeat the Blight.
Side Note: The Guardian makes it quite clear Lelianna wasn't crazy, she was just an attention seeking liar. She never believed the Maker spoke to her.
Back on point: What Lelianna became AFTER DAO . . . that will be interesting to see unfold. As pointed out, the current Divine is the woman who rescued Lelianna. Perhaps the Wardens decided to break their own rules and work with the Chantry. Perhaps the Hero of Fereldan found Morrigan, discovered some plot of Flemeth's and discovered it had something to do with the Darkspawn, so he/she broke the rules and hooked up with the Chantry. Who knows? It will be interesting to see.
But I think Lel's story is "as told" up through the end of Origins.
#30
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 05:40
Birdhive
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I recently played DAO again and noticed that Leliana's amulet is called "Seeker's Amulet" (or maybe "Amulet of the Seeker", anyway--it's "Seeker" something). Now I absolutely think she has been a Chantry plant all along. Hm. It was a 'plant' which told her to help the Warden, wasn't it? *cue dramatic music*
By the end of this recent Origins playthrough, though my Warden (mage!) had made a good friend of Leliana previously, every time I clicked on her in camp, after she said "I know that look, you have got something on your mind"--which I guess was supposed to seem friendly-gossipy, but felt kind of pushy--my Warden was all "uh, nevermind". I mean, the dang Seeker's Amulet, coupled with what she said about becoming the woman that people are interested in/want for her role as a bard--sheesh. She cannot be trusted!
I think she has been a Seeker since we met her in Origins. In DA2, she obviously no longer has an interest in lovely shoes, because she is wearing some serious clodhoppers as Sister Nightingale. The puppyboots were a lie! I bet DA2 Leliana also ate DAO Leliana's pet nug.
Thanks to this thread though, I learned that the current (DA2) Divine was the woman from Leliana's song-- I do tend to carelessly speed-read those chantry codex entries . . .
By the end of this recent Origins playthrough, though my Warden (mage!) had made a good friend of Leliana previously, every time I clicked on her in camp, after she said "I know that look, you have got something on your mind"--which I guess was supposed to seem friendly-gossipy, but felt kind of pushy--my Warden was all "uh, nevermind". I mean, the dang Seeker's Amulet, coupled with what she said about becoming the woman that people are interested in/want for her role as a bard--sheesh. She cannot be trusted!
I think she has been a Seeker since we met her in Origins. In DA2, she obviously no longer has an interest in lovely shoes, because she is wearing some serious clodhoppers as Sister Nightingale. The puppyboots were a lie! I bet DA2 Leliana also ate DAO Leliana's pet nug.
Thanks to this thread though, I learned that the current (DA2) Divine was the woman from Leliana's song-- I do tend to carelessly speed-read those chantry codex entries . . .
#31
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 06:05
sphinxess
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I dont see how you can work with the seekers if you find out their leader is <or was> a bard - Bards lie - you can't trust any deals that are made...
#32
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 08:49
HSHAW
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For clarification, the item text for Seeker's Circle makes it clear that it is an amulet commonly given out by the chantry rather than anything.
#33
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 10:10
Birdhive
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HSHAW, that's what I'd say too, were I the chantry. 
More chantry-related text I glossed over or forgot, I guess. Hrm. I'm still absolutely wary of Leliana.
More chantry-related text I glossed over or forgot, I guess. Hrm. I'm still absolutely wary of Leliana.
#34
Posté 13 juin 2011 - 10:17
LobselVith8
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Phoenix_Loftian wrote...
Wow, my respect for Gaider just went way up. Honestly, any other development team wouldn't care to. It takes a lot of patience to deal with the more... vocal fans, that's for sure. I'd probably have cursed back at a few of them if I were him.
You missed out on Gaider's infamous "mages are only innocent of being mages" and being "exploding kittens" comments when there was discussion of the Circle mages being innocent of Anders actions.
Phoenix_Loftian wrote...
I wasn't all that annoyed with Leliana's appearance, more it's context, and what bothered me more was Anders statement about 'two mages' helping defeat the Blight (if your Warden wasn't a mage). I didn't like that comment because I never recruited Wynne in the playthrough I imported.
I can see why people who killed Leliana are annoyed that she's alive in their playthroughs because it ignores their choice by rectonning her death.
#35
Guest_Hanz54321_*
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 06:06
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LobselVith8 wrote...
I can see why people who killed Leliana are annoyed that she's alive in their playthroughs because it ignores their choice by rectonning her death.
Well those people shouldn't have kicked up dust from the floor during the scuffle. Some of that dust was Andraste's Ashes.
(and a light shines down upon Lelianna, we here a church choir's "Ahhhhh AAAHHH" and the voice of Gaider says, "Let there be Lel." And there was Lel again)
#36
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 11:14
maxernst
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Yeah, given where she died it's not completely implausible. And don't forget Wynne's spirit and healing magic, if you killed them both there, or maybe Wynne's off to resurrect Leli when she runs out on you at camp when you return. Or maybe the Maker himself resurrected Leli, as well as giving her magical visions and producing roses that stay fresh for months after they've been picked.
#37
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 11:35
TEWR
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LobselVith8 wrote...
Phoenix_Loftian wrote...
Wow, my respect for Gaider just went way up. Honestly, any other development team wouldn't care to. It takes a lot of patience to deal with the more... vocal fans, that's for sure. I'd probably have cursed back at a few of them if I were him.
You missed out on Gaider's infamous "mages are only innocent of being mages" and being "exploding kittens" comments when there was discussion of the Circle mages being innocent of Anders actions.Phoenix_Loftian wrote...
I wasn't all that annoyed with Leliana's appearance, more it's context, and what bothered me more was Anders statement about 'two mages' helping defeat the Blight (if your Warden wasn't a mage). I didn't like that comment because I never recruited Wynne in the playthrough I imported.
I can see why people who killed Leliana are annoyed that she's alive in their playthroughs because it ignores their choice by rectonning her death.
The thing is, people didn't take into account a couple of things
The ashes' restorative powers caused by the lyrium.
And she's a bard. She could've known she wasn't going to win and and she tricked the Warden into thinking she was dead.
There are many factors that need to be taken into account. Had the Warden kneeled down and taken her pulse and said "Welp, she's dead." then it's a retcon. For other characters, we saw them die: Howe, Loghain, Zathrian, etc..
The codex, however, isn't enough (at least to me it isn't).
Plus, I don't see the logic in bringing Leliana to the Urn when you're planning on defiling it, unless you're roleplaying a dick. She's vocal about her dislike for it when Kolgrim proposes it. Why would you bring her there when she's said she doesn't like the idea?
Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 14 juin 2011 - 11:37 .
#38
Posté 14 juin 2011 - 11:54
LobselVith8
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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
LobselVith8 wrote...
I can see why people who killed Leliana are annoyed that she's alive in their playthroughs because it ignores their choice by rectonning her death.
The thing is, people didn't take into account a couple of things
The ashes' restorative powers caused by the lyrium.
And she's a bard. She could've known she wasn't going to win and and she tricked the Warden into thinking she was dead.
If a warrior or rogue kills Leliana by stabbing her, or if a mage fries her with his abilities, it's a bit of a stretch to say she faked it. I'm not certain what explanation the developers have planned for those who killed Leliana. Maybe she's an abomination now, who knows...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
There are many factors that need to be taken into account. Had the Warden kneeled down and taken her pulse and said "Welp, she's dead." then it's a retcon. For other characters, we saw them die: Howe, Loghain, Zathrian, etc..
I'd imagine most people who say they cut her head off imagined their respective Wardens cutting her head off. I guess they envisioned themselves in a Ferelden version of Clash of the Titans...
The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The codex, however, isn't enough (at least to me it isn't).
Plus, I don't see the logic in bringing Leliana to the Urn when you're planning on defiling it, unless you're roleplaying a dick. She's vocal about her dislike for it when Kolgrim proposes it. Why would you bring her there when she's said she doesn't like the idea?
My Surana Warden didn't kill her because he trusted her, but had he known Leliana would have turned out to be a Chantry operative who thinks mages gaining autonomy from the Chantry deserves an Exalted March as a response, he would've killed her. If the opportunity arises, the Hero of Ferelden won't make that mistake again.
#39
Posté 15 juin 2011 - 01:11
sphinxess
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LobselVith8 wrote...
My Surana Warden didn't kill her because he trusted her, but had he known Leliana would have turned out to be a Chantry operative who thinks mages gaining autonomy from the Chantry deserves an Exalted March as a response, he would've killed her. If the opportunity arises, the Hero of Ferelden won't make that mistake again.
Amen - though the exalted march threat was a complete bluff - its good against large military targets <qunari invasion, elvish nation> rather a silly idea against a group than can just leave Kirkwall and scatter.
Modifié par sphinxess, 15 juin 2011 - 01:12 .
#40
Posté 15 juin 2011 - 02:57
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Killing Leliana again would be a possible reason for my warden to come out of his life of furthering Morrigans plans, because I just don't want to hear that accent ever again. (and I hate her every other way too.)
#41
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Posté 15 juin 2011 - 09:19
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Looked into this topic myself.
Cassandra (seeker of chantry) is really the illusive man from me2 and has travelled back in time to fund the andraste project to bring Lel back to life.
Was interesting reading the link to the David Gaider response - ive been playing bioware/black isle games since Torment.
David wrote (i think) an unofficial mod to the Throne of Bhaal expansion called ascention - to this day i have never played a better rpg than the Baldurs Gate series and his mod (which changed the final battle with Mellisan at the end of Throne of Bhaal) was truely epic.
In my opinion they will never beat the baldurs gate series in terms of storyline and games are being rushed out these days which is usually an indication of company greed rather than customer satisfaction.
Cassandra (seeker of chantry) is really the illusive man from me2 and has travelled back in time to fund the andraste project to bring Lel back to life.
Was interesting reading the link to the David Gaider response - ive been playing bioware/black isle games since Torment.
David wrote (i think) an unofficial mod to the Throne of Bhaal expansion called ascention - to this day i have never played a better rpg than the Baldurs Gate series and his mod (which changed the final battle with Mellisan at the end of Throne of Bhaal) was truely epic.
In my opinion they will never beat the baldurs gate series in terms of storyline and games are being rushed out these days which is usually an indication of company greed rather than customer satisfaction.
