93 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolenka]

In DA:O, I thought the Rite of Annulment was some sort of ritual that could be done from outside the Circle Tower, which killed everything inside, corrupt or no. Like a kill switch for when it was too dangerous to send in the Templars. Or open the door, for that matter.

Did that change in DA:2? For Meredith, it meant stabbing every mage, one by one.

[Satyricon331]

In DAO, Wynne inferred that since you opened the doors to come in, the Templars were invoking the Right, which to me implies it's a physical slaughter since they have to be there.  Also, David Gaider said it's a right rather than rite, which is another reason to think so.  

Plus, it just makes more sense that the Templars wouldn't be able to cast magic spells (altho the Chantry's hypocritical about magic, so I guess this factor isn't decisive...)

PS, thanks for the no kill-steal mod!

[Wulfram]

It's a Right, not a Rite.

[LobselVith8]

The Right of Annulment is about killing every Circle enchanter, mage, and apprentice in the respective Circle Tower. The mentality is "no survivors," but it can happen. Survivors can be made tranquil instead of being killed, as Gaider noted in another thread regarding this issue.

[Rolenka]

Wulfram wrote...

It's a Right, not a Rite.

That explains it, then.

Maybe Anders should have just used the right of conscription on Meredith.

[Beerfish]

Right, Rite, Write, Wright (Are other languages as screwy as english?)

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Beerfish wrote...

Right, Rite, Write, Wright (Are other languages as screwy as english?)

This reminds me of the skit from Robot Chicken with the girl singing about Homonyms while having Torettes.

[TJPags]

Right of Anullment- go in, kill everything alive, come back out the other side.

Fun times!!!!

[_Aine_]

Well, in DAO it was a rite. In DA2 it was a Right ;D So, same 'cept different

In DA:O, it *seemed* to be the rite of last resort - there is no hope, so exterminate the corrupt to save the rest of us. In DA2 it *seems* like " I am losing my power to a bunch of mages who probably will turn to blood magic to steal my maker-given superiority and power so Smite them all!"

Everyone was bonkers in Kirkwall. The better question is who smites the non-mages for just being a bunch of dumb-asses?

Wipe them all and start again. Run, Hawke! Run!

Modifié par shantisands, 04 juin 2011 - 01:01 .

[dragonflight288]

Everyone was bonkers in Kirkwall. The better question is who smites the non-mages for just being a bunch of dumb-asses?

That's.....one way of putting it. Kind of like the Watchmen. They watch the world and protect it, but who watches the watchmen?

After awhile, you get a card pyramid. One sweep at the bottom and the whole structure falls down all around you.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

In DAO the Templers had called for the 'right' to start the 'right' and/or support. It was basically 'find a way to save the circle before the cavalry shows up.' In DA2 its pretty much 'the cavalry is not coming we have to do it ourselves pick a side we are at war here!'

[dragonflight288]

Which, in my opinion, makes no sense. Meredith is supposed to wait for reinforcements, get authority to perform the Right from a Grand Cleric (who had just died) or the Divine. Seeing as she had neither, it was an act performed because she wanted it done. She was merely waiting for an excuse, whereas Gregoir was actively seeking ways to avoid using the Right.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Which, in my opinion, makes no sense. Meredith is supposed to wait for reinforcements, get authority to perform the Right from a Grand Cleric (who had just died) or the Divine. Seeing as she had neither, it was an act performed because she wanted it done. She was merely waiting for an excuse, whereas Gregoir was actively seeking ways to avoid using the Right.

Oh, it makes sense that she would do it.  It is just wrong.  She wanted something done.  She did it.   People disregard the law all the time.  Especially dictators.  Which is what Meredith is.

[dragonflight288]

I'm not arguing that. I often argue that she is a dictator. They often believe themselves above the law.

[TJPags]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Which, in my opinion, makes no sense. Meredith is supposed to wait for reinforcements, get authority to perform the Right from a Grand Cleric (who had just died) or the Divine. Seeing as she had neither, it was an act performed because she wanted it done. She was merely waiting for an excuse, whereas Gregoir was actively seeking ways to avoid using the Right.

While I won't dispute she was wanting to call the Right for a long time, and was looking for an excuse, she had the legal authority to invoke it herself.  For that, you can thank Anders for killing the Grand Cleric, as well as anyone who might have taken that title.

[dragonflight288]

She would still have to go to the Divine, or an agent of the Divine, aka Leliana.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Um. I'm gunna add... ah.

For reals.

[TJPags]

dragonflight288 wrote...

She would still have to go to the Divine, or an agent of the Divine, aka Leliana.

Umm, no, actually, she wouldn't.

In the situation in which Kirkwall sits PA (Post-Anders) she has the authority of the Grand Cleric.  So said Gaider.  Which he really shouldn't have had to say, since it makes complete and total sense.  However, he did say it.

So, yea - wasn't illegal.

[Satyricon331]

dragonflight288 wrote...
She would still have to go to the Divine, or an agent of the Divine, aka Leliana.

I'm not going to hunt for it, but there was a thread where IanPolaris raised this idea, and David Gaider said something like the chain of command regarding the Right was such that if the local authority (Grand Cleric) was dead and the Divine remote, then the Knight Commander could exercise her own judgment rather than sending word to Val Royeaux to ask permission.  The thread had quite the fireworks.

Modifié par Satyricon331, 04 juin 2011 - 04:15 .

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Hmm... interesting. I didn't know this was Word of God. Okay. So maybe it was legal...

Something to think about.

[dragonflight288]

Okay, it was legal. I admit that I hadn't read that thread so yeah. But she still was simply waiting for an excuse to annul the circle. And right before the chantry went up in smoke, she looked ready to attack Orsino for wanting to involve the Grand Cleric, who would be the only person who could legally stop Meredith from doing anything.

[IanPolaris]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Okay, it was legal. I admit that I hadn't read that thread so yeah. But she still was simply waiting for an excuse to annul the circle. And right before the chantry went up in smoke, she looked ready to attack Orsino for wanting to involve the Grand Cleric, who would be the only person who could legally stop Meredith from doing anything.

DG has said it was legal, yes, but it was legal only by the barest of legal technicalities.  Not even most of the Templars thought the RIght was justified.  The reason it was "legal" (per DG) was so that in an emergency when the Knight Commander were genuinely unable to contact the current Grand Cleric, the KC could still act.  KC Meredith willfully and dishonestly stretches this hyper-technicality to the breaking point and beyond.  You can be SURE that it's a good thing that Hawke killed Meredith because the Seekers aka Divine probably would have done it herself.  You can be sure after the fecal matter hit the fan that the first thing from the Divine's handpicked Seeker Inquisitor to Meredith would have been, "So please explain WHY you couldn't lock the gallows down and get the Right from the Divine like you should have?"

In short, although legal, it was clear and overt abuse of authority that was never meant to be in the Knight Commander's hands in the first place.

-Polaris

[nos_astra]

IanPolaris wrote...
DG has said it was legal, yes, but it was legal only by the barest of legal technicalities. Not even most of the Templars thought the RIght was justified.

Which is kind of ridiculous considering the situation in Kirkwall. The DAO codex entry about the first Right of Annulment performed stated it was done for ONE single abomination and a handful of blood mages.

The Kirkwall Circle is overpopulated (I assume), there is unrest, mages are escaping (helped by a mage underground organization) and Kirkwall is teeming with blood mages and demons. At one point templar initiates are being abducted and abused in blood magic rituals. Oh, and the First Enchanter is not cooperative in your attempts to search the Circle.

I can see how a hardliner would feel the RoA is justified. Now add the big BOOM of the chantry and remove Elthina's veto from the equation.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 juin 2011 - 07:58 .

[dragonflight288]

The first Right of Annulment was the result of a single abomination? I need to read up on that again.

That sounds like two things to me.

1. The Templars overreacted and didn't know how to handle the situation, seeing as it was the first.

or

2. Those templars were even worse than Meredith.

[TJPags]

klarabella wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
DG has said it was legal, yes, but it was legal only by the barest of legal technicalities. Not even most of the Templars thought the RIght was justified.

Which is kind of ridiculous considering the situation in Kirkwall. The DAO codex entry about the first Right of Annulment performed stated it was done for ONE single abomination and a handful of blood mages.

The Kirkwall Circle is overpopulated (I assume), there is unrest, mages are escaping (helped by a mage underground organization) and Kirkwall is teeming with blood mages and demons. At one point templar initiates are being abducted and abused in blood magic rituals. Oh, and the First Enchanter is not cooperative in your attempts to search the Circle.

I can see how a hardliner would feel the RoA is justified. Now add the big BOOM of the chantry and remove Elthina's veto from the equation.

This.

There are some people wondering why the Circle wasn't wiped out much earlier.