68 réponses à ce sujet

[Kabanya101]

lightsnow13 wrote...

 Don't get my wrong. I love the soldier class. It was my first class in both ME1 and ME2 and will probably be for ME3. 

However, in ME2 the soldier is just...lacking. Maybe it is the lack of CC --  "well he has cryo and inc. ammo" I already know that. Inc. ammo can cc for a second or two, but definitely nothing long lasting like pull or cryo blast or throw. Cryo ammo would be far more useful if you didn't need to spend almost all your points to get it. Those points are needed elsewhere like adrenaline rush and your passive. The soldier just can't attack multiple enemies AT ALL. There have been so many times when I just wished I had carnage for my shotgun because there were a ton of enemies grouped together. Just imagine carnage w/ cryo ammo. How awesome would that CC be?

I guess I just want SOMEthing for the soldier class because adrenaline rush is really overrated. It obviously has it's uses but when there are 3-4 enemies swarming your location you have to run back and hope you make it to cover before the timer runs out on your AR. I also think the idea of "ammo" as a power is pathetic. It's almost like a cop-out they didn't want to put much thought into a soldier. His weapons can't save him from everything. His pistol will remain cold and will almost never get used..why give him one in the first place? When you're rushed by 2 or more enemies you're pretty much screwed because of lack of CC. I don't know if anyone else has thought this before - and maybe this is just me venting after a couple of fluke deaths on my soldier a couple of minutes ago - but I just hope they change it up for the soldier in some way. Maybe the new CQC mechanics in ME3 will make it better? I hope so..

Before I say anything, I have to say THANK YOU! You are one of the few people that loves the soldier class, and can look past the bull**** that people say about it.

Adrenaline Rush is a good power, and YES, it is overrated because the people that say its the best power, are the ones that just spam it over and over again. They say its over powered or its the best, but that's because they go into a fight with one mind set, "Hit the Y button."

The developers did cop-out on making the soldier a good class, and just gave it "ammo" powers, when I have to say they are not powers. They were made for two reasons: 1) Fill up the class trees, and 2) Help remove the inventory system. Other than that , they have no use in the game.

And yes, the soldier is a class that relies on weapons, weapon powers, and PASSIVES. In ME1, the soldier was a TANK, with or without electronics as a bonus skill, he could walk into battle, kill 20 enemies, and still walk out with almost half health. ME2, got rid of weapon powers, so the only attack powers the class has are gone, and they took away the passives. The class passive isn't enough. The class that was a damage absorber, becomes frail and fragile compared to the Sentinel. And the weapons like the pistol, shotgun, and sniper have so little ammo that you are forced to stick with the assualt rifle 90% of the time. When the soldier's main power is to switch to ANY weapon and USE it for any situation.

[Malanek]

The soldier is designed for its simplicity. Many people liked it so they didn't have to activate lots of different powers. The real problem with it that makes it overpowered is the interaction between AR and the Mattock. I don't think it should have a whole lot of extra powers in ME. Probably just remove the pre-reqs and improve concussive shot so that the knock down effect ignores barriers and cap the mattocks fireing speed to the same as the viper.

[Kabanya101]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Kabanya101 wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

 Don't get my wrong. I love the soldier class. It was my first class in both ME1 and ME2 and will probably be for ME3. 

However, in ME2 the soldier is just...lacking. Maybe it is the lack of CC --  "well he has cryo and inc. ammo" I already know that. Inc. ammo can cc for a second or two, but definitely nothing long lasting like pull or cryo blast or throw. Cryo ammo would be far more useful if you didn't need to spend almost all your points to get it. Those points are needed elsewhere like adrenaline rush and your passive. The soldier just can't attack multiple enemies AT ALL. There have been so many times when I just wished I had carnage for my shotgun because there were a ton of enemies grouped together. Just imagine carnage w/ cryo ammo. How awesome would that CC be?

I guess I just want SOMEthing for the soldier class because adrenaline rush is really overrated. It obviously has it's uses but when there are 3-4 enemies swarming your location you have to run back and hope you make it to cover before the timer runs out on your AR. I also think the idea of "ammo" as a power is pathetic. It's almost like a cop-out they didn't want to put much thought into a soldier. His weapons can't save him from everything. His pistol will remain cold and will almost never get used..why give him one in the first place? When you're rushed by 2 or more enemies you're pretty much screwed because of lack of CC. I don't know if anyone else has thought this before - and maybe this is just me venting after a couple of fluke deaths on my soldier a couple of minutes ago - but I just hope they change it up for the soldier in some way. Maybe the new CQC mechanics in ME3 will make it better? I hope so..

Before I say anything, I have to say THANK YOU! You are one of the few people that loves the soldier class, and can look past the bull**** that people say about it.

Adrenaline Rush is a good power, and YES, it is overrated because the people that say its the best power, are the ones that just spam it over and over again. They say its over powered or its the best, but that's because they go into a fight with one mind set, "Hit the Y button."

The developers did cop-out on making the soldier a good class, and just gave it "ammo" powers, when I have to say they are not powers. They were made for two reasons: 1) Fill up the class trees, and 2) Help remove the inventory system. Other than that , they have no use in the game.

And yes, the soldier is a class that relies on weapons, weapon powers, and PASSIVES. In ME1, the soldier was a TANK, with or without electronics as a bonus skill, he could walk into battle, kill 20 enemies, and still walk out with almost half health. ME2, got rid of weapon powers, so the only attack powers the class has are gone, and they took away the passives. The class passive isn't enough. The class that was a damage absorber, becomes frail and fragile compared to the Sentinel. And the weapons like the pistol, shotgun, and sniper have so little ammo that you are forced to stick with the assualt rifle 90% of the time. When the soldier's main power is to switch to ANY weapon and USE it for any situation.

Lol I think you're the first person to agree with me on some level. I don't want the soldier to be a one-button class. Yes yes, I know that the soldier is to be a weapons expert but come on..It seems like other classes have some sort of backup if their a melee/defensive class.

Vanguards get their shields instantly recharged when they charge at an enemy (how do people not think that is cheap?) and sentinels have their armor and a random mesh of biotics and tech w/ no real rhyme or reason. Obviously the sentinel is suppose to be the "tanking" class so they should keep their armor (for that matter, why not just have a perm. armor on sentinel since it's their go-to ability?)  Also, their armor RECHARGES their squadmates abilities. How does that make sense? It's useful, for sure, allows for an almsot constant flow of CC and damage abilities from their squadmates.

But what do soldiers get? Basically nothing. AR is overrated and is not as useful as everyone says it is. I've used it half the time to run away and get behind cover. Meanwhile a vanguard could charge forward and backward and whatever way he wants and his shields recharge.

Maybe if a soldier had a passive that added a max ammo increase it would be somewhat better for the soldier to use different weapons more. When I have my sniper I am overly cautious as to how I am going to use it -- same goes for shotgun. I am frequently changing back to my assault rifle in situations that require a shotgun. I can't use a shotgun because I am low on ammo and need to save it for sitautions that REALLY require me to use it. If I am a soldier I want to play like a soldier. 

Ammo powers were cool but after reading up on them..they essentially don't increase much. I think it was bozorgmehr that has talked about the ammo powers and has even had a forum about how they are basically useless. In terms of damage anyway. (At least I'm pretty sure it was Boz..my bad if I'm wrong.)

The soldier doesn't really have a back up, except on like casual. Concussive shot is a decent power if you play on easier difficulties because of the knockback, so like charging krogans it works, but on insanity, I felt I was only using AR to either run back for better cover and farther distance, and for when I used the sniper.

In ME2, the Sentinel was the Tank class, but it completely went against ME1. In ME1, the Sentinel was fragile and was the healer and support character, now, just give it the Claymore, and you feel like your a Krogan yourself. Plus, once tech armor is maxed, you can use other powers while its active, and reduces recharge time of squaddie powers. THAT is overpowered. 
I played the Vanguard, so dumb that Charge recharges shields. Its nice because their main weapon is the shotgun, but the knockback of Charge is plenty of power. By the time the person gets up, you killed them, there's no need for the recharge of the shield.

That's what the soldier needs, is passives. I LOVED the soldier in ME1, even with Fitness maxed, I never used Immunity because he was strong without it. The soldier is raw power, no special tricks or powers, just passives and guns.

The shotgun for the soldier annoyed me the most. When getting the IFF/Legion, I found I was running from the husks and spraying assualt rifle because my shotgun would be empty. Having a passive that would increase ammo held would be a great perk to the class.

Your right about the person who talks about ammo powers, being named Boz. I've stated in that forum and in other that ammo powers were just a filler for the game to get it out on time. Bioware needs to pick up the pace, and not slack on details like that, especially in an RPG.

Modifié par Kabanya101, 04 juin 2011 - 08:24 .

[Kabanya101]

Sorry double post

Modifié par Kabanya101, 04 juin 2011 - 08:23 .

[termokanden]

Kabanya101 wrote...

Before I say anything, I have to say THANK YOU! You are one of the few people that loves the soldier class, and can look past the bull**** that people say about it.

Adrenaline Rush is a good power, and YES, it is overrated because the people that say its the best power, are the ones that just spam it over and over again. They say its over powered or its the best, but that's because they go into a fight with one mind set, "Hit the Y button."

The developers did cop-out on making the soldier a good class, and just gave it "ammo" powers, when I have to say they are not powers. They were made for two reasons: 1) Fill up the class trees, and 2) Help remove the inventory system. Other than that , they have no use in the game.

That's exactly why some of us complained about the class in the first place. It is too easy to just spam it and ignore everything else. If you think it's not that great an ability, I suggest you play the other classes a lot and try again. There's a huge difference in how difficult it is to play for example an adept, particularly in the beginning, and playing a soldier. You're kidding yourself if you think the classes are balanced.

In this thread there are suggestions to make the class tougher, and I have to say I don't see how you can possibly think it needs a boost. You may think it's BS when some people call soldiers overpowered, but I honestly can't believe anyone would find it too weak either.

By the way, I never really thought the class needed to be weaker. I just think it needs some more fun powers so you're not just spamming AR.

And yes, the soldier is a class that relies on weapons, weapon powers, and PASSIVES. In ME1, the soldier was a TANK, with or without electronics as a bonus skill, he could walk into battle, kill 20 enemies, and still walk out with almost half health. ME2, got rid of weapon powers, so the only attack powers the class has are gone, and they took away the passives. The class passive isn't enough. The class that was a damage absorber, becomes frail and fragile compared to the Sentinel.

You make it sound like they ruined the class and soldiers are now weak. They really aren't. I think they're missing fun combat abilities. But their tanking ability in ME1 was absurd and simply needed to change.
 

And the weapons like the pistol, shotgun, and sniper have so little ammo that you are forced to stick with the assualt rifle 90% of the time. When the soldier's main power is to switch to ANY weapon and USE it for any situation.

It is? I thought it was being the best tank and dealing the most damage at the same time. I'm sorry, I'm getting carried away. But this doesn't seem reasonable to me. As an example, I am able to use shotguns exclusively except for when I have to kill someone and I can't get close to them for some reason. Particularly with the ammo upgrade they have loads of ammo.

[termokanden]

I don't think anyone really hates it, I just think soldiers could use more interesting other abilities, that's all.

Modifié par termokanden, 05 juin 2011 - 12:12 .

[termokanden]

That's a matter of opinion, not really something to prove true or false.

But I will admit I am probably talking about more interesting abilities partially because I've played the game too much. Spent too much time on these forums too I guess.

[F00lishG]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

F00lishG wrote...

I agree that the ammo powers is a cop out, and Solder wasn't as much fun as other classes in ME2, but I have no problem with the Solder only able to shoot things. There's Vanguards and Infiltrators if you want a Solder with a bit more bite. Now what would have made Solder worth playing in ME2 would be if he was given temporary status buffs as powers.

1. Keep the Adrenaline Rush.

2. Bring back Immunity.

Adrenaline Rush already makes you take either 70% less damage (Heightened) or 50% less damage to Shields and 75% less damage to Health (Hardened). And that is against automatic weapons- against rockets you can simply dodge them under AR. Adrenaline Rush also allows your Health/Shields to recharge much faster, effectively giving you more HP. Immunity would just be a waste of cooldown given Adrenaline Rush.

3. Give Solder a buff that increases storm speed distance, lowers fatigue,

Adrenaline Rush + Combat Mastery is more than enough already. Increased storm speed leads to increased storm distance, and Adrenaline Rush leads to faster fatigue recovery.

and triples the speed of reloading weapons.

This I agree with. It's painful to waste a whole Adrenaline Rush just firing one shot from a Claymore/Widow. But it's understandable for balance reasons- if a Soldier can fire more than one shots from those weapons under one AR, and still enjoy a +140% damage boost, there would be no point playing an Infiltrator/Vanguard.

4. Give a buff that prevents stagger and ups Melee strength.

Preventing stagger would instantly IMBA the game and makes Husks useless. With Adrenalien Rush/increased storm speed, Soldier should never be staggered unless they allow themselves to anyway. AR also ups melee damage to insane amounts (you can one-hit remove a Husk's Armor under AR).

5. Give a buff that increases accuracy and weapon stability by a large margin

Again, Adrenaline Rush. Also, Soldiers are not Infiltrators.

6. Place the Ammo Powers and Concussive Shots to the side, and allow Solder to carry the SMG.

This I agree. I love SMGs.

In conclusion, I believe Adrenaline Rush is a very well-thought of power that is a combination of ME1's Overkill + Barrage + Assassination + Immunity. It is the most powerful move in the game (with the exception of Tech Armor, which is boringly OP, and possibly Charge, which would be better if it never bugs out) and what makes Soldier unique. Don't get why people hate it at all.

You just explained why people aren't too fond of AR. It's the ultimate catch all. Why create 5 buffs to make a varied Solder who can outthink situations with the right gun and buff while you can have one that does all that work? That doesn't sound appealing to play multiple times compared to other classes. Plus with it only being up for a few seconds, the only way AR is really effective to beat out other buffs would be to hot key it every second while it's cooling down. Once again that doesn't sound appealing to play with multiple times.

Modifié par F00lishG, 05 juin 2011 - 01:24 .

[CajNatalie]

Started my Hardcore Soldier run...

It's still relatively bland. I'm extremely powerful, but play is... as I said... relatively bland.
You just run around shooting things while shifting in and out of slow motion.
Shooting things is fun... but it doesn't have the flavor of a class with real powers.

But ultimately, the Soldier DOES NOT need to get any stronger. I can really see the multi-colored health bar issue power-class lovers complain about for the soldier. All I do is check my ammo is either the red one or the blue one for the mission and after that I barely care about protections...
I make my squaddies use powers just because... they can... I'm trying to squeeze what strategy I can out of my squad powers, but they just don't feel important enough to me when I'm gunning everything down like Rambo on steroids...
Wait... that's practically what a Soldier + maxed out Adrenaline Rush is.

[Alamar2078]

IMHO the Soldier already has some of the best crowd control in the game. AR + Mattock means that any crowd is dead fast from range with decent protection.

In Arrival it's a little harder but still not too bad as long as you go on an ammo run sometimes.

Yeah I know that's not what the original post / poster intended but it's still true. Without starting from scratch on the Soldier [maybe not a bad idea mind you] there really is no need for CC abilities to rival an Engineer or Adept.

[Alamar2078]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I think what I'm wanting is just a sense of safety. When there is a husk rush - what can a soldier do? Not much. The soldier is the WORST class against a rush.

I disagree that a Soldier is so terrible against a Husk Rush.  WIth the possible exception of a Sentinel I can't think of a class that I have an easier time fighting off pure Husk Rushes [Like in the final level of the dead Reaper].  BTW:  I pretty much only play on Insanity, I generally play NG+, and I'm nowhere near elite and the Soldier is still easy IMHO.

As for what the Soldier does during a Husk rush is that he pwns the Husks then looks around to see if there is a dangerous enemy around.

With AR + Inferno Ammo + Mattock or Revvy + Medigel [the "oops" skill] you should be able to tear through pretty much any level including Husk heavy levels or even the final level in the dead reaper.  Grunt & Zaaed [or whoever] can usually do a decent job holding their ground while Shep just knocks down husks as fast as they can respawn.  If you do happen to get surrounded [hey I'm not elite so it happens] you only need a fraction of a second so a CB by any "soldier" / throw field / anything that will stagger husks is enough time to get away and slap down the pack that was hounding you.

With an Engineer you need much better coordination with your teammates.  Sure you can burn armor off  a group quick but you need a teammate to finish the group if you want it done quickly.  An Adept often has the CC you want vs. husks but even then it's still a good idea to have a good "team" to be effective.   Same applies even moreso with an Infiltrator.   All the Soldier needs is for his team to mostly hold their side of the battle while he takes care of everything else.  Power management headaches are minimal / builds don't need to be complicated / etc.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 05 juin 2011 - 03:03 .

[termokanden]

It's not true that soldiers do not have tools against husk rushes. They have TONS of ammo due to having many weapons. Adrenaline Rush can help you move around. Squad Cryo Ammo is also extremely good against them if you have that.

But mainly the deal with husk rushes is just to move correctly. Keep moving while shooting and don't get cornered, and there shouldn't be a problem. You mention ammo issues too, but where there's a husk rush there's normally loads of ammo nearby that even respawns. In the mine you talk about for example there are two boxes with Power Cells. There's a table upstairs too with respawning thermal clips.

[Kabanya101]

termokanden wrote...

It's not true that soldiers do not have tools against husk rushes. They have TONS of ammo due to having many weapons. Adrenaline Rush can help you move around. Squad Cryo Ammo is also extremely good against them if you have that.

But mainly the deal with husk rushes is just to move correctly. Keep moving while shooting and don't get cornered, and there shouldn't be a problem. You mention ammo issues too, but where there's a husk rush there's normally loads of ammo nearby that even respawns. In the mine you talk about for example there are two boxes with Power Cells. There's a table upstairs too with respawning thermal clips.

Not wanting to get off topic, but that's what I hate about some shooter games, there's always random clips lying around, and RESPAWN. Not even close to being real, that's why I preffered ME1 ammo system, more realistic to the game's environment.

The only way to deal with a husk rush as a soldier is to simply use the flamethrower. That's the only gun that gives the soldier an edge against them, but sadly all classes can use that gun. Even with a maxed out Concussive Shot, it simply doesn't deal enough damage, and with such a long recharge time makes it a pain to use. In these situations as a soldier, I use AR to run back, ready the flamethrower, and then barbeque.

I have only used Cryo ammo once as a soldier, and I find it rather useless, especially against husks. It only freezes for a couple seconds, when you could max out Inferno ammo for ONE. Not only does is deal more damage, it sets people on fire, and has a small blast radius, great for husks grouped together. Now, combine that with say the Revenant (personally my favorite assualt rifle), and you have 80 rounds ****ing **** up, and then with AR for damage boost. Its like somebody called the Blitzkrieg.

My class build maxes, Frag Grenade, AR, class passive, Inferno ammo, Concussive shot, and half of disrupter. (Yes, I used Dominae to get two extra points, so sue me.) It has the powers of a REAL soldier, and each one has its uses. CS for easier playthroughs (other than that, its utterly useless, even maxed out. useful against krogans with no protection though cause of the knockback), Frag for multiple enemies, Inferno ammo maxed for single (that's a must), half disrupter for geth/robots (you only face a few, there's no need to be maxed), passive, and AR for sniping and running and to do the Matrix. You can make a better soldier build, but I wanted to make it as real as possible being having grenades, grenade launchers, ect.

Trust me, I have played all classes in both games, I know what classes got nerfed, underpowered, overpowered, ect. The Adept is great on easier playthroughs, but on Insanity, it becomes useless because of the flawed protection system. All biotics are useless on harder playthroughs, stick with combat or tech, unless you want the extra challenge. Engineer is a breeze on insanity, overload, incinerate, and combat drone, need I say more.

Modifié par Kabanya101, 05 juin 2011 - 11:16 .

[termokanden]

You do realize that husks die after being frozen?

You say the only way to deal with husks is with a flamethrower. Then you go on to mention how great the Revenant is when combined with Inferno Ammo. You're right, it is, and no other class can use it.

[Kabanya101]

lightsnow13 wrote...

That's just it though! From range. Not up close. The shotgun can only do so much up close.

I did the side mission where you fight husks on a planet and destroy the machine deep in the mine. It was probably hardest w/ my soldier. My adept could easily take them all down with a singularity - shoot their armor off or inc. w/ mordin - then I just pull field whenever needed.
Yeah, he can totally take on husks. From a distance. As long as he is backing up and firing he can take off their armor and shoot the waist. But he has no ability to get out of a husk rush when they're all melee-ing the **** out of him. I don't want to play a soldier who has to stand back. This has been my personal experience playing the soldier (and yes I do play on insanity as well.) I've had a considerably harder time playing insanity as a soldier than with an adept - or any other class for that matter.
I usually pull out my shotty when theres a husk rush and start blasting away. Only to run out of bullets and hope there won't be any more husks.

The only way to do that mission is to bring Grunt and Mordin, and have a flamethrower ready, that's the only way you can get up close to them as a soldier. That's what I don't like about the soldier in this game, no more power. I feel like I'm always running, when I should stand and fight. On insanity, I'm spending more time using AR to run because of slowing time and increase to defense.

I never use my heavy weapons ammo, because the gun isn't needed. And I don't like the way it looks on the back, so I carry the small flamethrower and it usually has like a 1000 ammo or so. Perfect for husks, takes out armor, health, and even cuts them in half.

Shotgun is as useless as CS for the soldier, unless you have the upgrade to increase ammo, and still that's not enough. I stick with the Revenant, 80 round clip, tons of ammo, and with inferno ammo, simply beast. Others say the Mattock is better, I just don't like single fire and the small clip it has. Its like 20 rounds the clip, I like fully automatic swiss cheese kinds of guns.

[CajNatalie]

The class that's supposed to stand fight and stay in the thick of it is the Vanguard. Not the Soldier.
You're misfiring assumptions about the Soldier... they can't be great at everything, people already complain enough as it is about them being overpowered compared to other classes.

The soldier is the gun-focused class that can max any major ammo power out and get over a +100% damage bonus to attacks.
Then there's the HP, which with all upgrades will hit 500, and with Hardened Adrenaline Rush becomes effectively 1000HP for the duration.

Don't even get me started on what you said about the Adept.
They are by no means useless. The protection system is flawed as hell, but here's something... an Adept is more useful on Insanity than they are on Hardcore.
On Insanity, enemies have a lot of HP... while protections are still easy enough to drop.
An Adept can easily kill almost any enemy once they're de-shielded or de-armored. Nerfed though they may be... flawed the system definitely is... but there are ways to keep biotics great.

Anyway, someone earlier just said that Cryo Ammo = dead husk.
Alternatively, since Biotics = dead husk, too, bring an accurate Assault Rifle with Inferno Ammo... strip armor from multiple husks quickly and precisely, then have a biotic squadmate knock them off their feet with a 'Field' attack.
Also, Jack with Improved Shockwave is a good way to hit them all even if there's distance between them as they run at you, and it'll also make the ones behind stop running for a moment so you can focus on taking their armor down, too.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 05 juin 2011 - 01:07 .

[CajNatalie]

What would have worked better is to let them keep their Heavy Armor so that if they got rushed they wouldn't just die. They survived perfectly fine just gunning one at a time in Mass Effect 1 because they were the bullet/damage sponge class.

I can't agree more that squadmates are horribly underpowered in Insanity in longevity.
I'm curious to see how my soldier does solo-ing it because of their ineptness (currently on Hardcore run with Soldier right now). I'll find a way to deal with it and adapt... I always do. When I do, maybe I'll have some better advice instead of going by what I learned from my Vanguard run. Sorry if it wasn't helpful.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 05 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[termokanden]

Again I have to ask: Why should the soldier be a superior damage dealer with the widest selection of weapons and at the same time not have to take cover?

If you improve the survivability of soldiers THAT much, you have to take something away. I hope you see that.

I also think you shouldn't worry about having to use cover. Real soldiers do that as well. "Stand and fight" sounds great, but Shepard isn't Superman. Just your average badass cyborg.