68 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

Well, in ME3, all classes are able to carry all weapons, so the only advantage the Soldier has on that field is that it can carry more weapons than the other classes.

[termokanden]

They don't really have trouble with front-line fighting. At least I never did with my soldiers. Don't really remember having to retreat much either. On the other hand, I remember ripping enemies apart a bit too fast compared to what my other characters could do.

I'd say sentinels probably have too much survivability because of how Assault Armor works. Vanguards don't always need to take cover, but that's the point of their whole risk/reward mechanic. And when Charge fails (and that's not at all as rare as it should be), you're finished.

Soldiers are just all-round great. The best ammo power in the game, Adrenaline Rush, widest selection of weapons. The only thing they don't have is a good "spell". But you can get one as a bonus power.

Boost their survivability and they will be very overpowered.

[Someone With Mass]

The only other class that has a easier time to survive in the open is in my opinion the Sentinel.

And maybe Vanguard, but that's pretty much what the class is designed for.

[termokanden]

We've been discussing the whole ammo situation quite a bit recently. That part I can certainly agree with.

[Alamar2078]

lightsnow13 wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

IMHO the Soldier already has some of the best crowd control in the game. AR + Mattock means that any crowd is dead fast from range with decent protection.

In Arrival it's a little harder but still not too bad as long as you go on an ammo run sometimes.

Yeah I know that's not what the original post / poster intended but it's still true. Without starting from scratch on the Soldier [maybe not a bad idea mind you] there really is no need for CC abilities to rival an Engineer or Adept.

That's just it though! From range. Not up close. The shotgun can only do so much up close.

I did the side mission where you fight husks on a planet and destroy the machine deep in the mine. It was probably hardest w/ my soldier. My adept could easily take them all down with a singularity - shoot their armor off or inc. w/ mordin - then I just pull field whenever needed.
Yeah, he can totally take on husks. From a distance. As long as he is backing up and firing he can take off their armor and shoot the waist. But he has no ability to get out of a husk rush when they're all melee-ing the **** out of him. I don't want to play a soldier who has to stand back. This has been my personal experience playing the soldier (and yes I do play on insanity as well.) I've had a considerably harder time playing insanity as a soldier than with an adept - or any other class for that matter.
I usually pull out my shotty when theres a husk rush and start blasting away. Only to run out of bullets and hope there won't be any more husks.

Actually I normally don't bother with a Shotgun against husks with the magic-respawning-clips of doom everywhere.  A Mattock or Revvy up close [with AR + Ammo Powers etc.] is more than enough to obliterate any tight pack of husks in no time flat.  They die so fast that you don't really have time to cast as "spell".  Just use the small time between ARs to watch position, reload, save squadmates if needed, check squad powers, etc.

Really the Husks themselves shouldn't be a big problem.  The only thing that trips me up is making sure to dodge Harby, Scions, etc. as needed. 

[Alamar2078]

lightsnow13 wrote...

I think its just frustrating they didn't really give them a power. If they're going to have ammo as a "power" at least don't give it a cooldown. You're in the heat of battle and sometimes you might want to change ammo powers but...forget it. That time would probably be best popping AR.

I feel like ammo powers are such a cop-out. They should have given the soldier a little bit more thought instead of a "pop AR over and over again" kinda class.

Against big targets [YMIR or similar] my Soldiers will change ammo types.  I won't argue that this is "best" from an efficiency standpoint but I like the flavor it imparts by doing so.  Plus it takes almost no time to change ammo so unless you're an Elite player you won't be harming your kill speed much.

******************************************************

While I don't particularly like Ammo powers in terms of them being "powers" what else are you going to give a Solider??  In ME2 terms there's not much left that I can easily think of that don't have downsides ....

If you gave a Soldier some type of "armor power" but you'd be taking away some of the unique feel of the Sentinel ....

Grenade "skills" fall into the same class as ammo powers for me so that's not an improvement ...

Giving a Soldier a way to build a temporary fortification / cover may be nice but once again it doesn't sound like a "skill" to me.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Yea, it's a waste to use shotguns on husks. Their firepower is wasted, and you'll trip yourself up from their low RoF imo. All that is needed is to quickly strip them of their armor, and for that Pistols are usually enough. For bigger hordes, Mattock/Revvy or even Tempest/Locust are ideal, mostly b/c of which RoF, which synergizes the best with Cyro Ammo or AoE CC.

[Kronner]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^Yea, it's a waste to use shotguns on husks. Their firepower is wasted, and you'll trip yourself up from their low RoF imo. All that is needed is to quickly strip them of their armor, and for that Pistols are usually enough. For bigger hordes, Mattock/Revvy or even Tempest/Locust are ideal, mostly b/c of which RoF, which synergizes the best with Cyro Ammo or AoE CC.

I beg to differ. OSOKing husks is priceless.

[Alamar2078]

Kronner wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^Yea, it's a waste to use shotguns on husks. Their firepower is wasted, and you'll trip yourself up from their low RoF imo. All that is needed is to quickly strip them of their armor, and for that Pistols are usually enough. For bigger hordes, Mattock/Revvy or even Tempest/Locust are ideal, mostly b/c of which RoF, which synergizes the best with Cyro Ammo or AoE CC.

I beg to differ. OSOKing husks is priceless.

Hmmm OSOK does have a certain level of smexyness to it    I doubt my soldiers [meaning me] are good enough to pull that off reliably without getting swarmed.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^That's only the Claymore/Evi, right? I haven't played Vanguard in forever... And the Scimitar/GPS on my other guys are no fun on Husks.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 06 juin 2011 - 09:35 .

[kstarler]

I'm in the process of compiling a Soldier video doing the Abandoned Mine, since some folks had mentioned that particular mission as being difficult for a Soldier. I did it with the Avenger (3/5 upgrades, w/ Penetration and Accuracy upgraded) in the default N7 armor with Mordin and Miranda. I think it's a reasonable build for a NG+. I would also add that, below level 30, this would have been significantly less difficult (this was done before the DCS mission, so around level 20 for a regular game).

It's not the prettiest work with a Soldier, as one might expect when using the Avenger and default armor with no DLC (I did one run with Kasumi before realizing that she is DLC, but MAN does her flash grenade come in handy; it cut my run time by more than half). Still, it's video evidence that, even if you're stuck with the Avenger (and only an average gamer like me), it can be done if played properly and with the right squad. I imagine that with the Revvy or Mattock, and/or using Inferno Ammo on Shepard (with Squad Cryo) this would have been a cake walk, even on Insanity.

Also, I didn't have Samara yet at this point in the game (or her loyalty power), but her Area Reave would have been very handy to compliment Mordin's Incineration Blast. Area Reave doesn't strip all the armor from a cluster of husks (it leaves an invisible sliver), but it's good enough for a Soldier to work with when using Cryo Ammo. I'll update with a youtube link once it's uploaded.

EDIT: Here is the link to my video: www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par kstarler, 07 juin 2011 - 07:09 .

[Alamar2078]

IIRC the mine is the spot that I have the most trouble with [in terms of Husks] as a soldier. If you can "easily" get through with that build with Instanity NG+ you're better than me.

I want Kestrel Armor + Mattock or Revvy + other weapons + Grunt with his Claymore with Fortification [tank] ... While I normally get through without too many problems I couldn't imagine how I would do it without all the Uber Stuff

Modifié par Alamar2078, 07 juin 2011 - 05:13 .

[kstarler]

Alamar2078 wrote...

IIRC the mine is the spot that I have the most trouble with [in terms of Husks] as a soldier. If you can "easily" get through with that build with Instanity NG+ you're better than me.

I want Kestrel Armor + Mattock or Revvy + other weapons + Grunt with his Claymore with Fortification [tank] ... While I normally get through without too many problems I couldn't imagine how I would do it without all the Uber Stuff

The problem with Grunt on that mission is he has nothing that is really good against husks. Incendiary ammo is useful for stripping their armor, but aside from that, unless you have squad cryo and he's using an assault rifle, he's going to be less useful than Mordin with Incineration Blast, Samara with Area Reave, Jack/Jacob with Area Pull, etc.

I'm starting to think that a some of the people expressing difficulty with the Soldier class against groups are not using their squad to the fullest effect. The Soldier is a power house against many different enemies, but a well coordinated squad is always extremely helpful to any class.

[Alamar2078]

I may be playing wrong but I value Grunt for being able to give him a Claymore .. tell him to protect a spot and expect him "not to die" before I can turn around to save his hide. I also find Grunt's Concussive Blast to be helpful if a Husk or two sneaks up on me.

As for powers I agree that other characters with Pull/Throw Fields, Area versions of Incineration, etc. are SUPER useful but I'm often killing fast enough anyway. I want someone that will help keep me alive if I get in a jam. Grunt serves his purpose by simply taking enough fire and not dying. Also I don't have to babysit power usage and other things that would get in the way of Shep using AR to kill what he needs to kill.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 07 juin 2011 - 08:48 .

[jamesp81]

lightsnow13 wrote...

 Don't get my wrong. I love the soldier class. It was my first class in both ME1 and ME2 and will probably be for ME3. 

However, in ME2 the soldier is just...lacking. Maybe it is the lack of CC --  "well he has cryo and inc. ammo" I already know that. Inc. ammo can cc for a second or two, but definitely nothing long lasting like pull or cryo blast or throw. Cryo ammo would be far more useful if you didn't need to spend almost all your points to get it. Those points are needed elsewhere like adrenaline rush and your passive. The soldier just can't attack multiple enemies AT ALL. There have been so many times when I just wished I had carnage for my shotgun because there were a ton of enemies grouped together. Just imagine carnage w/ cryo ammo. How awesome would that CC be?

I guess I just want SOMEthing for the soldier class because adrenaline rush is really overrated. It obviously has it's uses but when there are 3-4 enemies swarming your location you have to run back and hope you make it to cover before the timer runs out on your AR. I also think the idea of "ammo" as a power is pathetic. It's almost like a cop-out they didn't want to put much thought into a soldier. His weapons can't save him from everything. His pistol will remain cold and will almost never get used..why give him one in the first place? When you're rushed by 2 or more enemies you're pretty much screwed because of lack of CC. I don't know if anyone else has thought this before - and maybe this is just me venting after a couple of fluke deaths on my soldier a couple of minutes ago - but I just hope they change it up for the soldier in some way. Maybe the new CQC mechanics in ME3 will make it better? I hope so..

I guess I can agree with some of this.

There are definitely some issues, and they revolve around Adrenaline Rush.  AR is decent with automatic weapons like the Revenant, but it's truly devastating if used with one shot, high powered weapons (sniper rifles, claymore, eviscerator, GPS) or weapons with a cap on its rate of fire (Mattock).

When I play a Revenant soldier, I deck out concussive shot even though it's not as good of a use of a cooldown as adrenaline rush.  I don't care, I just like to use it.  I take a defensive power (usually geth shield boost) for my bonus power for those situations where I don't think adrenaline rush will get me out of trouble.  And often AR is not the effective panic button it's portrayed to be.

Now, with a Widow soldier, I spam AR and remove heads, but a Widow soldier is inherently a different beast than a Revenant soldier.

I think soldiers were never about CC and more about raw DPS.  I always rely on squad powers for CC when I play soldier.

[kstarler]

Alamar2078 wrote...

I may be playing wrong but I value Grunt for being able to give him a Claymore .. tell him to protect a spot and expect him "not to die" before I can turn around to save his hide. I also find Grunt's Concussive Blast to be helpful if a Husk or two sneaks up on me.

As for powers I agree that other characters with Pull/Throw Fields, Area versions of Incineration, etc. are SUPER useful but I'm often killing fast enough anyway. I want someone that will help keep me alive if I get in a jam. Grunt serves his purpose by simply taking enough fire and not dying. Also I don't have to babysit power usage and other things that would get in the way of Shep using AR to kill what he needs to kill.

Just to clarify, I also like to bring along sub-optimal squad mates all the time, for dialogue as well as other reasons. I have no qualms with how anyone else wants to play the game. What irritates me (and it is something that others have done, not you) is when people play sub-optimally and then complain that the game is too difficult, or the class is nerfed/worthless, etc.

The point of the video is to show that, even if a person is playing the Soldier in a sub-optimal way, they have the tools necessary to take on waves of husks, provided there is some prior planning (to prevent ******-poor performance). I don't really care if people think the Soldier is overpowered, underpowered, or whether they think the class is great or awful. Personally, I like the class for what it is in ME2, just as I did in ME1. Arguing opinion, especially on the internet, is as futile as arguing what color the sky is (it's orange, by the way, and if you say otherwise, you're WRONG! ).