276 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow Raziel]

jollyorigins wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

what if the Tevinters used blood magic and the red lyrium instead of the blue lyrium and that caused the darkspawn?

That's what I'm saying. Is the red lyrium created by normal lyrium + lots of blood magic? (remember the magisters slaughtered hundreds of their elves to achieve whatever they did.) So much about blood magic is unknown aside from being able to control others because the chantry forbids it. Perhaps the life giving and strange powers of lyrium aided by the blood of living things is what caused the rock to come alive in Primeval Thaig, and creating the rock wraiths.

...I love making all these theories up.

An interesting theory non the less... time will tell. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

You know, the Codex entry on the Primeaval Thaig mentions that the ruins in that part of the Deep Roads are untouched by darkspawn. That's partly what makes them so noteworthy. It wouldn't seem to make much sense if that was the place where the darkspawn originated.

[TEWR]

it could be that whatever made the Darkspawn took a while to make them complete Darkspawn. maybe they left the Primeval Thaig's area and eventually became Darkspawn?

[Rifneno]

jollyorigins wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

what if the Tevinters used blood magic and the red lyrium instead of the blue lyrium and that caused the darkspawn?

That's what I'm saying. Is the red lyrium created by normal lyrium + lots of blood magic? (remember the magisters slaughtered hundreds of their elves to achieve whatever they did.) So much about blood magic is unknown aside from being able to control others because the chantry forbids it. Perhaps the life giving and strange powers of lyrium aided by the blood of living things is what caused the rock to come alive in Primeval Thaig, and creating the rock wraiths.

...I love making all these theories up.

Hmm.  I like it, except for two kinks.  One, I'm pretty sure Tevinter's experiments in Kirkwall came long after whatever happened in the Primeval Thaig.  Second, there's still the unexplained and chilling message scrawled on that thaig wall:

We who are forgotten, remember, 
We clawed at the rock until our fingers bled,
We cried out for justice, but were unheard, 
Our children wept in hunger, 
And so we feasted upon the gods. 
Here we wait, in aeons of silence. 
We few, we profane.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

You know, the Codex entry on the Primeaval Thaig mentions that the ruins in that part of the Deep Roads are untouched by darkspawn. That's partly what makes them so noteworthy. It wouldn't seem to make much sense if that was the place where the darkspawn originated.

That's true, but really... what does explain that?

[ObserverStatus]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

I don't think mages are as are constantly at risk of being possessed.
[excluding Kirkwall where the veil is thin.}
I don't think magister's really started the blight.
I believe Andraste was a mage and they covered it up.
discuss.

*points finger* YOU lie!

[TEWR]

"we feasted upon the gods"?


That's it, Primeval Thaig dwarves worshipped lyrium and ended up eating it. Lyrium is f*cking alive.....

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 05 juin 2011 - 02:33 .

[Sajuro]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

You know, the Codex entry on the Primeaval Thaig mentions that the ruins in that part of the Deep Roads are untouched by darkspawn. That's partly what makes them so noteworthy. It wouldn't seem to make much sense if that was the place where the darkspawn originated.

Red Lyrium sings the song that says "gtfo" to darkspawn?

[Rifneno]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

"we feasted upon the gods"?


That's it, Primeval Thaig dwarves worshipped lyrium and ended up eating it. Lyrium is f*cking alive.....

Exactly what I've been thinking.  If you look closely at the lyrium down there, while some of it is clearly used by the dwarves (or elves or whatever lived there) in making parts of the pillars and such, other parts look like plant roots growing around.  The most telling is parts where you'll see some of the ancient tunnel walls have crumbled, and a vein of lyrium has grown in through the hole and around some of the wall like a kind of ivy.  For it to be coming through a crumbling hole in the wall means that the lyrium was not there when the place was already built and started crumbling.  It's growing, it has to be.  Now the real question is... what the hell does this mean?

[dragonflight288]

You'll need smarter people than me to figure that out. I don't claim to be an expert on lyrium, mining it, and why if affects people the way it does.

[HSHAW]

About Templar abilities, perhaps Templars are using their weaker connection to the Fade to use abilities that counter magic (we already know that you can use magic to counter other mages thanks to mana clash) since it has been repeatedly said that strong will and focus allow one to resist magic (see the text explaining most magic resistance abilities.)

Modifié par HSHAW, 05 juin 2011 - 05:32 .

[HSHAW]

Rifneno wrote...  It's growing, it has to be.

Calling it now, Lyrium is the blood of something (either the Stone mentioned by the Nexus golem, the Elven Gods or The two remaining old gods).

[Iakus]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

"we feasted upon the gods"?


That's it, Primeval Thaig dwarves worshipped lyrium and ended up eating it. Lyrium is f*cking alive.....

What's really odd is..dwarves have Paragons, and the Stone.  When did they ever have gods?

[GavrielKay]

Rifneno wrote...
For it to be coming through a crumbling hole in the wall means that the lyrium was not there when the place was already built and started crumbling.  It's growing, it has to be.  Now the real question is... what the hell does this mean?

My fear is that it means the graphics designers thought it looked especially cool.  My hope is that there is a point to it and we'll find out some day.  There is reason to believe that lyrium is more special than just fueling magic anyway.

Having it be a form of living energy or something akin to that would be cool because it could be analogous to blood.

[MichaelFinnegan]

iakus wrote...

What's really odd is..dwarves have Paragons, and the Stone.  When did they ever have gods?

That is going only by what the spaperate recorded in their memories. I have a strong suspicion that long ago the potent variety of lyrium in the Primeval Thaig was their god, if one goes by the assumption that dwarves were naturally disconnected from the Fade from the start. It wouldn't be all that odd for some of them to have worshipped something that perhaps gave them special magical powers.

Now, whether the rest of dwarven society believed that to be some form of evil, I don't know. Indeed, I have no clue why that Thaig was sealed off. I'm especially nonplussed by this: "We cried out for justice, but were unheard." What sort of injustice was done to them?

[Rifneno]

iakus wrote...

What's really odd is..dwarves have Paragons, and the Stone.  When did they ever have gods?

We know very little about dwarven culture. And what we do know is all from a city of dwarves that think tradition is more important than anything else and that their current stagnated culture is right and everyone else is a complete jackass. We also know from the dwarven origin that their "perfect" memories are pretty much the opposite of perfect. They're happy to simply rewrite history so some "dishonors" can be undone or forgotten people punished. To say Orzammar's word on dwarven history should be taken with a grain of salt is a massive understatement.

GavrielKay wrote...

My fear is that it means the graphics designers thought it looked especially cool. My hope is that there is a point to it and we'll find out some day. There is reason to believe that lyrium is more special than just fueling magic anyway.

Having it be a form of living energy or something akin to that would be cool because it could be analogous to blood.

Oh lord. I fear you may be right on that graphic designer thing. I hadn't even considered that possibility.

... Huh. I just remembered something else. Bartrand was cutting off the servant's flesh and feeding it back to them, along with lyrium, so they could "hear the song." Who else was fed flesh of their kin? "Ninth day, she grins and devours her kin." Hespith's rhyme about Laryn's transformation into a broodmother. And what does the Mother, the sentient broodmother of Awakening, keep ranting about? How she can't hear "the song" anymore since the Architect made her sentient. Bartrand is doing something to the servants that's part of becoming a broodmother, so they can experience something that broodmothers experience. I don't know how they're connected, but I'm definitely with the crowd that thinks that Thaig is connected to the darkspawn and likely their origin. Lastly, "the song" is generally believed to be the call of the old gods to the darkspawn to come "free" them. We also hear that lyrium sings. Again, I don't know how they're connected but...

[Fast Jimmy]

The Maker makes the Old Gods.

The Maker makes Man.

The Maker banishes the Old Gods.

Man takes the Golden City, causing Maker to leave and Old Gods to become Archdemons.

Man kills Archdemons.

Archdemons eat Man... Elves inherit the earth.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 05 juin 2011 - 12:46 .

[dragonflight288]

Maker makes spirits,

Maker isn't happy with spirits so creates man and abandons spirits

Spirits become jealous and turn into demons

Maker is upset by man and abandons them once

Maker gets a crush on a girl

Maker abandons humans again after her death

That's essentially the chant of light in a nutshell. The dwarves honor the stone, venerate the ancestors, and have no gods. The dalish have many gods, but refuse the chantry. The Qunari have the Qun, and refuse free will. And they all think they're right and everyone else is wrong, to the point of aggression and stupidity.

[Sidney]

The notion that mages aren't "at risk" is silly based on what we've seen in 2+ games set in the era. Mages are corruptable, mages get possessed- a lot. Frankly, given the level of stupid/evil/weakness out of mages the amazing thing about the chantry isn't that they lock them in a circle but that they don't just kill them all on sight or turn them tranquil as soon as they arrive at the circle.

[dragonflight288]

Oh? So you would deny 6 and 7 year olds the right to live?

[DragonRacer]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The Maker makes the Old Gods.

The Maker makes Man.

The Maker banishes the Old Gods.

Man takes the Golden City, causing Maker to leave and Old Gods to become Archdemons.

Man kills Archdemons.

Archdemons eat Man... Elves inherit the earth.

Yes, we could certainly use Dr. Ian Malcolm's brilliance in solving this mystery.

Wonder if the Chaos Theory factors into this anyhow... a high dragon flaps her wings in the Frostback Mountains and there's rain in Gwaren? lol

[HSHAW]

Sidney wrote...

The notion that mages aren't "at risk" is silly based on what we've seen in 2+ games set in the era. Mages are corruptable, mages get possessed- a lot. Frankly, given the level of stupid/evil/weakness out of mages the amazing thing about the chantry isn't that they lock them in a circle but that they don't just kill them all on sight or turn them tranquil as soon as they arrive at the circle.

Go read the enigma of Kirkwall codex entries, they explain why there are so many possessed mages in Kirkwall.

[Silfren]

Sidney wrote...

The notion that mages aren't "at risk" is silly based on what we've seen in 2+ games set in the era. Mages are corruptable, mages get possessed- a lot. Frankly, given the level of stupid/evil/weakness out of mages the amazing thing about the chantry isn't that they lock them in a circle but that they don't just kill them all on sight or turn them tranquil as soon as they arrive at the circle.

Funny, I seem to recall the statement being that mages weren't constantly at risk, implying that the risk is not as high and ever-present as the Chantry claims, which is NOT the same thing as saying "not at risk at all" as you here suggest.

[GavrielKay]

Silfren wrote...

Sidney wrote...

The notion that mages aren't "at risk" is silly based on what we've seen in 2+ games set in the era. Mages are corruptable, mages get possessed- a lot. Frankly, given the level of stupid/evil/weakness out of mages the amazing thing about the chantry isn't that they lock them in a circle but that they don't just kill them all on sight or turn them tranquil as soon as they arrive at the circle.

Funny, I seem to recall the statement being that mages weren't constantly at risk, implying that the risk is not as high and ever-present as the Chantry claims, which is NOT the same thing as saying "not at risk at all" as you here suggest.

If the devs wanted to really make anyone feel like mages were walking time bombs, then a Hawke mage (or Anders or Merrill or Bethany) should have had a quest where we are randomly dreaming and a demon tries to possess us.  The gamplay on this is completely unsupportive of the lore they are trying to establish.

I don't buy that the behavior of a group of mages who are tortured and raped in a place where we are informed the veil is nearly non-existant counts at all as proof that mages are under constant attack by demons. 

From where I sit, the mages appear to be under constant attack by the Templars.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So because we have a maximum of two )warden and champion) mages who doesn't show any sign of demons tempting them, all other mages are free of such temptations aswell? You don't see how flawed that logic is?
Especially in a circle as Kirkwall's with as strict, and in some cases depraved, Templars, would the mages be under constant pressure from demons. And they are, given the numbers of abominations and blood mages in Kirkwall far excedes anywhere else in the world.

[GavrielKay]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
So because we have a maximum of two )warden and champion) mages who doesn't show any sign of demons tempting them, all other mages are free of such temptations aswell? You don't see how flawed that logic is?
Especially in a circle as Kirkwall's with as strict, and in some cases depraved, Templars, would the mages be under constant pressure from demons. And they are, given the numbers of abominations and blood mages in Kirkwall far excedes anywhere else in the world.

Logic?  The claim that the mages we see turn to blood magic or demons when pushed to extremes represent all the hundreds of mages in the circle isn't any more logical than any other thought here.

The point I was trying to make has nothing to do with whether a mage under extreme duress will cave in and seek the help of a demon as a last resort.

I was attempting to make the point that the Chantry apparently wants Hawke (and its followers in general) to believe that every mage everywhere is a constant threat even when well trained and well intentioned because demons are always on the prowl looking for a distracted or dreaming mage to take over.  This has nothing to do with what a mage will do in the heat of battle or whether they'll fight back with blood magic rather than take an Annulment on their knees.

How can the devs want us to believe that mages are constantly cajoled by demons in their dreams and distracted moments when we can play 7 years of Hawke's life in the company of other mages and never have it happen to us?  Even a single quest from Hawke (or Merrill or Bethany if Hawke isn't a mage) where the mage is approached in their dreams and a demon attempts to trick them could advance that plot theme better than having Meredith and the Chantry just preach it.

They were doing better with Connor in DAO - though he was untrained - and Feynriel - but then he's explained away as a rarity anyway.