276 réponses à ce sujet

[ForgeDark]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

So because we have a maximum of two )warden and champion) mages who doesn't show any sign of demons tempting them, all other mages are free of such temptations aswell? You don't see how flawed that logic is?
Especially in a circle as Kirkwall's with as strict, and in some cases depraved, Templars, would the mages be under constant pressure from demons. And they are, given the numbers of abominations and blood mages in Kirkwall far excedes anywhere else in the world.

Both the warden and the champion are tempted by demons at various times e.g Hawke is tempted during the Deep Roads. Now, of course that happens regardless of whether you play as a mage or a warrior/rogue, but a mage giving into temptation is much more dangerous (of course in neither game does the character become possessed, but  it's not like Bioware could make your char become an abomination before the game has ended).

I think it is very convienient for the Chantry to blame Tevinter Imperium blood mages for the darkspawn. It gives them the perfect justification for the Circle. 






 

[dragonflight288]

And so long as they have that justification, and people believe it, mages will always be hated and feared by the masses.

Just start a circle in Orzammar and close off lyrium trade with the chantry. See how long those templars leading the exalted marches last without their lyrium.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Right... And Orzammar would do that why? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Orzammar benefits nothing from such a deal.

[dragonflight288]

Actually in Origins if you complete Dagna's quest in Orzammar, they accept a Circle of Magi, and the Chantry calls an exalted march on Orzammar because of the fact. That's the reason they call an exalted march if you ignore Brother Burkel's quest in Orzammar.

As for what Orzammar gains, they gain magic to help on the front lines of the deep roads. They gain a steady access to healers. And they gain a larger number of enchanters.

And because dwarves are (supposedly) naturally resistant to magic, they can take over the templar's responsibility of fighting abominations.

the big con of my scenario is they lose the greatest export to the biggest buyer. Orzammar dies without its surface trade.

My idea was merely to show that the templars who are addicted to lyrium will have to leave the chantry in order to get their fix if such a problem arose.

[TEWR]

with Bhelen on the throne surface merchants flock to Orzammar in droves. The barkeep in the Blooming Rose mentions it if you talk to him.

[Abispa]

I remember picking up a heretical book about Andraste in Orzammar. According to that book, Andraste was actually a powerful mage. I like that theory and start one of my own: Andraste is Flemeth. Boy, won't the Divine be unhappy when Flemeth actually starts putting her plan in motion (if she hasn't already).

[TEWR]

you stole my theory (well, mine and Rifneno's)! I've been saying that for weeks!


Ah well, eventually people were bound to say the same thing.


EDIT:  I've been saying that Andraste is the Dumat OGB and that Flemeth is Andraste.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 07 juin 2011 - 12:54 .

[Crow_22]

Lol, man that is a good theory Abispa! I think that is strongly possible!

After all, Andraste and Flemeth DO have similar pasts. Not the same personalities at times, but similar in a strong sense.

I'm with you on that one, lol. I think that there IS higher powers, but Chantry got their story slightly off xD.


EDIT: I agree with you as well Ethereal. xD Forgot.

Modifié par Crow_22, 07 juin 2011 - 01:08 .

[EEmotion]

It's a Religion... Religion = 90% lies 10% truth.

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

you stole my theory (well, mine and Rifneno's)! I've been saying that for weeks!


Ah well, eventually people were bound to say the same thing.


EDIT:  I've been saying that Andraste is the Dumat OGB and that Flemeth is Andraste.

ROFL People have been saying that Flemeth is Andraste for well over a year, I'm sorry to say.  

[Silfren]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Actually in Origins if you complete Dagna's quest in Orzammar, they accept a Circle of Magi, and the Chantry calls an exalted march on Orzammar because of the fact. That's the reason they call an exalted march if you ignore Brother Burkel's quest in Orzammar.

As for what Orzammar gains, they gain magic to help on the front lines of the deep roads. They gain a steady access to healers. And they gain a larger number of enchanters.

And because dwarves are (supposedly) naturally resistant to magic, they can take over the templar's responsibility of fighting abominations.

the big con of my scenario is they lose the greatest export to the biggest buyer. Orzammar dies without its surface trade.

My idea was merely to show that the templars who are addicted to lyrium will have to leave the chantry in order to get their fix if such a problem arose.

Well, the Chantry considers an Exalted March, but doesn't go through with one...not yet, anyhoo.  But I didn't recall any epilogue where Orzammar loses its trade with the Chantry.  Isn't there an epilogue slide where they start trading lyrium outside of the Chantry, though?

Modifié par Silfren, 07 juin 2011 - 01:52 .

[TEWR]

Silfren wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

you stole my theory (well, mine and Rifneno's)! I've been saying that for weeks!


Ah well, eventually people were bound to say the same thing.


EDIT:  I've been saying that Andraste is the Dumat OGB and that Flemeth is Andraste.

ROFL People have been saying that Flemeth is Andraste for well over a year, I'm sorry to say.  

damn....


wait.... did they add in the OGB twist?

[Silfren]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Silfren wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

you stole my theory (well, mine and Rifneno's)! I've been saying that for weeks!


Ah well, eventually people were bound to say the same thing.


EDIT:  I've been saying that Andraste is the Dumat OGB and that Flemeth is Andraste.

ROFL People have been saying that Flemeth is Andraste for well over a year, I'm sorry to say.  

damn....


wait.... did they add in the OGB twist?

There's so many Andraste/Flemeth/OGB theories floating around it's hard to keep track of all the various incarnations.  But Andraste=Flemeth is one of the more popular ones.  I first heard it over on the wikia forums. 

[dragonflight288]

Well, the Chantry considers an Exalted March, but doesn't go through with one...not yet, anyhoo. But I didn't recall any epilogue where Orzammar loses its trade with the Chantry. Isn't there an epilogue slide where they start trading lyrium outside of the Chantry, though?

There isn't an epilogue where they stop trading with the chantry, and as Etheral Writer said, with Bhelen on the throne, merchants come in droves, so that would be outside the chantry.

My point was too attempt a social experiment. What would the templars and the chantry do if Orzammar cut off the lyrium trade with the Chantry? Would they destroy Orzammar and fight the darkspawn themselves? Or would they let their templars break away from lyrium?

My guess is that they would destroy Orzammar, or attempt to destroy it.

After all, while I'm playing through the game again, I found out a little something about the chantry in Rivain. Shortly after the Qunari retreated, a treaty was signed. In Rivain, the treaty was violated...twice.

The first time was by those in Rivain who had converted to the Qun of their own free will....which made up about all the northern islands. According to the treaty, all those loyal to the Qun must leave the mainland and go to Par Vollen or Saharron. These people, having been born and raised in Rivain refused, and they refused to give up the Qun.

The second time was by the chantry. Unable to convert the followers of the Qun in Rivain, they sent an army in and killed every man, woman, and child who followed the Qun.

[TEWR]

For a time I thought Flemeth was the Maker (and even posted it on the wikia), but now I'm convinced that the Dumat OGB-Andraste-Flemeth theory is it.

[TEWR]

It wasn't every man, woman, and child. But they did slaughter those who followed the Qun. If it was every one, than the leaders in Kont-Aar would've been slaughtered as well, but the codex says that it's a fortunate mystery that they didn't alert the other Qunari.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

One of the great things about Fantasy is that often religion does have an objective, provable truth... and people still get it wrong. Dragon Age has one of my favorite examples of that, and it'll be interesting to see how they progress that in the future. The whole "We know there is or was definitely some god stuff going on at some point but aren't sure about it exactly" thing reminds me of the Disc somewhat, though the situation in Ferelden is quite different.

My Dalish Warden is of the opinions that gods come and gods go... the maker will someday go the way of the Elven gods, and either the Elven gods will come back or somebody new will come along... hopefully someone who is much better at things than this "Maker," who frankly seems like kind of a jerk.

[Dave of Canada]

GavrielKay wrote...

How can the devs want us to believe that mages are constantly cajoled by demons in their dreams and distracted moments when we can play 7 years of Hawke's life in the company of other mages and never have it happen to us? Even a single quest from Hawke (or Merrill or Bethany if Hawke isn't a mage) where the mage is approached in their dreams and a demon attempts to trick them could advance that plot theme better than having Meredith and the Chantry just preach it.

Plot armor.

[GavrielKay]

Filament wrote...

They could have certainly implemented a mage-specific fade "ambush" when you go to your house though as a mage. That would have been neat. Ambushed by demons in your sleep I mean. Would have driven the point home a bit.

That is kinda what I was thinking.  Or even one from the point of view of one of the other mages.  I just don't feel the gameplay supports that bit of the lore.  I never get the ticking time bomb feeling that would help support the Chantry claim that mages need to be kept locked up their whole lives.

[Jugo616]

"Religion" is a synonim to "lies".

[Fangirl17]

I love reading speculations :3 It really shows that the story in Dragon Age has a huge amount of potential and Bioware could really make it spectacular. Whatever the outcome or explanation they give us, I hope it totally takes us by surprise and blows away our expectations (I'm getting my hopes up to much aren't I xD)

[Rifneno]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Right... And Orzammar would do that why? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Orzammar benefits nothing from such a deal.

Indeed. How stupid. A city under constant siege from darkspawn would have nothing to gain by making bestest friends foreverest with a bunch of people who can rain down hellfire and brimstone on mindless hordes. Unless... wait a second... !!!

dragonflight288 wrote...

the big con of my scenario is they lose the greatest export to the biggest buyer. Orzammar dies without its surface trade.

I don't think the lyrium trade is honestly that important to Orzammar.  Here's an exert from the codex:

The dwarves sell very little of the processed mineral to the surface, giving the greater portion of what they mine to their own smiths, who use it in the forging of all truly superior dwarven weapons and armor. What processed lyrium is sold on the surface goes only to the Chantry, who strictly control the supply.

Given that they only sell "very little" of what they mine, I doubt the very existence of the city depends upon that trade. Especially since they could just add that little bit to the great majority that goes into crafting enchanted objects and just sell those objects instead.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

For a time I thought Flemeth was the Maker (and even posted it on the wikia), but now I'm convinced that the Dumat OGB-Andraste-Flemeth theory is it.

Ditto. I've heard of a lot of great, well thought theories on these forums but that's the only one I actually expect to be true. The timing is just too perfect.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rifneno wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Right... And Orzammar would do that why? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Orzammar benefits nothing from such a deal.

Indeed. How stupid. A city under constant siege from darkspawn would have nothing to gain by making bestest friends foreverest with a bunch of people who can rain down hellfire and brimstone on mindless hordes. Unless... wait a second... !!!

And make an enemy of the rest of the world? What a splendid idea, then they could have enemies attacking both from below and from above! You are a genious sir! Orzammar could use a good old DP....

Now lets us put this stupid idea to rest shall we? It would be political and literal suicide of Orzammar to do such a thing. Orzammar isn't dependant on selling their lyrium, what they are dependant of is supplies from the surface. The only thing the surface want from Orzammar is lyrium. If the Dwarves won't supply lyrium, why would the surface(Chantry) trade with this hole (literally)?

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 07 juin 2011 - 05:13 .

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Indeed. How stupid. A city under constant siege from darkspawn would have nothing to gain by making bestest friends foreverest with a bunch of people who can rain down hellfire and brimstone on mindless hordes. Unless... wait a second... !!!

And make an enemy of the rest of the world? What a splendid idea, then they could have enemies attacking both from below and from above! You are a genious sir! Orzammar could use a good old DP....

Now lets us put this stupid idea to rest shall we? It would be political and literal suicide of Orzammar to do such a thing.

Isn't this basically the independent Circle of Orzammar that can transpire with Dagna's research and not aiding Brother Burkel (as long as The Warden didn't ask for the Magi boon)? It doesn't seem that the leadership of the dwarven kingdom cares that much about the Chantry's opinion when he willingly permits apostates in one of the last Great Thaigs remaining.