506 réponses à ce sujet

[LiquidGrape]

Akka le Vil wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Logical?  Who cares...

This sums it up pretty much <_<
People who cares are the ones who prefer believability and depth. Pretty much expected that "I want to be catered to" whimsical kids don't care about it, but it hardly makes your position defensible.

I love how you isolate that one part and dismiss every single argument she's made for the benefit of reaffirming your self-professed authority on the matter.

Stay classy.

[tmp7704]

ipgd wrote...

Oh, you weren't making a dirty joke there? I am disappointed

I was, but then it got all srs

[AngelicMachinery]

neppakyo wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I tried this before...  it didn't end as well as I hoped.  Dragon Age Origins taught me all I had to do was give people things and they'd like me,  no matter how abrassive my personality was.  Let me tell you,  it most certainly isn't true.  

It works in RL. Give a girl diamonds/gold/emeralds and watch her legs open faster than the speed of sound.

As a woman,  I've never understood the draw of a big sparkly rock myself.  I'm also not very fond of essentially calling my gender prositutes.

[Huntress]

[quote]AngelicMachinery wrote...

[quote]Huntress wrote...


[/quote]

Bi people are obviously more prone to being awesome obviously.

But seriously,  Isabella hits on Males and Females.  People seem to not realize that you know,  some people don't care what your equipment is.  When romances are obviously one of the big draws to a Bioware game I don't understand why they shouldn't make all options available to all.  Is it realistic?  Maybe?  How many people swing both ways in Thedas?  Is it like the exalted setting where it's abnormal to be straight or gay? Realism doesn't really come into affect when were discussing something as miniscule as sexuality in a fantasy world.

[/quote]

Isabella and Anders hit anyone, now your character has to make Merril and fenris to see you as a potential Li, they don't come to you the same as this others, you have to do the work for it.
To me this means Fenris is totally gay and my Fhawk is forcing him and Merril is a virgen and my hawk is forcing her.

See what I just did? Am I wrong with that idea? I don't think so, thats how I see it, and it feel forced on top of that.

And answering the question if I have seen female hitting on males, no, I haven't, and that doesn't mean am going to be by my window waiting for that moment or rush to the beach and wait for woman's to run after well built men's.

[/quote]

Maybe?  Though,  I'm a tad confused about forcing her because she's a virgin but if that's the way you see it that's the way you see it?  I like to pretend that Aveline enjoys giving piggyback rides to Varrick myself.  It makes the game far more awesome.

[/quote]

Hahaha! I totally agree, if we didn't do Aveline quest, she might even roll with hawk, am just saying that because i see one way and is not the same as someone also view. (sorry, my english is not very good)
It doesn't bother me been able to romance all the companions but saying DA2 a lesser game because of this, is totally wrong.
Now if they say is lesser because the city is small, durty and totally bland, ok thats fine.

[Mr.House]

tmp7704 wrote...

ipgd wrote...

Oh, you weren't making a dirty joke there? I am disappointed

I was, but then it got all srs

My dirty joke drivers are broken for today sadly.

[Mr.House]

neppakyo wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

What happens if you give them a dog bone?

Well, depends if she's into S&M, could find many uses for it. 3 uses for sure!

:lol:

[jlb524]

tmp7704 wrote...
I guess our definitions of "bad boy/girl" differ, and mine is much closer to what's practiced in the gang cultures than the occasional jaywalking 

Still, I don't even think what's practiced in gang cultures is close to some of the things the Warden can do.

tmp7704 wrote...
As far as DAO characters go, i think their relaxed attitude towards morals and such actually make a lot of sense -- Morrigan is romancing your character with ulterior motive in mind so she's quite obviously not going to be picky especially when she isn't exactly the "hug random kittens" type herself and continually urges you to look after your own benefit first and foremost,

Morrigan just needs the male Warden's sperm (or Alistair's)...that doesn't take romance or any kind of feelings.  She gets along well enough with her plan even if the Warden is female.

tmp7704 wrote...
and Leliana not only displays very dubious sense of morality herself, but is also known as someone who'd already been in a relationship with a morally bankrupt woman.

Still, nothing on the level of 'kill people and enslave their souls in a golem' or 'kill a young child when there is an option to save him'....she was a spy/thief/liar, but nothing as bad as any of that.  Even in Orlais, she avoided killing to finish her jobs and now she's trying to make herself a better person.

tmp7704 wrote...
Yes, but this is matter of mindset which was either taught or developed, and as such can be changed. This is different from sexuality which --as the GLBT people are quick to point out-- can't be altered through just working on one's attitude.

Attitudes that are taught cannot be changed as easily as you think...even today, where inter-racial couples are accepted, do you still see many of them?    Both biology and society is restrictive, and it's hard to say which one is more oppressive than the other.

tmp7704 wrote...
Because we see no instance of it that i can recall, and you could expect to see some if it was indeed a common occurence. Do you meet anyone over the course of two games who would express such preferences?

Have you gone into the brothel?

[jlb524]

Akka le Vil wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Logical?  Who cares...

This sums it up pretty much <_<
People who cares are the ones who prefer believability and depth. Pretty much expected that "I want to be catered to" whimsical kids don't care about it, but it hardly makes your position defensible.

Everybody wants to be catered to...that's why they come on here and complain tirelessly about everything they don't like in DA2...they want it changed in future games.

[Akka le Vil]

LiquidGrape wrote...

The lunacy of linking TV Tropes aside (My afternoon! Gone!)

Sure it tends to eats at your free time, he ?
(just spent some hours aimlessly wandering the pages... WHERE HAS MY SATURDAY GONE ?!!)

But frankly, if the occurrence of bisexuality in four, I count four characters is what tips those scales for some people...

I don't know. It smells rather reductive to me.

The first problem is not "four people". The problem is "four out of four". It just feels not believable.
The second, and worse, problem is that it's not really about the character being "bisexual" (save for Isabella, who is, at least, consistent), it's about the characters having no set sexuality and just being "of the right preference", which tends to make them feel not as a "gay/straight/bi" character, but simply as a "romance option without gender check" - ie, more of a mechanism than a character.

[Russalka]

Why must bisexuality be singled out in a story of a family from thousands of refugees achieving greatness, an outsider hero becoming a leader of a city with the help of a group of outlandish people, at least two of which who can show romantic interest in the hero, and be called unrealistic and breaking of immersion?

At least you can avoid most of the bisexuality, try to avoid meeting with an almost reasonable abomination or a beardless dwarf who doesn't wish to smash everything with a maul and be dressed up in heavy armour and talk in a Scottish accent.

Anything can break someone's immersion.

Modifié par Russalka, 04 juin 2011 - 05:01 .

[jlb524]

Akka le Vil wrote...
The first problem is not "four people". The problem is "four out of four". It just feels not believable.
The second, and worse, problem is that it's not really about the character being "bisexual" (save for Isabella, who is, at least, consistent), it's about the characters having no set sexuality and just being "of the right preference", which tends to make them feel not as a "gay/straight/bi" character, but simply as a "romance option without gender check" - ie, more of a mechanism than a character.

I think that mechanism actually reflects Thedas more than having each character come out and say, "I'm bisexual!"  "I'm gay!" as those concepts seem to not exist.  That's what I'm saying...they don't have a set sexuality b/c people in Thedas don't define it.  It's just how we don't have any terms that set and define one's preference in a hair color of their mates.

Plus, how is Isabela a 'conisistent' and believable bisexual (even though even she wouldn't be classified as one in-universe)?

[SilentK]

Akka le Vil wrote...

The first problem is not "four people". The problem is "four out of four". It just feels not believable.
The second, and worse, problem is that it's not really about the character being "bisexual" (save for Isabella, who is, at least, consistent), it's about the characters having no set sexuality and just being "of the right preference", which tends to make them feel not as a "gay/straight/bi" character, but simply as a "romance option without gender check" - ie, more of a mechanism than a character.

Merrill feelt like a mechanism for you? I think she was adorable and the romance was very much in character for my F!Hawke. Don't worry, if you don't want to romance her I certainly will     
   

Modifié par SilentK, 04 juin 2011 - 05:01 .

[Siansonea]

This whole argument cracks me up. People get so worked up over same-sex romance that the other aspects of the game that really ARE silly (Blood Mage Hawke using Hemorrhage right in front of Knight-Commander Meredith with no reaction from her, for instance) don't elicit nearly as much outrage. You know, you could meet up with four bisexual people in real life, and hang with them. There is a non-zero probability of that happening in real life. But there is ZERO chance that Knight Commander Meredith would suffer a blood mage to live if she witnessed them using blood magic. For that matter, it's pretty unlikely she would accept the aid of an apostate either, no matter how dire the circumstances. But hey, hand-waving that is fine, but 4 bisexuals in an 8-person group of adventurers? Unrealistic!!!!!!

Gee, you don't think "adventuring" might be a particularly attractive pastime for bisexuals do you? Could that be it? And is the incidence of bisexuality among elves the same as it is among humans? And is the incidence of bisexuality in Thedas the same as it is IRL? And...why the eff is THIS the thing that matters so much to people?

[FenrisDeSolar]

yaw wrote...
*snip*

I liked the fact that I could build a really strong sisterly relationship with Morrigan. When I chased her down in Witch Hunt it was because I was her friend. She was upset when she left me because she we had such a strong friendship.
You're sure of this because she's straight. If she were bisexual, it would be confusing, because even if you'd never flirted there's the possibilty that she might be romantically interested. Sexuality just changes the situation. 

I'm sorry, but this just sort of feels like; "You can't be best friends with bisexuals or homosexuals because they all want to get into your pants".  Even if that's not what you meant, that's what it sounded like to me. I don't think that logic even applies in fantasy, and it certainly doesn't apply in reality. You can be best friends with a bisexual Morrigan even if you play as a woman. You might not be her type, you know. Or she might not be yours. Whatever. If there isn't a romantic sub-plot, I don't see why you would assume that there would be, simply because of her sexuality.

I just think it's better to have some bisexual, some straight, even some purely homosexual characters all mixed up, instead of having access to every single LI. 

I still agree with this, though. It seems the fairest solution, and the most realistic one.

[Akka le Vil]

LiquidGrape wrote...

I love how you isolate that one part and dismiss every single argument she's made for the benefit of reaffirming your self-professed authority on the matter.

Stay classy.

Honestly, it's a bit useless to use argument with someone who flat-out say that she doesn't care about logic.
Especially considering that arguments and reasoning are built upon logic and all, and that the lack of believability of the situation is one of the main problems of the whole thing.

[nos_astra]

Akka le Vil wrote...
The first problem is not "four people". The problem is "four out of four". It just feels not believable.

It's not four out of four, it's as many as you choose to romance with a same sex character out of four. That makes two out of four for each gender, potentially.

It's like Schrödinger's cat. Their sexual orientation is in superposition.

Modifié par klarabella, 04 juin 2011 - 05:16 .

[Chromie]

neppakyo wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I tried this before...  it didn't end as well as I hoped.  Dragon Age Origins taught me all I had to do was give people things and they'd like me,  no matter how abrassive my personality was.  Let me tell you,  it most certainly isn't true.  

It works in RL. Give a girl diamonds/gold/emeralds and watch her legs open faster than the speed of sound.

QFT.

[tmp7704]

Siansonea II wrote...

the other aspects of the game that really ARE silly (Blood Mage Hawke using Hemorrhage right in front of Knight-Commander Meredith with no reaction from her, for instance) don't elicit nearly as much outrage.

We must be reading different forums. On this one the fact how the apostate Hawke goes completely ignored by the templars has been subject of wailing, ridicule, rants, complaints, multiple comics and general gnashing of teeth.

Modifié par tmp7704, 04 juin 2011 - 05:25 .

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

Akka le Vil wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

The lunacy of linking TV Tropes aside (My afternoon! Gone!)

Sure it tends to eats at your free time, he ?
(just spent some hours aimlessly wandering the pages... WHERE HAS MY SATURDAY GONE ?!!)

But frankly, if the occurrence of bisexuality in four, I count four characters is what tips those scales for some people...

I don't know. It smells rather reductive to me.

The first problem is not "four people". The problem is "four out of four". It just feels not believable.
The second, and worse, problem is that it's not really about the character being "bisexual" (save for Isabella, who is, at least, consistent), it's about the characters having no set sexuality and just being "of the right preference", which tends to make them feel not as a "gay/straight/bi" character, but simply as a "romance option without gender check" - ie, more of a mechanism than a character.

Exactly.

[JoHnDoE14]

Kaiser_Wilhelm wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

The lunacy of linking TV Tropes aside (My afternoon! Gone!)

Sure it tends to eats at your free time, he ?
(just spent some hours aimlessly wandering the pages... WHERE HAS MY SATURDAY GONE ?!!)

But frankly, if the occurrence of bisexuality in four, I count four characters is what tips those scales for some people...

I don't know. It smells rather reductive to me.

The first problem is not "four people". The problem is "four out of four". It just feels not believable.
The second, and worse, problem is that it's not really about the character being "bisexual" (save for Isabella, who is, at least, consistent), it's about the characters having no set sexuality and just being "of the right preference", which tends to make them feel not as a "gay/straight/bi" character, but simply as a "romance option without gender check" - ie, more of a mechanism than a character.

Exactly.

I also agree.

[slimgrin]

Alright. Take two:

Ideally, I'd like each character's sexuality to be unique, but if the resources allotted to the project don't allow that, then I guess the Bi option, and being inclusive, makes sense.

In the end though, I respect devs who take risks. The Bi option doesn't qualify imo.

[Siansonea]

klarabella wrote...

Akka le Vil wrote...
The first problem is not "four people". The problem is "four out of four". It just feels not believable.

It's not four out of four, it's as many as you choose to romance with a same sex character out of four. That makes two out of four for each gender, potentially.

It's like Schrödinger's cat. Their sexual orientation is in superposition.

This is most especially true of Merrill, from what I gather she is a virgin, and if Hawke doesn't try to hit that, who knows which way she would go? Merrill is lonely, and she might be less about genitals and more about personal connection with Hawke. If anyone fits the definition of the term "Hawkesexual", it's Merrill. No one else ever reaches out to Merrill, she's been shunned by her clan, and she is an apostate in a city of templars. The only people besides Hawke who do take Merrill under their wing are Isabela and Varric, both of whom espouse a "carpe diem" lifestyle. You don't think these factors might override some general preference for innies or outies Merrill might have?

Anders and Isabella seem emphatically bisexual to me, though they might not be equally attracted to both sexes. I always felt like Izzy has a slight preference for women, and that Anders mostly prefers men. And Fenris is an amnesiac former slave—if you look in the dictionary under "damaged goods" you'll see Fenris' picture. So even if Fenris might prefer men, let's say, he might go for a woman anyway, just because she offers him something he isn't getting elsewhere in his life, somewhat in the same way as Merrill.

We can't look at these characters sexual "flexibility" apart from their other characteristics. From my observation most of them would overlook something as minor as gender in a potential mate, given how empty their lives are otherwise.

Modifié par Siansonea II, 04 juin 2011 - 05:31 .

[Monica83]

So almost all party bi... Blood mages benhind of every angle of the city..Recyled areas...mobs..Character...

Merryl=retarded tali

What a wonderfull game

[Siansonea]

Ringo12 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

AngelicMachinery wrote...

I tried this before...  it didn't end as well as I hoped.  Dragon Age Origins taught me all I had to do was give people things and they'd like me,  no matter how abrassive my personality was.  Let me tell you,  it most certainly isn't true.  

It works in RL. Give a girl diamonds/gold/emeralds and watch her legs open faster than the speed of sound.

QFT.

*wonders idly how many people who make snickering middle school jokes like this have ever even seen a female human naked in person*

[Mr.House]

Monica83 wrote...

So almost all party bi... Blood mages benhind of every angle of the city..Recyled areas...mobs..Character...

Merryl=retarded tali

What a wonderfull game

First her name is Merrill, second she is nothing like Tali so that's a insult to her character and thirdly you suck at trolling.

Modifié par Mr.House, 04 juin 2011 - 05:35 .