506 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

kglaser wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

How does it water down the characters?

I suppose it doesn't actually, not from the standpoint that each playthrough is a separate beast and they shouldn't be looked at together, but I can't seem to avoid doing that.  If I play twice with the same LI, but the first time with an opposite-sex romance and the next with a same-sex romance, it gets confused in my head.  Intellectually, I of course know they are two different playthroughs, but for me, it sets up a kind of cognitive dissonance that makes me that much less enamored of the character overall.  I don't know, maybe I'm just irredeemably weird.

I understand, but that's all independent of the character and how well they are written.

I sometimes run into this issue when romancing the same character even with another same gendered PC.  I'm so used to the LI being with one particular Hawke that when I make another one for the same romance it just seems..odd to go through the romance with her.

[kglaser]

Mr.House wrote...

kglaser wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

How does it water down the characters?

I suppose it doesn't actually, not from the standpoint that each playthrough is a separate beast and they shouldn't be looked at together, but I can't seem to avoid doing that.  If I play twice with the same LI, but the first time with an opposite-sex romance and the next with a same-sex romance, it gets confused in my head.  Intellectually, I of course know they are two different playthroughs, but for me, it sets up a kind of cognitive dissonance that makes me that much less enamored of the character overall.  I don't know, maybe I'm just irredeemably weird.

I'm going to say this, and this will make me look like a real ass but I simply don't care anymore. That is your fault, not Bioware/the writers/characters ect, that's your fault. Many people can avoid it so it's not the games fault.

You can call me an ass if you want.

From here, it certainly looks as though you do care.
But not into name-calling.  Your opinion is of course valid.

[kglaser]

jlb524 wrote...

kglaser wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

How does it water down the characters?

I suppose it doesn't actually, not from the standpoint that each playthrough is a separate beast and they shouldn't be looked at together, but I can't seem to avoid doing that.  If I play twice with the same LI, but the first time with an opposite-sex romance and the next with a same-sex romance, it gets confused in my head.  Intellectually, I of course know they are two different playthroughs, but for me, it sets up a kind of cognitive dissonance that makes me that much less enamored of the character overall.  I don't know, maybe I'm just irredeemably weird.

I understand, but that's all independent of the character and how well they are written.

I sometimes run into this issue when romancing the same character even with another same gendered PC.  I'm so used to the LI being with one particular Hawke that when I make another one for the same romance it just seems..odd to go through the romance with her.

I'm glad you can see what I was trying to say, even if I could have expressed myself better.

[slimgrin]

Not everyone should be so conveniently oriented. That undermines character development. If a character likes the same sex, make them gay. Period. This would take some balls of course. Not sure Bioware will be the one to do it.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Characters in DA 3 will be trisexual, there is a NPC love interest which is an amoeba. Asexual love interests are the new black...and the luv scenes will be hawt!

Lucy Amoeba: "Oh Hawke, my cell wall is all a quiver whenever you are near."
Hawke: "Get ready, I'm gonna push your awesome button Champion-Style...like a Spartan!"

*Screen goes dark, followed by unpleasant squishing noises. Followed by a five second fade-in with Hawke and the Amoeba smoking cigarettes.*

Hawke: "Booya, even Isabela has never gone here yet!"

[kglaser]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

Characters in DA 3 will be trisexual, there is a NPC love interest which is an amoeba. Asexual love interests are the new black...and the luv scenes will be hawt!

Lucy Amoeba: "Oh Hawke, my cell wall is all a quiver whenever you are near."
Hawke: "Get ready, I'm gonna push your awesome button Champion-Style...like a Spartan!"

*Screen goes dark, followed by unpleasant squishing noises. Followed by a five second fade-in with Hawke and the Amoeba smoking cigarettes.*

Hawke: "Booya, even Isabela has never gone here yet!"

I work in a Protistology lab, and your post cracked me up.  Well-done, sir.

[jlb524]

slimgrin wrote...

Not everyone should be so conveniently oriented. That undermines character development. If a character likes the same sex, make them gay. Period. This would take some balls of course. Not sure Bioware will be the one to do it.

Being gay will only make for an interesting story/character dev if homosexuality is a big deal in Thedas.  In general, it's not.  There's nothing all too exciting about being a homosexual in Kirkwall if it's widely accepted and not oppressed by religion/the state, etc.

There's nothing inherintly all that interesting or different about being gay to affect character dev, unless society makes it so.

[syllogi]

slimgrin wrote...

Not everyone should be so conveniently oriented. That undermines character development. If a character likes the same sex, make them gay. Period. This would take some balls of course. Not sure Bioware will be the one to do it.

Character development should not be tied to whether the character in question wants to have sex with the player character.  If that becomes a problem, it's the fault of the writing putting too much emphasis on romances and not enough on creating a convincing personality for the character beyond the romance.

In that case, advocate for doing away with romances in games altogether, and ask the writers to focus on building friendships with party members.  Problem solved.

[kglaser]

Making someone gay in a game is (thankfully) not nearly the big deal it would have been a decade ago.

I remember when the adventure game "The Longest Journey" came out, some people were up in arms because the main character's landlady was a lesbian. That's it. No sex in the game; the only thing she did was mention sex with her lover one time, and people flew off the handle; it was completely absurd. This was about 10 years ago. Thank God we have progressed past that.

[jlb524]

kglaser wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

kglaser wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

How does it water down the characters?

I suppose it doesn't actually, not from the standpoint that each playthrough is a separate beast and they shouldn't be looked at together, but I can't seem to avoid doing that.  If I play twice with the same LI, but the first time with an opposite-sex romance and the next with a same-sex romance, it gets confused in my head.  Intellectually, I of course know they are two different playthroughs, but for me, it sets up a kind of cognitive dissonance that makes me that much less enamored of the character overall.  I don't know, maybe I'm just irredeemably weird.

I understand, but that's all independent of the character and how well they are written.

I sometimes run into this issue when romancing the same character even with another same gendered PC.  I'm so used to the LI being with one particular Hawke that when I make another one for the same romance it just seems..odd to go through the romance with her.

I'm glad you can see what I was trying to say, even if I could have expressed myself better.

Though, I forgot to mention, it doesn't make me less enamoured with the character overall.  Let's say when I romance Merrill with a Lady Hawke that's not my canon, it lacks a certain something...an emotional connection that's there when I do it with my canon.

[In Exile]

I think that sexuality ought to be something that's addressed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a character being bi - but it should be the case that a character is consistent. If Karl is an important part of Ander's past, then the player should hear it irrespetive of the PC's gender. If Anders is attracted to people and not to genders, he should say that.

[Brockololly]

Oh, its this topic again:unsure:

slimgrin wrote...

Not everyone should be so conveniently oriented. That undermines character development. If a character likes the same sex, make them gay. Period. This would take some balls of course. Not sure Bioware will be the one to do it.

This.

Just have gay/bi/straight LI's. No PC pandering Hawke-sexual ones, no conveniently "Bi" situations where every LI will end up going for the PC just to pander to the playerbase. More defined NPCs, please.

In Exile wrote...

I think that sexuality ought to be  something that's addressed. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a  character being bi - but it should be the case that a character is  consistent. If Karl is an important part of Ander's past, then the  player should hear it irrespetive of the PC's gender. If Anders is  attracted to people and not to genders, he should say that.

And this as well.

Modifié par Brockololly, 04 juin 2011 - 04:13 .

[kglaser]

I think I should say that I still think all the characters are great overall...it's not like this issue "ruins" anyone for me, or anything.

[jlb524]

Brockololly wrote...

This.

Just have gay/bi/straight LI's. No PC pandering Hawke-sexual ones, no conveniently "Bi" situations where every LI will end up going for the PC just to pander to the playerbase. More defined NPCs, please.

Origins did a lot of pandering as well, 'cept with gender.  Beyond that, they were all 'Wardensexual'.

[Tragic_Arsenic]

jlb524 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Not everyone should be so conveniently oriented. That undermines character development. If a character likes the same sex, make them gay. Period. This would take some balls of course. Not sure Bioware will be the one to do it.

Being gay will only make for an interesting story/character dev if homosexuality is a big deal in Thedas.  In general, it's not.  There's nothing all too exciting about being a homosexual in Kirkwall if it's widely accepted and not oppressed by religion/the state, etc.

There's nothing inherintly all that interesting or different about being gay to affect character dev, unless society makes it so.

^This.

It's been stated several times by the writers that sexuality is viewed much more openly in regards to same-sex relationships in Thedas. If you look at it while thinking that they hold the same views on sexuality as whatever country you're in, then of course you'll find it strange. However, in the context of the world of Dragon Age, most people wouldn't even bat an eye to it. There's even brothels that cater to all sexual orientations, regardless of gender. If society where more open towards bisexuality and didn't treat it with such disdain, you can bet that there would be more people willing to be open up about their non-heterosexual prefferences.

And the idea that it breaks immersion or undermines character development. If Zevran where heterosexual, he'd be pretty much the same person in regards to the way others would view him in Thedas. The only problem here isn't the game world, it's the player's views clouding what they think is "right" in a universe whose creation they had nothing to do with.

Thedas =/= Earth

[Kaiser Shepard]

slimgrin wrote...

Not everyone should be so conveniently oriented. That undermines character development. If a character likes the same sex, make them gay. Period. This would take some balls of course. Not sure Bioware will be the one to do it.

I understand your point, but from a development perspective (or rather, the reception part of it) it does make sense to make everyone bi. If Anders was just straight, Fenris only into men, Merrill only in females who deal with demons and Isabela... well, just as bi as usual, people would be disappointed. In the end it's just a videogame and you don't want to be restricted as much as you would be the real world.

It's pretty much was the same back in Origins, though: Morrigan and Alistair were only straight for story purposes.

I do, however, find it stupid that the ME team has decided to do it as well with the very last game of their series.

[TheBlackBaron]

jlb524 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

This.

Just have gay/bi/straight LI's. No PC pandering Hawke-sexual ones, no conveniently "Bi" situations where every LI will end up going for the PC just to pander to the playerbase. More defined NPCs, please.

Origins did a lot of pandering as well, 'cept with gender.  Beyond that, they were all 'Wardensexual'.

No, I seem to recall Morrigan and Zevran talking of their past sexual exploits quite a bit, and Leliana wasn't exactly a chaste sister either. 

For that matter, you also had Wynne pulling some shockers occasionally...and Oghren, who was basically "drunk drunk drunk rage drunk sex sex sex drunk sex" 24/7. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 04 juin 2011 - 04:28 .

[lobi]

I teased Morrigan about Lili and I sneaking into her tent, only the once though.

[jlb524]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

No, I seem to recall Morrigan and Zevran talking of their past sexual exploits quite a bit, and Leliana wasn't exactly a chaste sister either.

All this proves is that the DA:O crew was more sexually active.

With Leliana, as I only play Female Wardens, I don't hear anything about her supposed sexual/romantic attraction to men though she's supposed to be a bisexual.

Hell, she's a lesbian in my game.

Also, when I say "Hawkesexual" or "Wardensexual" or whatever, I meant that any PC can nab the LI regardless of any specific attributes (except for gender in DA:O) not that "They only have sex with Hawke/Warden".

We can infer that this isn't the case with all the DA2 LIs, besides Merrill.

Modifié par jlb524, 04 juin 2011 - 04:41 .

[Harid]

All I know is if Bioware keeps this "Everyone is Bisexual" thing going forward, I hope they don't tie romances to trophies, because sexuality doesn't work that way, and it kills my immersion.

I can't wait to see Shepard come out in ME3, when the ****ing Reapers are destroying the galaxy. I expect not to see anyone in game say "What the ****, Paris just turned into a ****ing crater, isn't there a better time for this?"

I'm done with romances.

[Esbatty]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

This.

Just have gay/bi/straight LI's. No PC pandering Hawke-sexual ones, no conveniently "Bi" situations where every LI will end up going for the PC just to pander to the playerbase. More defined NPCs, please.

Origins did a lot of pandering as well, 'cept with gender.  Beyond that, they were all 'Wardensexual'.

No, I seem to recall Morrigan and Zevran talking of their past sexual exploits quite a bit, and Leliana wasn't exactly a chaste sister either. 

For that matter, you also had Wynne pulling some shockers occasionally...and Oghren, who was basically "drunk drunk drunk rage drunk sex sex sex drunk sex" 24/7. 

Don't forget Dog in Witchhunt had just returned from personally tripling the post-Blight Mabari population.

[TheBlackBaron]

jlb524 wrote...

Also, when I say "Hawkesexual" or "Wardensexual" or whatever, I meant that any PC can nab the LI regardless of any specific attributes (except for gender in DA:O) not that "They only have sex with Hawke/Warden".

We can infer that this isn't the case with all the DA2 LIs, besides Merrill.

Sure, any PC can romance a specific LI if they fall within the gender attributes. But the difference is that they all at least seem to have or have had an interest in people that are not the main character (Alistair perhaps being an exception). Thus, I can't understand calling them "Wardensexual". 

In DA2...listen, I love Merrill, but her and Fenris are two of the worst offenders of Hawkesexuality. Anders and Isabela, not so much, but in my opinion Anders has his own issues with sudden sexuality. 

@Batty: Dog is a such a stud. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 04 juin 2011 - 04:52 .

[Chromie]

Harid wrote...

All I know is if Bioware keeps this "Everyone is Bisexual" thing going forward, I hope they don't tie romances to trophies, because sexuality doesn't work that way, and it kills my immersion
I'm done with romances.

You sure?

[jlb524]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Sure, any PC can romance a specific LI if they fall within the gender attributes. But the difference is that they all at least seem to have or have had an interest in people that are not the main character (Alistair perhaps being an exception). Thus, I can't understand calling them "Wardensexual". 

In DA2...listen, I love Merrill, but her and Fenris are two of the worst offenders of Hawkesexuality. Anders and Isabela, not so much, but in my opinion Anders has his own issues with sudden sexuality.

How is Fenris an offender if it's possibly for him to have an affair with Isabela?

This issue is indepenedent of sexuality regardless.  Some people just aren't all that sexual and place much much larger priorities on things other than love/sex (Merrill)...I'm not quite sure how that's a bad thing.

Modifié par jlb524, 04 juin 2011 - 04:58 .

[Harid]

Ringo12 wrote...

Harid wrote...

All I know is if Bioware keeps this "Everyone is Bisexual" thing going forward, I hope they don't tie romances to trophies, because sexuality doesn't work that way, and it kills my immersion
I'm done with romances.

You sure?

I am not certain what you are implying or rather, trying to imply.  Flesh out your response rather than being flippant, please.

And I think the Hawke-sexuality thing is part of the power fantasy that will not change, due to complaints of Haer-Dalis stealing Aerie from you in BG2.  To put it succintly, stupid, whiny fans lead to that change, unfortunately.

jlb524 wrote...
How is Fenris an offender if it's possibly for him to have an affair with Isabela?

Because as far as I know, he cannot leave you and start a releationship with Isabela.  Having a one night stand with Isabela isn't really saying much.

Modifié par Harid, 04 juin 2011 - 05:19 .