316 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

So, TIM is a Saren rip-off, when in reality, it's more likely that they have similar mindsets because they are both indoctrinated.

[Homebound]

TIM isnt a Saren ripoff. They r both antagonist avatars for the reapers and both serve the same purpose, but they arent the same character.

[Abispa]

I've read thousands of complaints from Dragon Age fans who claim that DA2 was trying to copy ME2. Maybe we'll see Mass Effect fans complain that ME3 is copying Dragon Age Origins by turning TIM into another Loghain. The Reapers are archedemons and the husks are darkspawn. And, as a tribute to Isabella, Miranda will run around with no pants.

[jbblue05]

I am really annoyed by Bioware for what they did to Cerberus .
They are over-mailking " Cerberus are evilz" card way too much

Why does it have to be Cerberus that 180 on the Reaper threat.

Why can't it be STG, turian, or Asari commanos that are trying to take out Shepard.and Cerberus got your back.
Pro-human groups= BAD  Bending over for aliens= GOOD

Paragons are being heavily favored.evrything they touch turns the gold while everything Renegades touches turns to flames

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Paragon favoritism, what else can be said?

[Rekkampum]

jbblue05 wrote...

I am really annoyed by Bioware for what they did to Cerberus .
They are over-mailking " Cerberus are evilz" card way too much

Why does it have to be Cerberus that 180 on the Reaper threat.

Why can't it be STG, turian, or Asari commanos that are trying to take out Shepard.and Cerberus got your back.
Pro-human groups= BAD  Bending over for aliens= GOOD

Paragons are being heavily favored.evrything they touch turns the gold while everything Renegades touches turns to flames

Not true. I'm a Renegade and I don't like Cerberus for pragmatic reasons. And you've seriously misconstrued why Paragons dislike Cerberus, which probably has more to do with their willing sacrifice of fellow human beings in sick - and usually failed- experiments, and less to do with a Pro human attitude.

[Barquiel]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Paragon favoritism, what else can be said?

Yes...the Cerberus railroading in ME2 was clearly Paragon favoritism. Why can't it be the STG/asari/council ( they recognized the reaper threat if you saved the Destiny Ascension) in ME2?

[Seboist]

jbblue05 wrote...

I am really annoyed by Bioware for what they did to Cerberus .
They are over-mailking " Cerberus are evilz" card way too much

Why does it have to be Cerberus that 180 on the Reaper threat.

Why can't it be STG, turian, or Asari commanos that are trying to take out Shepard.and Cerberus got your back.
Pro-human groups= BAD  Bending over for aliens= GOOD

Paragons are being heavily favored.evrything they touch turns the gold while everything Renegades touches turns to flames

I was anticipating the Batarians fulfilling the role of the ME1 Geth and Collectors this time around due to the whole Arrival thing and the Reapers entering the galaxy through their space but nope it's railroading Cerberus time.

So yeah, more pro-Paragon bull****.

[Rekkampum]

Barquiel wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Paragon favoritism, what else can be said?

Yes...the Cerberus railroading in ME2 was clearly Paragon favoritism. Why can't it be the STG/asari/council ( they recognized the reaper threat if you saved the Destiny Ascension) in ME2?

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

[jbblue05]

Rekkampum wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

I am really annoyed by Bioware for what they did to Cerberus .
They are over-mailking " Cerberus are evilz" card way too much

Why does it have to be Cerberus that 180 on the Reaper threat.

Why can't it be STG, turian, or Asari commanos that are trying to take out Shepard.and Cerberus got your back.
Pro-human groups= BAD  Bending over for aliens= GOOD

Paragons are being heavily favored.evrything they touch turns the gold while everything Renegades touches turns to flames

Not true. I'm a Renegade and I don't like Cerberus for pragmatic reasons. And you've seriously misconstrued why Paragons dislike Cerberus, which probably has more to do with their willing sacrifice of fellow human beings in sick - and usually failed- experiments, and less to do with a Pro human attitude.

I'm misconstrued?
Cerberus are evil is the most common argument by a vast margin.

[Barquiel]

Rekkampum wrote...

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

3:50 - Asari Councilor:  The Council also owes you a great personal debt Commander, one we can never repay. You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers.

ME2: "Ah Yes, Reapers"

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

So, TIM is a Saren rip-off, when in reality, it's more likely that they have similar mindsets because they are both indoctrinated.

No, Saren's choice was a logical one and made sense for him. I don't buy that the indoctrination alone allowed him to do what he did. It might have spead up the process and made him more eager, but he does too good a job defending his actions to just be a puppet.

All Shepard does is appeal to his heart, that emotional part of him that wants to believe there is another way.

That's exactly how indoctrination works. It makes you think that what you're being forced to believe is what you believe and that you made the decision on your own when in reality its just what Soverign wanted him to think. Think about what Liara's mom said she at first wanted to talk Saren out of it but then the more he spoke to here the more what he said 'made sense to her' and then she switched sides. That was indoctrination it makes you think it makes sense and that its logical. The real Saren would never destroy the Council and 99.9% of all life in the galaxy so that 0.1% could be boot lickers. Didn't you pay attention to Virmire? When Shepard was getting through to Saren Sovering latter implanted him with more tech to make the indoctrination stronger which made his 'beliefs' stronger.

The reason Saren wasn't able to be severed from the indoctrination the way Liara's mom was is because Saren was a meat puppet for years.

[Slurms McKenzie]

Hmmm, I don't like the notion that TIM is indoctrinated and hence why Cerberus is working for the reapers, it just doesn't make any sense. I mean, I thought that Cerberus was made up of seperate cells, so there is no possible way of all of them being indoctrinated.

Furthermore, even if TIM is indoctrinated that doesn't mean all of his followers would be. Cerberus employees were also supposed to be some form of human ultranationalist racists so why would they agree to attack Earth and work for reapers? Surely, the vast majority would have thought "Hang on, wait a minute here, I'm a xenophobic space fascist, humanity is racially superior and must rule all other species, attacking Earth and our capital and waging a genocidal war against our own kind is going to be a bit of a spanner in the works there, and frankly it's a little bit retarded. I'm not going to work for TIM".

As far as I can see, there's no logical reason for the whole of Cerberus agreeing to fight alongside the reapers on Earth.

Good Luck and Stay Safe

[Dave666]

Barquiel wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

3:50 - Asari Councilor:  The Council also owes you a great personal debt Commander, one we can never repay. You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers.

ME2: "Ah Yes, Reapers"

Thank you.  I was just about to search for that same video.

It really is amazing how much effort was put into railroading us into working with Cerberus.

First they killed Shepard, then immediately resurrected him/her.  Sure, it allowed for two years to pass but a coma or being missing in action could have covered that just as easilly without involving Cerberus at all.  It also allowed for a 'reset' but 'Data Corruption Detected' would have worked fine, it did in ME:1.

Next they changed the Council from believing Shepard about the Reaper threat to 'Ah yes, Reapers'.

Then they changed Cerberus from a small ex alliance covert operation gone rogue into a massively well funded organization that throws logo's on everything they touch and can apparently 'Cure Death'.

[GreenDragon37]

Dave666 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

3:50 - Asari Councilor:  The Council also owes you a great personal debt Commander, one we can never repay. You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers.

ME2: "Ah Yes, Reapers"

Thank you.  I was just about to search for that same video.

It really is amazing how much effort was put into railroading us into working with Cerberus.

First they killed Shepard, then immediately resurrected him/her.  Sure, it allowed for two years to pass but a coma or being missing in action could have covered that just as easilly without involving Cerberus at all.  It also allowed for a 'reset' but 'Data Corruption Detected' would have worked fine, it did in ME:1.

Next they changed the Council from believing Shepard about the Reaper threat to 'Ah yes, Reapers'.

Then they changed Cerberus from a small ex alliance covert operation gone rogue into a massively well funded organization that throws logo's on everything they touch and can apparently 'Cure Death'.

And they said BioWare railroaded people into working against Cerberus? Hah! 

[Dave666]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

3:50 - Asari Councilor:  The Council also owes you a great personal debt Commander, one we can never repay. You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers.

ME2: "Ah Yes, Reapers"

Thank you.  I was just about to search for that same video.

It really is amazing how much effort was put into railroading us into working with Cerberus.

First they killed Shepard, then immediately resurrected him/her.  Sure, it allowed for two years to pass but a coma or being missing in action could have covered that just as easilly without involving Cerberus at all.  It also allowed for a 'reset' but 'Data Corruption Detected' would have worked fine, it did in ME:1.

Next they changed the Council from believing Shepard about the Reaper threat to 'Ah yes, Reapers'.

Then they changed Cerberus from a small ex alliance covert operation gone rogue into a massively well funded organization that throws logo's on everything they touch and can apparently 'Cure Death'.

And they said BioWare railroaded people into working against Cerberus? Hah! 

...and thats not even counting the whole circular argument thing...

Why are we working for Cerberus?

Because the Council won't help us.

Why won't the Council help us?

Because we're working for Cerberus.

Ok, fine!  I'll go tell Cerberus where they can shove it!  Wait a minute!  Where's the option! Grrr....

[Golden Owl]

Rekkampum wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

I am really annoyed by Bioware for what they did to Cerberus .
They are over-mailking " Cerberus are evilz" card way too much

Why does it have to be Cerberus that 180 on the Reaper threat.

Why can't it be STG, turian, or Asari commanos that are trying to take out Shepard.and Cerberus got your back.
Pro-human groups= BAD  Bending over for aliens= GOOD

Paragons are being heavily favored.evrything they touch turns the gold while everything Renegades touches turns to flames

Not true. I'm a Renegade and I don't like Cerberus for pragmatic reasons. And you've seriously misconstrued why Paragons dislike Cerberus, which probably has more to do with their willing sacrifice of fellow human beings in sick - and usually failed- experiments, and less to do with a Pro human attitude.

Well said^...Thank you Rekkampum

[Golden Owl]

Barquiel wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Paragon favoritism, what else can be said?

Yes...the Cerberus railroading in ME2 was clearly Paragon favoritism. Why can't it be the STG/asari/council ( they recognized the reaper threat if you saved the Destiny Ascension) in ME2?

If favortism is the argument here....then can I claim that renegades were favored in ME2? I certainly didn't want to work for Cerberus.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Barquiel wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Paragon favoritism, what else can be said?

Yes...the Cerberus railroading in ME2 was clearly Paragon favoritism. Why can't it be the STG/asari/council ( they recognized the reaper threat if you saved the Destiny Ascension) in ME2?

Cerberus has nothing to do with Renegades either... so that's irrelevant to the point. 

It's not like Renegades sent out an application to join Cerberus in ME1 and were rewarded in ME2.  You kill Cerberus lackies as a Renegade just like you do as a Paragon.

So yes, Paragon favoritism.

Golden Owl wrote...

If favortism is the argument here....then can I claim that renegades were favored in ME2? I certainly didn't want to work for Cerberus.

No, Cerberus is not the result, reward, or validation of a Renegade choice.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 08 juin 2011 - 12:41 .

[Seboist]

Dave666 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

3:50 - Asari Councilor:  The Council also owes you a great personal debt Commander, one we can never repay. You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers.

ME2: "Ah Yes, Reapers"

Thank you.  I was just about to search for that same video.

It really is amazing how much effort was put into railroading us into working with Cerberus.

First they killed Shepard, then immediately resurrected him/her.  Sure, it allowed for two years to pass but a coma or being missing in action could have covered that just as easilly without involving Cerberus at all.  It also allowed for a 'reset' but 'Data Corruption Detected' would have worked fine, it did in ME:1.

Next they changed the Council from believing Shepard about the Reaper threat to 'Ah yes, Reapers'.

Then they changed Cerberus from a small ex alliance covert operation gone rogue into a massively well funded organization that throws logo's on everything they touch and can apparently 'Cure Death'.

And they said BioWare railroaded people into working against Cerberus? Hah! 

...and thats not even counting the whole circular argument thing...

Why are we working for Cerberus?

Because the Council won't help us.

Why won't the Council help us?

Because we're working for Cerberus.

Ok, fine!  I'll go tell Cerberus where they can shove it!  Wait a minute!  Where's the option! Grrr....

The Council won't help because Shepard is working out in the Terminus Systems which is out of their jurdisdiction and they'd like to avoid conflict with them.

[Abispa]

Cerberus is not only amoral, it's stupid and careless. Even it's top operative was easily impressed with Shepard's well-run mission before s/he even got a ship. The only thing that made it worth "joining" in ME2 was the fact that the Council was stupid and inert. A collision between the Council and Cerberus will finally answer what happens when an irredeemable force meets an irrelevant object.

[Golden Owl]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

Golden Owl wrote...

If favortism is the argument here....then can I claim that renegades were favored in ME2? I certainly didn't want to work for Cerberus.

No, Cerberus is not the result, reward, or validation of a Renegade choice.

Though the fact still remains that paragons were still rail roaded into working for an organization many of them deeply dislike in ME2....whereas a large number of renegades were more than happy with that outcome and are now crying foul over ME3's return to fighting them status.

[Dave666]

Seboist wrote...

The Council won't help because Shepard is working out in the Terminus Systems which is out of their jurdisdiction and they'd like to avoid conflict with them.

Which leads us back to...

Barquiel wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

3:50 - Asari Councilor:  The Council also owes you a great personal debt Commander, one we can never repay. You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers.

ME2: "Ah Yes, Reapers"

If Bioware hadn't done a U-Turn on the Council believing that not only are the Reapers Real but that they are in fact on their way, can you imagine the scene?

Turuan Councilor: But it might start a war with the Terminus Systems.

Asari Councilor:  Are you serious?  The Reapers are coming and you're worried about a war with our Neighbours?

Salarian Councillor:  I concur.  Shepard, you'll need to do this quietly, but what do you need?  Give us a list of intel or resources and we'll see what we can do.

[Abispa]

It is possible that TIM and his Cerberus bone-heads could be suffering from a subtle form of indoctrination, similar to the kind Saren experienced. Such an effect could start off my twisting the organization's xenophobia and supremist tendencies in a way that makes their choices seem rational at first until they completely melt down.

I wonder if Shepard can sweet talk TIM into blowing him own brains out (thus causing Harbinger and the entire Reaper fleet to become vulnerable to an Alliance assault for some reason I still have trouble fathoming).

Damn, I hate how these long waits cause me to start nitpicking my favorite games.