316 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

It makes no sense that you get no aid from aliens because you save CB.

How would they find out.?  I doubt TIM will tell everyone about his secret data cache

Plus the public believes Shepard is working for Cerberus.

How does destroying the base equal aliens support you?

Admiral Hackett knew you left Cerberus in ME2 if you completed Arrival after the Suicide Mission. Why wouldn't he know about the base? The aliens also have their intelligence agencies, they could have found out too. 

Hackett doesn't say Shepard left Cerberus if the CB was saved.

[aeetos21]

How will other CIVs know about the CB decision? This speculation could go in a million different directions with what little information we have right now. However it is my opinion that keeping the base will have some adverse effects be it with other races or something else, just how I'm sure there will be some benefits to it as well.

Or think of it like this, in ME1 and ME2 you are preparing the galaxy for this big smackdown - sort of how you build a character in an RPG. If you choose slam instead of reave as a bonus power you miss out on great CC as well as armor and barrier busting but you gain instant warp bombs.

That's how ME3 is going to work in regards to the events in its predecessors. We don't know the cost/benefits yet but they'll be there for every major decision because that's how BW works. We'll only know the "optimal" playthrough when all is said and done but then that's always the case. Hindsight is 20/20.

I destroyed the base because I didn't trust Cerberus or TIM and decided that keeping it was too big a risk. You thought otherwise but if you think the only good thing about destroying it is that paragons would sleep easier at night...

There's this nice oceanfront property I'm seeling in Arizona...

[Spawnfreak73]

Maybe Cerberus has been Indoctrinated.

[raynbow]

i think indoctrination
i heard that word floating around in the conference vid

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Golden Owl wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

I don't recall that but I'd love to hear about it, what did Priestly say?

My sincere apologies Mr Gogeta, I wasn't paying a great deal of attention....There's a good chance I only noted it because a poster I respect was involved, I have a feeling it might be Seboist, ask him...He like you are good debators, no getting personal...speaking of which, thank you Mr Gogeta, I respect your opinions and have been enjoying this debate/disecting of the game with you.

Hey thanks Golden Owl.   I've heard strong arguements from you and others in this forum too.  I've also been enjoying our discussion of this and respect your opinions on this as well.

I'm being very vocal about this issue more-so to help (if possible) prevent it from being the case in all 3 games.  Bioware still has some time to add things in if they did it now.  It'd be a shame if the best outcome = always pick the blue button.  But all things are pointing toward that being the case again. 

To date there's been no distinctive reward/benefit or even positive validation for making a choice other than the Paragon one and I think that's really unfortunate.

[Essail]

I think we have to wait and see, but, it has to be a pretty good reason in my opinion.
To me it was a bit of a shock to find out we are now, out of the blue fighting Cerberus after all we did in Mass effect 2 also to me Cerberus isn't the evil type...they have and do bad things but they have a good reasons for their actions whether I agree with them or not, but they are in no way evil. Deciding to go against the Galaxy and fighting humanity and Shepard seems utterly illogical, out the blue and silly. So, like I said, we have to wait and see... all we are doing here is making wild accusations and insulting one another.
Indoctrination is too cheap... Cerberus are already aware of that and indoctrinating the hierarchy seems odd, as they aren't on the field doing the research or messing with the tech.
I could very easily see how Cerberus is split and too me that is the most viable option at this time.

I gave Cerberus their one chance in Mass Effect 2 as everyone else let me down and they pulled through for me, but if they also turn their back on me like the Citadel and Alliance (after my devotion to them during Mass effect 1)... I'm going to be one unhappy bunny and they will pay.

[Moiaussi]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Admiral Hackett knew you left Cerberus in ME2 if you completed Arrival after the Suicide Mission. Why wouldn't he know about the base? The aliens also have their intelligence agencies, they could have found out too. 

I remember Miranda resigning, but I don't remember Shepard saying anything about no longer working with Cerberus. He says something to suggest he isn't taking orders blindly anymore, but that doesn't equate to not working with Cerberus.

As for the base, if the Council doesn't believe in the Reapers after Sovereign showed up, why would they believe in a base that they never actually saw and is now no longer there to see?

Kirahee's team was on Vermire too and presumably presented a report, but that didn't sway the Council's opinion. It was even their advice to use the nuke, but Shepard took the full blame.

[Casper DM]

To be honest if there were a playstyle that is neglected in the Mass Effect games its those who wished to be neutral/paragade because your conversation options were influenced by your paragon/renegade rating rather than a persuasion ability meaning you couldn't have the loyalty of everyone among other things.

As far as I know Admiral Hackett wouldn't say anything about the CB or Shepard being a part of Cerberus as Arrival can be completed any time after Horizon which means you might not have even visited the CB.

Also something to think about with the CB decision, if Cerberus side with the reapers do you not think they are going to receive reaper tech anyway? Holding out on them isn't going to make much of a difference at their end however saving the base leaves the possibility open that you will benefit.

[Ausstig]

I saw some pics of a person in a cerberus uniform talking to a geth (legion?) and shep was in his cerberus casual uniform when speaking with an alien during the e3 demo.

So maybe things are not what they appear

[Rekkampum]

Barquiel wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

Did you forget that the Council dismissed the Reaper threat in ME2 due to a lack of evidence proving Sovereign was a reaper and not a geth invention? 

3:50 - Asari Councilor:  The Council also owes you a great personal debt Commander, one we can never repay. You saved not just our lives but the lives of billions from Sovereign and the Reapers.

ME2: "Ah Yes, Reapers"

Blame that mistake on Bioware's incontinuity. Again, they dismiss it in ME2, regardless of what they believed in ME1. You kind of cherry picked the rest of the Turian Councilor's statement.

EDIT: Can we also note that the quote you cite in ME1 was made before the Council had the chance to view a report regarding the battle that had just transpired? 

Modifié par Rekkampum, 10 juin 2011 - 05:51 .

[Rekkampum]

jbblue05 wrote...

Rekkampum wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

I am really annoyed by Bioware for what they did to Cerberus .
They are over-mailking " Cerberus are evilz" card way too much

Why does it have to be Cerberus that 180 on the Reaper threat.

Why can't it be STG, turian, or Asari commanos that are trying to take out Shepard.and Cerberus got your back.
Pro-human groups= BAD  Bending over for aliens= GOOD

Paragons are being heavily favored.evrything they touch turns the gold while everything Renegades touches turns to flames

Not true. I'm a Renegade and I don't like Cerberus for pragmatic reasons. And you've seriously misconstrued why Paragons dislike Cerberus, which probably has more to do with their willing sacrifice of fellow human beings in sick - and usually failed- experiments, and less to do with a Pro human attitude.

I'm misconstrued?
Cerberus are evil is the most common argument by a vast margin.

Why is that argument made? Because of their questionable ethical history, not simply because of some knee-jerk moral reactions. It would be one thing to say a person is evil without any examples to provide in supporting that statement. However, there are plenty of those in Cerberus' case. Whether or not one distinguishes the context in which these actions were made as for the best is the primary crux behind those who scorn and those who defend Cerberus' philosophy.

Modifié par Rekkampum, 10 juin 2011 - 05:51 .

[Slurms McKenzie]

My Theory:

The Illusive man got high, went on a bender that can only be described as a voyage to tripout city and decided to turn on Shepard for the hell of it. Then he just sort of wandered off somewhere............................................................................

Good Luck and Stay Safe

[Inverness Moon]

Personally I think BioWare is setting up this context about Cerberus only to surprise us at the end. BioWare should know that suddenly making Cerberus the enemies again, or using indoctrination as an explanation, would be terrible writing. It's obvious to anyone who actually cares about the quality of the game's writing that the Illusive Man has bigger cuttlefish to fry, and that going against Shepard isn't a good idea for humanity.

[Moiaussi]

They are sort of idiot savants when it comes to writing. Some of their writing is just amazing, but they keep tossing the idiot ball around from character to character inbetween the good momments. It is almost like the writers are doing the same themselves.

They changed writers though for ME2, didn't they?

[tywinsregards]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Personally I think BioWare is setting up this context about Cerberus only to surprise us at the end. BioWare should know that suddenly making Cerberus the enemies again, or using indoctrination as an explanation, would be terrible writing. It's obvious to anyone who actually cares about the quality of the game's writing that the Illusive Man has bigger cuttlefish to fry, and that going against Shepard isn't a good idea for humanity.

Agreed. Either Cerberus is trying to kill TIM too or bioware honestly has some serious issues because the indoctrination leg pull is something anyone could see coming but the second explaination is even worse. You're gona risk the fate of the galaxy because you're mad shep took the damn ship?!?! Give me a break.

[Bailyn242]

Why is indoctrination such a crutch? We certainly were told that Indoctrined helped the Reapers wipe out the Protheans. Wouldn't this story feel pretty off if there were no groups of indoctrinated working with some subtlety? I mean, "urrr, I'm a drooling indoctrinated would be pretty boring after all."

We are going to see segments of each population getting indoctrinated I suspect since Mordin mentions something about them in the Surkesh demo. Was he talking about Cerberus (who Shepard was fighting in the Demo) or was he talking about Salarians within the government and STG?

Cerberus wasn't that big in ME2 and they were digging into and playing with a lot of Reaper tech. It doesn't feel forced that they would eventually get indoctrinated, the organization is small enough and Vigil talks about the indoctrinated spreading during the Prothean extinction.

[Hoki]

Cerberus may not be an enemy for Renegade Shepard, is what I'm thinking.

Otherwise, I imagine you make enemies with Cerberus by *betraying* them as Paragon, they accuse you of being traitors, they attack you.

Or if you give them the reaper station, they start doing some horribly ****ed up **** and you become enemies.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

Cerberus has to be the enemy for both Shepards mainly because Cerberus being the endemy is probably going to be a lage part of the story and having to remove them and place someone else in their role would be way too time consuming and might even effect the plot of the game.

Cerberus will be the enemy no matter what you did with that base.

[tywinsregards]

Bailyn242 wrote...

Why is indoctrination such a crutch? We certainly were told that Indoctrined helped the Reapers wipe out the Protheans. Wouldn't this story feel pretty off if there were no groups of indoctrinated working with some subtlety? I mean, "urrr, I'm a drooling indoctrinated would be pretty boring after all."

We are going to see segments of each population getting indoctrinated I suspect since Mordin mentions something about them in the Surkesh demo. Was he talking about Cerberus (who Shepard was fighting in the Demo) or was he talking about Salarians within the government and STG?

Cerberus wasn't that big in ME2 and they were digging into and playing with a lot of Reaper tech. It doesn't feel forced that they would eventually get indoctrinated, the organization is small enough and Vigil talks about the indoctrinated spreading during the Prothean extinction.

Im not saying that its a crutch I understand its relevance to the story and thats a good point about exactly who shep was talking about. All im saying is that if there going to indoctrinate Cerberus at least give us some type of wiggle room. I can see parts of Cerberus indoctrinated but I doubt after the events in Retribution that TIM would leave his base anytime soon so not all of them could possibly be indoctrinated.

Modifié par lgeass88, 12 juin 2011 - 12:56 .

[Moiaussi]

Some sort of counter to indoctrination is pretty much essential to winning this anyway, so we might have an opportunity to bring Cerberus in from the cold. Think of the plausable deniability it would given them?

[Platform626]

Well TIM was in contact with a Reaper artifact if anyone read up on that comic. So dormant indoctrination I would say. Also explains his creepy ass eyes.

[Bailyn242]

Platform626 wrote...

Well TIM was in contact with a Reaper artifact if anyone read up on that comic. So dormant indoctrination I would say. Also explains his creepy ass eyes.

If it was dormant before, being on the same base as a Reaper Avatar could have reawakened it... shrug. 

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Given the events at Arrival, Indoctrination could be there and not turned on until the last minute... it's all possible...