316 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Amakiir wrote...

The Reapers intend to upload humanity into an immortal machine construct. Does an immortal, all powerful humanity not fit with the goals of cerberus?

No, it doesn't.

How do you know that? TIMmy openly admits that his true plans for humanity are something he doesn't share with anyone, certanly not Shepard.

[bigSarg]

Personally I've never trusted TIM, and I think that TIM uses his resources until he no longer needs them and then discards them or they become to much of a liablility. I personally always blow up the base at the end just to throw my middle finger in TIM's face. I don't recall Miranda ever saying that she resigned from Cerberus, but I might have missed it. I always expected TIM to betray Shep. Maybe the Reapers made TIM an offer he couldn't refuse, like sparing Cerberus from annihilation or something. I'm not even convinced that TIM is even Human, there are dialogue parts with TIM and Shep that leads me to believe that he doesn't count himself among humanity, if that is the case then it may be possible that once the Reapers invade they could take control of TIM, no where does it say who or what TIM really is or is there any history about him. The Reapers are not organic so from what I understand they are kind of an advanced Geth and the Reapers are able to control the collectors so why couldn't they do the same to TIM.

*Edit* and one more thing-If you recall Harbinger considers what they are doing as a benefit to humanity, I think he called it ascention or evolution or something like that, maybe Harbinger was able to convince TIM that what they are doing is a benefit to Humanity and that Shep is the real problem and for Humanity to reach their ultimate evolution Shep has to be removed, if TIM is pro Humanity and approves of anything that advances Humanity he might be convinced, remember Miranda mentions that Cerberus fully endorces ANYTHING that advances humanity.

Modifié par bigSarg, 05 juin 2011 - 12:53 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

laecraft wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

a deal to spare the earth (or atleast buy time) in exchange for hunting Shepard is something I could see TIM doing

Maybe. It's a slippery line, though. I can't see the Reapers actually promising to spare the Earth. But if they do, and if this deal can actually be secured, why won't Shepard just surrender himself? Some Shepards do care about the Earth that much. And if this deal can't be secured, why agree to it at all?

So maybe buy time? But in this case, what's to prevent TIM from "hunting" Shepard for years? What if the Reapers get impatient, or decide that TIM is not trying hard enough? And worse yet, what if he accidently kills Shepard too soon? Then they won't need TIM anymore, and would just take the Earth. He'd have to try and balance the forces so that they're neither too strong nor too weak, and that would be hard for him to pull off in reality - something always happens. Someone will just go and kill Shepard, and what then?

And why would the Reapers offer TIM such a deal? A few months of time aren't going to make a difference, unless he's going to use those months to destroy them - and they know it. How would he explain his reasons for agreeing to this, save for admitting that he's plotting something against them - and in this case, why should they trust him to try properly to kill Shepard?

Good questions and I have no idea, lol.  But if it's a desperate situation, any additional time is better than none, especially if Cerberus is serious about saving humanity.

[Moiaussi]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Amakiir wrote...

The Reapers intend to upload humanity into an immortal machine construct. Does an immortal, all powerful humanity not fit with the goals of cerberus?

No, it doesn't.

It is completely compatable with the super soldier program we saw in ME1, where they were studying Rachni and Thorian DNA and injecting Alliance soldiers with thresher maw acid as part of an attempt to build better soldiers for the Alliance.

That was a Cerberus operation, and our 'first contact' with Cerberus.

[eye basher]

in the absense of good sometimes evil most be fought with another kind of evil.

[TomY90]

eye basher wrote...

in the absense of good sometimes evil most be fought with another kind of evil.

no offence that sounded like Cartman / the ******.

back to the topic I simply think that cerberus has a weapon to bring down the reapers but they want shepherd dead so that they can take the credit for it and get the respect of the galaxy and the council and become the strongest force in the galaxy.

[Bryzon]

My guess would be that once Shepard saved the universe a second time, Cerberus feels that he owes them his life and should continue working for them. It also could be that Shepard is disclosing Cerberus secrets to the Alliance and they're trying to keep him quiet.

[khordlambert]

eye basher wrote...

in the absense of good sometimes evil most be fought with another kind of evil.

Except there is no abscence of good. Especially if you are playing a Paragon Shep. Even then you still have Anderson.

[kaiki01]

eye basher wrote...

in the absense of good sometimes evil most be fought with another kind of evil.

That makes no sense at all. Maybe if you are fighting Necromongers. Other then that, no sense can be derived from that statement.

[Quole]

Cerberus was always an enemy.

[DoNotIngest]

Quole wrote...

Cerberus was always an enemy.

Indeed. The only reason grenades weren't included in ME2 was so we couldn't give one to a certain someone to throw into the engine.

[Abispa]

Heck, I'm still wondering how an ultra-secret black ops organization no one had ever heard of in ME1 became this well-known, tolerated, human-centric organization that can park it's illegal copy of a top secret Alliance vessel with Cerberus markings on the Citadel, Illium, and Omega. What little aliens supposedly know of Cerberus should lead them to believe that Cerberus are terrorists, yet no one on the Citadel, Omega or Illium bat an eyelash when seeing armed humans in Cerberus uniforms walking around.

Modifié par Abispa, 05 juin 2011 - 11:57 .

[Bloodleash]

 "Cerberus is a human-survivalist paramilitary group led by the enigmatic Illusive Man. Cerberus' core belief is that humans deserve a greater role in the galactic community, and that the Systems Alliance is too hamstrung by law and public opinion to stand up effectively to the Citadel races. Any methods of advancing humanity's ascension are justified, including illegal or dangerous experimentation, terrorist activities, sabotage and assassination. Cerberus operatives accept that these methods are brutal, but believe history will vindicate them. Nevertheless, both the Systems Alliance and the Citadel Council have declared Cerberus to be a terrorist organization and will prosecute identified Cerberus agents accordingly."


http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Cerberus


The galaxy hates Cerberus, with the exception of their private funders and ( Possibly ) Terra Firma. 
Possibly the control chip idea Miranda wanted initally?
ME2 Paragon ending, destroying the base?
ME2 Rengade, Cerberus betrayal of Shepard after getting the technology they wanted?

Imo it's probably just Cerberus living up to the expectations of betraying Shepard and turning on him.

Modifié par Bloodleash, 06 juin 2011 - 12:01 .

[Someone With Mass]

They wanted more blood for the blood gods, it seems.

[Joshua N7]

Rumor is that somehow their working for the Reapers now. Can I confirm that? No. But who knows. It might make more sense when we actually play it.

[Abispa]

Of course, since the war with the reapers has begun, it is likely that the bulk of their army will be made up of heretic geth, Collectors and husks. Therefor, the only option Bioware had to give you enemies who will constantly yell out, "Enemies are everywhere!" was to have Cerberus betray you.

[1upD]

Abispa wrote...

Of course, since the war with the reapers has begun, it is likely that the bulk of their army will be made up of heretic geth, Collectors and husks. Therefor, the only option Bioware had to give you enemies who will constantly yell out, "Enemies are everywhere!" was to have Cerberus betray you.

This.

I feel like if they needed a humanoid enemy capable of firing conventional weapons, they could have come up with something better than Cerberus. Still, I'm sure the story will justify it.

Modifié par 1upD, 06 juin 2011 - 02:05 .

[Quole]

Cerberus was always an enemy, the same way protoss was always OP.

[Eshaye]

Abispa wrote...

Heck, I'm still wondering how an ultra-secret black ops organization no one had ever heard of in ME1 became this well-known, tolerated, human-centric organization that can park it's illegal copy of a top secret Alliance vessel with Cerberus markings on the Citadel, Illium, and Omega. What little aliens supposedly know of Cerberus should lead them to believe that Cerberus are terrorists, yet no one on the Citadel, Omega or Illium bat an eyelash when seeing armed humans in Cerberus uniforms walking around.

Oh too true, too true...   

1upD wrote...

Abispa wrote...

Of course, since the war with the reapers has begun, it is likely that the bulk of their army will be made up of heretic geth, Collectors and husks. Therefor, the only option Bioware had to give you enemies who will constantly yell out, "Enemies are everywhere!" was to have Cerberus betray you.

This.

I feel like if they needed a humanoid enemy capable of firing conventional weapons, they could have come up with something better than Cerberus. Still, I'm sure the story will justify it.

I've just finished the Evolution comic from Dark Horse digital and if that goes into ME3 it's ALL going to make a whole lot of sense. But whether the fans will be happy with the outcome is another story. My first reaction was to /facepalm... 

Modifié par Eshaye, 06 juin 2011 - 04:35 .

[ME-ParaShep]

Here's the reason why Cerberus would hate ME personally. AHEM, let me put on my Paragon real quick:

1) I denied TIM the Collector Base because he's probably going to use it for evil intentions. Think about it, why would anybody want to use technology that's so sickening? Liquefying a civilization to create Reapers is a bad thing. I always believed that TIM was in league with the Reapers because of his accursed eyes and perilous actions. His words do not correspond with what he does. E.G. He insistently sent a false message that he created a message about a Turian scouting party temporarily disabling the Collectors. Also how did he find out that the Collector ship ordeal was a trap in the 1st place? All of his actions prove that he's not there to support humanity.. He's in league with the Reapers and his response to Shepard disregarding the Collector Base proves it.

2) I convinced Miranda and Jacob that being on my side proves very worthwhile *proof* Miranda "handed in her resignation" when she was present while TIM was being a ***** to me when I decided to blow up the Collector Base

3) I always doubted him and never did trust him at all. That lack of trust in such situations would lead to serious conflicts.

4) I verbally shut him down when I last talked to him after destroying the Collector Base.

5) Why is Cerberus attacking Shepard when the Reapers are attacking Earth? The most logical reason is that TIM is in league with the Reapers.. The Reapers are too huge of a threat to the galaxy and if Cerberus is deciding to attack Shepard and thus impede the protection of the universe, they are helping the Reapers achieve victory. Thus, it makes sense that Cerberus would also go against Shepard even if you saved the Collector Base and gave it to TIM. Cerberus wouldn't need Shepard anymore since they have advanced technology. Shepard is a loose end to them and TIM is most likely indoctrinated by the Reapers a similar way as to how Kenson from the Arrival DLC was indoctrinated, but TIM is smarter and more cunning than her so he's a major threat that needs to be destroyed.

*Lastly.. Those EYES that TIM has.. They aren't human or any other species that we know so well to be friendly.. TIM must have been implanted with Reaper tech and originally have been prompted by the Reapers to try and either subtly convince Shepard that doing what Cerberus does is helping humanity, but actually is helping the Reapers (which is the true motive) or, if else fails, destroy Commander Shepard. I don't have stronger evidence as to why Cerberus is after Shepard.

[Seboist]

Quole wrote...

Cerberus was always an enemy, the same way protoss was always OP.

No they weren't. They were an optional minor opponent that showed up on two worlds in ME1 and were an ally in ME2.

[Jorina Leto]

Yeti13 wrote...

most likely, it's because Cerberus are idiots and keep reaper artifacts in their desks

This.

[lovgreno]

Seboist wrote...

Quole wrote...

Cerberus was always an enemy, the same way protoss was always OP.

No they weren't. They were an optional minor opponent that showed up on two worlds in ME1 and were an ally in ME2.

TIMmy, Miranda and Jacob all tell Shepard that he/she can not expect anything from Failberus. This is confirmed when Cerberus have the Normandy bugged and withold important information from Shepard. There is a very small step from this backstabbing in ME2 to open hostility in ME3. I think most of us saw it coming realy.