215 réponses à ce sujet

[efrgfhnm_]

Vanguards have their owns unique ability, which is meant to be the one that defines the class, as well as having other decent biotic abiltities. They are good just as they are, if all the classes get extra abilities, then another biotic one for vanguards I suppose, but it is unneeded when all the abilities are going to get more varied upgrades. So no, they shouldn't

[marshalleck]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

*Yawn* make a decent argument or just stop posting.

Vanguards are fine.

[CajNatalie]

"Make a decent argument or stop posting"?

I call hypocrisy.
Weiser_Cain... your argument was that you missed...
Solution - Don't Miss

If you're having that much trouble...
You can use tactical pause to fix your aim after charging (hell, if you're smart you should often tactical pause anyway after a charge to assess your situation).
Don't 'zoom' since you're already point blank... zooming is only designed for ranged shots.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 04 juin 2011 - 08:18 .

[magnuskn]

CajNatalie wrote...

You're doing it wrong if all you're doing is charging.
Doing
It
Wrong

Shockwave and Pull. Hello?!
Plus the option to add an extra bonus... like Slam, Stasis, Reave, Dominate, or Barrier.

But I love charging! 

Seriously, Pull also is totally fine. Shockwave is superfluous and it sucks that you need to put points into it to get Pull.

[CajNatalie]

I also love Charging, and I do it whenever I can... but there are other powers there for a reason and have plenty of utility.
If you're not using them then you're not using your Vanguard to their fullest potential.

I disagree about how you feel about Shockwave, and find it disappointing that so few people give it a chance despite its potential. Honestly, on my Vanguard I maxed that out to Improved and only had level 1 Pull.
I've argued a lot on this forum about how I prefer Shockwave over Pull... I frickin' love Shockwave.
It's 1000 times better than Throw.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 04 juin 2011 - 08:45 .

[marshalleck]

Depends on what difficulty you normally play on. If you're on hardcore or insanity, you're better off just maxing assault mastery, charge, and incendiary rounds. Then put whatever you have left into the highly situational abilities pull and shockwave. I've always ignored cryo ammo no matter what difficulty I'm playing.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Yeah they and Biotics should have more powers. They should have all the ones they could do in ME, ME2, and get brand new ones for ME3. The players can in sheps personnel menu asign the powers they want their sheps to use so say shep can only in battle use up to 6 powers they decide from all the powers what 6 they want shep to use and can change them however many times they want throughout 3.

[Dave666]

Vangards don't need more Biotic abilities, what they need is Combat abilities. Ammo Powers just don't cut it.

*Edited for spelling derpery*

Also to add. 

As much as some people complained about ME:1's cobat system, it was a hundred times more balanced than ME:2's when it came to classes.

The Vangard in ME:1:

Assault Training (Combat)
Pistols (Combat)
Shotguns (Combat)
Tactical Armour (Combat)
Barrier (Biotic)
Lift (Biotic)
Throw (Biotic)
Warp (Biotic)

The Vangard in ME:2:

Charge (Hybrid of Combat and Biotic)
Pull (Biotic)
Shockwave (Biotic)
Cryo Ammo (Ammo "Power")
Incendiary Ammo (Ammo "Power")

Where's the two Combat abilities?

Modifié par Dave666, 04 juin 2011 - 09:23 .

[ramnozack]

CajNatalie wrote...

You're doing it wrong if all you're doing is charging.
Doing
It
Wrong

Shockwave and Pull. Hello?!
Plus the option to add an extra bonus... like Slam, Stasis, Reave, Dominate, or Barrier.

I'v posted in many other topics that i like to use all my biotics (pull shockwave reave charge) but in ME 2 espcially on insanity you can go the whole game charging everything. I never said i always use charge im saying that charge is basically the best biotic ability you can use in almost every situation. Biotics would be a ton better for every class if they added more variety in biotic abilities and put the classes main ability on a seperate CD. That way after i can reave a group to stun them charge in and take them out but since reave can't  CC a whole room like ME 1 singularity it won't be overpowered. If they added this you would be able to use all of your powers instead of just charge,

[ramnozack]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I'm not sure they need more biotic powers. If they have too many why play an adept?

Indeed; Vanguards already have 3 biotic powers - they need combat powers, they have none - only ammo which is equipment not a 'power'.

Adept will always have a ton more biotics then vanguard and will be able to use them far more often aswell.That said
Vanguard is a Solider/Adept hybrid. NOT just a solider with charge. Pull is kinda useless other then for setting up warp bombs with miri or thane. Shockwave is good on Veteran and below but could still use more damage but uselss on hardcore+ i mean its a line of biotic EXPLOSIONS yet it does less damage then a single shot from a SMG. Vanguards need atleast ONE direct damage ranged attack ( i would want warp). Also the only "combat abilities" in ME2 are AR and con shot. I would prefer to have another biotic over Con shot....maybe throw?

[magnuskn]

I also could live with less ammo types and more powers, be they now soldier-y or biotic.

I guess I'll have to ask, why would one prefer Shockwave over Pull?

[ramnozack]

magnuskn wrote...

I also could live with less ammo types and more powers, be they now soldier-y or biotic.

I guess I'll have to ask, why would one prefer Shockwave over Pull?

because lvl1 pull is really all u need. this is my current vanguard build

Inferno Ammo
Heavy Charge
Improved Shockwave
Pull (1 point)
Area Reave
Destroyer (for Vet and below)/Champion(on hardcore+ to make up for power duration penalty)

Pull is only useful for warp bombs. why pull your target to YOU when u can charge over and knock the **** outta him and get barrier back.

Modifié par ramnozack, 04 juin 2011 - 09:28 .

[LuxDragon]

Nah. What they need is more weapon abilities. Like a sniper rifle. They shoot, then they charge the distance to see if they go faster than bullets.

[ramnozack]

Dave666 wrote...

Vangards don't need more Biotic abilities, what they need is Combat abilities. Ammo Powers just don't cut it.

*Edited for spelling derpery*

Also to add. 

As much as some people complained about ME:1's cobat system, it was a hundred times more balanced than ME:2's when it came to classes.

The Vangard in ME:1:

Assault Training (Combat)
Pistols (Combat)
Shotguns (Combat)
Tactical Armour (Combat)
Barrier (Biotic)
Lift (Biotic)
Throw (Biotic)
Warp (Biotic)

The Vangard in ME:2:

Charge (Hybrid of Combat and Biotic)
Pull (Biotic)
Shockwave (Biotic)
Cryo Ammo (Ammo "Power")
Incendiary Ammo (Ammo "Power")

Where's the two Combat abilities?

Well since most of the "combat abilities" in ME 1 were weap skills then being able to use shotgun smg and pistol are your combat abilities

But since we are stuck with ammo powers in ME 3 Con shot might be nice. Just wish they'd switch incendary ammo with warp ammo just makes more sense for a vanguard. Imagine Con blast + warp ammo = Warp Explosion?

Modifié par ramnozack, 04 juin 2011 - 09:37 .

[marshalleck]

Concussion shot sucks. All it would add to the class is a cooldown period where charge isn't available for instant shield regen, which is the real source of the vanguard's strength. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 04 juin 2011 - 11:15 .

[CajNatalie]

magnuskn wrote...

I also could live with less ammo types and more powers, be they now soldier-y or biotic.

I guess I'll have to ask, why would one prefer Shockwave over Pull?

Leveling Pull up only increases its duration.
No use to me since I can pick floaters off easy (they take double damage while flailing around in the air).
This Warp Bomb stuff is bull... if someone has warp available, and the floater is surrounded by enemies or there's nothing much else around that will need warping soon, then sure, bombs away for the Area of Effect, but the idea is that you Pull someone to get a clear shot with double damage - no need to waste a warp on one helpless mook. Falling back to the 'warp bomb everything' idea is a common mistake.
Eventually you can spend 10 points for Pull Field. This is very nice, as it can mean you pick 2, or if you're lucky, 3 enemies up... but on Insanity this will rarely happen and you'll just stagger the guy next to the floater.
I saw no need to get Pull Field because of this, and stuck to Level 1 Pull purely for ripping mooks out of cover and gunning them in the ass/face while they flail with a quick shot from the Needler (I don't use the Mattock; different story; don't ask).

With Shockwave upgraded to Improved, not only do you have the ultimate Husk exterminater, you have a viable way of hitting every single enemy on the field at once in any difficulty. The casting animation may be a little long, but that can be overcome by finding some tall cover, not sticking to it, and sidestepping to hit the cast and then quickly hiding while you're swinging your arm... the Shockwave will emerge from where you started casting and you were only exposed for a tiny split second. On Insanity by doing this I could keep my shields safe.
On Hardcore/Insanity, you may be saying 'but they only stagger!' ...yeah, but (usually) EVERY SINGLE ENEMY is staggering (much better than that one maybe two staggering enemies next to the guy you just used Pull Field on). Suddenly nobody's shooting your way, and they're all out of cover, perfect for you to co-ordinate teammate powers and shred the enemy of your choice (I found it useful in Object Rho for keeping one or two of the pyros steady so I could blow their shields out and pop their tanks, while their buddies were reeling and unable to provide cover fire).
Staggerfail may be disappointing, but when everybody staggerfails, it's not fail anymore.
...also, it goes without saying that everyone you blew the protections off of will go flying when you use Improved Shockwave... every one of them.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 04 juin 2011 - 11:24 .

[Clonedzero]

marshalleck wrote...

Weiser_Cain wrote...

*Yawn* make a decent argument or just stop posting.

Vanguards are fine.

no one was saying they werent powerful, also thats a HORRIBLE example... like the worst ive seen. yaeh abusing the things lack of short range capability to prove a point? i dont understand? wtf are you trying to say with that? that "boss" was not designed to be fought at point blank range. its not hard to do that with any class provided you can get that close, the vanguard can just do it easier.

[thetruefreemo]

I wanted warp and throw (with the old sound effect or something that sounds cooler). Pull didn't do anything for me and shockwave I only used on mechs and husks. Barrier would have been nice to not be a bonus. I have this bad habit of dying you see?

[KainrycKarr]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

*Yawn* make a decent argument or just stop posting.

How do you miss with a shotgun?

[KainrycKarr]

Give me throw back, and I'll be happy.

[Someone With Mass]

More class exclusive powers would be great too.

[marshalleck]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Give me throw back, and I'll be happy.

Well, at least make it a bonus power so those who want it can use it and other vanguards don't have to be saddled with a useless ability that moves enemies out of ideal range. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 05 juin 2011 - 01:03 .

[Legbiter]

No.

[PrinceLionheart]

Shockwave sucks, so I say yes, Vanguard should have other useful abilities.

[Weiser_Cain]

CajNatalie wrote...

"Make a decent argument or stop posting"?

I call hypocrisy.
Weiser_Cain... your argument was that you missed...
Solution - Don't Miss

If you're having that much trouble...
You can use tactical pause to fix your aim after charging (hell, if you're smart you should often tactical pause anyway after a charge to assess your situation).
Don't 'zoom' since you're already point blank... zooming is only designed for ranged shots.

No, my argument is that when you miss you have no other tricks up your sleeve. Specifically no biotic tricks, which is lame and wastes half your class description. It's kind of the point of this topic.