215 réponses à ce sujet

[CajNatalie]

ramnozack wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

This isn't about 'right' or 'wrong' - it's about a design decision. BW chose a class system which means every class should have their own specific strengths and weaknesses. It's also about forcing or at least encouraging players to use the powers available to them. Your argument about Warp and Throw is exactly like saying the Adept would be nice with Charge and the Claymore. Both 'options' destroy the class system. It can't be done whilst keeping different classes.

I also recommend to check the strategy section b/c Vanguards have no problems dealing with 4-5 closely packed enemies (who are a very rare sight in ME2 btw). Inferno Ammo works through defenses and will have all nearby enemies do the fire-dance; or use your squadmates' powers and Pull/Shockwave to give you an edge (both Warp and Throw don't make any difference).

Can you explain why you want Warp if you're going to use it to strip defenses? Warp is single target, Reave has an AoE version which is superior when it comes to defense-stripping. Why do you want Throw? You can knock enemies down (or off the map if you use Pull first), just like Throw does, and SW has a much larger AoE. You can also use Slam bonus power if you prefer a quick CC power.

Everything you want from your Vanguard is already possible in ME2; why ruin the entire class system for powers which are close to redundant on a Vanguard anyway?

First off THIS THREAD is about ME 3 not ME 2 second i never said 4-5 enemies had to be right next to each other
third i want warp because reave might not be in ME 3 and throw because it just makes sense. Christina already confirmed atleast 1 new power for each class im suggesting some. You have some problem that u cant get ME 2 out of your head and think about ME 3. More evolutions and more new powers will let the Adept keep its uniqueness read my earlier posts for details about it.

As far as we're lead to believe, Mass Effect 2 was extremely close to what BW wanted, so it's totally unlikely they'll do another DELETE EVERYTHING AND START OVER like they did from ME1->ME2... classes may just be balanced and set up the same in ME3 as in ME2... just with some additional icing on top. You can't just say ME3 SO NYUH... we're using ME2 as a basis here for good reasons.

If they are, to much shock and surprise, NOT like in ME2 and they do end up deleting everything and starting over with classes, then what the hell is the point of all this?!
None of us can have a clue what will come out of the final product.

But once again, Christina has stated that Vanguards will retain themselves, so oh hey... probability of starting over is less than 1%.

Edit: That Gentlemen's Guide made me lol.
I don't agree with it beyond being a Charge guide, but that doesn't matter because it's funny. XD

Modifié par CajNatalie, 05 juin 2011 - 05:47 .

[Leonia]

I'd like that new power that Christina promised to be a non-biotic skill, preferably a really useful melee attack (and we know each class is getting a souped up melee attack anyway). There's my contribution. Also, so glad someone pulled out the Gentleman's guide.

Modifié par leonia42, 05 juin 2011 - 05:49 .

[Pedro Costa]

ramnozack wrote...
Again Christina said all classes get atleast 1 new power so im suggesting a few. 

SO, you're suggesting Warp which affects armor and barriers the same way a shotgun does or a heavy pistol does or inferno ammo does and throw, which shockwave and charge both do in unarmored enemies, effectively suggesting powers that are redundant to the class since the class already has both situations covered.
A real suggestion would be, again, something to help deal with shields.

also darklord funny picture but it aint my playstyle

Then yes, I'm afraid you're doing it wrong. Your class's signature power is its signature power for a reason: it's suppose to be your bread and butter.

If you don't *want* to play a Vanguard like that, again we say, play another class, because whatever your playing style is, it most certainly isn't the one this class was made for.

[ramnozack]

lazuli wrote...

ramnozack wrote...
 i want warp because reave might not be in ME 3 and throw because it just makes sense.

I don't see how it "just makes sense."  Vanguards can already push things over with Charge.

It has been confirmed that class builds will remain more or less the same.  We'll start in ME3 with a power level around where we left off in ME2, for instance.  I don't know if this means that the ME3 builds will look like ME2 build + new power(s), though.  Regardless, you're ignoring the Adept-Sentinel-Vanguard dynamic that Caj brought up:

Adept: Pull, Shockwave, Warp, Throw
Sentinel: Warp, Throw
Vanguard: Pull, Shockwave

They never said they would be the same same powers from ME 2 yeah but all classes get atleast 1 new power. I dont know which ones so we gotta wait till ME 3. And throw just makes sense lore wise because how can a vanguard create a line of biotic explosions but not simply throw someone? Not to mention the evolutions could be diff for every class but idk im just giving ideas.  My ideas could or could not happen i dont know why every1 is taking this so seriously its not like i call the shots in the gameplay design for ME 3. I also think its likely new biotic abilities will be created and given to adept and adept will get evolutions for their biotics which are more powerful then evolutions for sentinel and vanguard


PS: TOP HAT AND MOUSTACHE FOR HELMET OPTION IN ME 3 NAO

Modifié par ramnozack, 05 juin 2011 - 05:52 .

[Leonia]

How is warp a "new power" exactly? Let's try thinking OUTSIDE the box. Since, you know, we're only supposed to be talking ME3 hypotheticals and all. Why do we keep coming back to warp?

[ramnozack]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

ramnozack wrote...
Again Christina said all classes get atleast 1 new power so im suggesting a few. 

SO, you're suggesting Warp which affects armor and barriers the same way a shotgun does or a heavy pistol does or inferno ammo does and throw, which shockwave and charge both do in unarmored enemies, effectively suggesting powers that are redundant to the class since the class already has both situations covered.
A real suggestion would be, again, something to help deal with shields.

also darklord funny picture but it aint my playstyle

Then yes, I'm afraid you're doing it wrong. Your class's signature power is its signature power for a reason: it's suppose to be your bread and butter.

If you don't *want* to play a Vanguard like that, again we say, play another class, because whatever your playing style is, it most certainly isn't the one this class was made for.

That pic was meant to be funny and show how all vanguards do is charge i charge alot but its not all i do. Also stripping defenses from ranged so enemies can be easier to kill once you charge in is smart for me so yes i would like a ranged damage dealing biotic like warp doesn't have to be warp just something of that nature

[ramnozack]

leonia42 wrote...

How is warp a "new power" exactly? Let's try thinking OUTSIDE the box. Since, you know, we're only supposed to be talking ME3 hypotheticals and all. Why do we keep coming back to warp?

Its new for Vanguard cuz they didnt have it in ME 2 but a ranged damage dealin biotic is all i need

Modifié par ramnozack, 05 juin 2011 - 05:55 .

[Leonia]

But we're supposed to be coming up with new ideas not stealing from other classes. Come on, invent a new biotic power, how hard can it be.

[ramnozack]

CajNatalie wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

This isn't about 'right' or 'wrong' - it's about a design decision. BW chose a class system which means every class should have their own specific strengths and weaknesses. It's also about forcing or at least encouraging players to use the powers available to them. Your argument about Warp and Throw is exactly like saying the Adept would be nice with Charge and the Claymore. Both 'options' destroy the class system. It can't be done whilst keeping different classes.

I also recommend to check the strategy section b/c Vanguards have no problems dealing with 4-5 closely packed enemies (who are a very rare sight in ME2 btw). Inferno Ammo works through defenses and will have all nearby enemies do the fire-dance; or use your squadmates' powers and Pull/Shockwave to give you an edge (both Warp and Throw don't make any difference).

Can you explain why you want Warp if you're going to use it to strip defenses? Warp is single target, Reave has an AoE version which is superior when it comes to defense-stripping. Why do you want Throw? You can knock enemies down (or off the map if you use Pull first), just like Throw does, and SW has a much larger AoE. You can also use Slam bonus power if you prefer a quick CC power.

Everything you want from your Vanguard is already possible in ME2; why ruin the entire class system for powers which are close to redundant on a Vanguard anyway?

First off THIS THREAD is about ME 3 not ME 2 second i never said 4-5 enemies had to be right next to each other
third i want warp because reave might not be in ME 3 and throw because it just makes sense. Christina already confirmed atleast 1 new power for each class im suggesting some. You have some problem that u cant get ME 2 out of your head and think about ME 3. More evolutions and more new powers will let the Adept keep its uniqueness read my earlier posts for details about it.

As far as we're lead to believe, Mass Effect 2 was extremely close to what BW wanted, so it's totally unlikely they'll do another DELETE EVERYTHING AND START OVER like they did from ME1->ME2... classes may just be balanced and set up the same in ME3 as in ME2... just with some additional icing on top. You can't just say ME3 SO NYUH... we're using ME2 as a basis here for good reasons.

If they are, to much shock and surprise, NOT like in ME2 and they do end up deleting everything and starting over with classes, then what the hell is the point of all this?!
None of us can have a clue what will come out of the final product.

But once again, Christina has stated that Vanguards will retain themselves, so oh hey... probability of starting over is less than 1%.

Edit: That Gentlemen's Guide made me lol.
I don't agree with it beyond being a Charge guide, but that doesn't matter because it's funny. XD

never said anything about another start over like fro ME1-ME2 but ok........all i said was they were giving each class atleast 1 new power 1 new power =/= restart. also what would talkin about ME 2 now acomplish? it wont change anything thats why im talking about ME 3

Modifié par ramnozack, 05 juin 2011 - 06:02 .

[ramnozack]

leonia42 wrote...

But we're supposed to be coming up with new ideas not stealing from other classes. Come on, invent a new biotic power, how hard can it be.

Vanguard already had warp they just took it away from them dude. besides what ranged dmg dealing biotic would u suggest

[Pride Demon]

Uhm... An interesting question... Frankly I'm not sure...

For starters, since vanguard is a combat/biotic hybrid class, assuming the number of powers remains the same that would mean losing a combat power (I personally would do away with cryo ammo, never found it very useful, but that's just my opinion)...

Furthermore, there's the problem of giving the vanguard another power while keeping the in-your-face/ high risk high reward/ bring disarray on the enemy lines fighting style typical for the class, all the biotic powers serve this purposes in a vanguard and I'm unsure that can be mantained with the powers we have...

*this is for the run-of-the-mill vanguard I imagine, different playstyles could negate all I write here*
- Singularity: can't be added since it is the signature move of another class (besides it would contradict the lore, vanguard and adept use different implants for their powers, so charge and singularity are mutually esclusive);
- Throw: the vanguard goes up close usually (or mid range at least) and throw sends the enemies further away, it just doesn't mix;
- Warp: this one could go, since vanguard already has pull, besides vanguards had Warp in ME1, but the class has been remodeled in ME2 and now setting AND detonating warp bombs is sideline support, while a vanguard is... well, a vanguard... Still, if used on its own it could cover the vanguard lack of long ranged attacks, whether this ruins the class flavour is disputable...

Personally, I think if they plan to give the vanguard more biotics it should be something new, sadly I can't think of anything that would fit in very nicely with the vanguard fighting style...

[ramnozack]

Pride Demon wrote...

Uhm... An interesting question... Frankly I'm not sure...

For starters, since vanguard is a combat/biotic hybrid class, assuming the number of powers remains the same that would mean losing a combat power (I personally would do away with cryo ammo, never found it very useful, but that's just my opinion)...

Furthermore, there's the problem of giving the vanguard another power while keeping the in-your-face/ high risk high reward/ bring disarray on the enemy lines fighting style typical for the class, all the biotic powers serve this purposes in a vanguard and I'm unsure that can be mantained with the powers we have...

*this is for the run-of-the-mill vanguard I imagine, different playstyles could negate all I write here*
- Singularity: can't be added since it is the signature move of another class (besides it would contradict the lore, vanguard and adept use different implants for their powers, so charge and singularity are mutually esclusive);
- Throw: the vanguard goes up close usually (or mid range at least) and throw sends the enemies further away, it just doesn't mix;
- Warp: this one could go, since vanguard already has pull, besides vanguards had Warp in ME1, but the class has been remodeled in ME2 and now setting AND detonating warp bombs is sideline support, while a vanguard is... well, a vanguard... Still, if used on its own it could cover the vanguard lack of long ranged attacks, whether this ruins the class flavour is disputable...

Personally, I think if they plan to give the vanguard more biotics it should be something new, sadly I can't think of anything that would fit in very nicely with the vanguard fighting style...

 i guess i agree with u on throw it is kinda dumb. But still no vanguard would waste time setting up warp bombs it would take to long and MAYBE in ME 3 they could make it so only Adept warp makes explosions via evolution
warp for vanguard would be for shredding defence at range and extra direct damage

Modifié par ramnozack, 05 juin 2011 - 06:06 .

[Leonia]

ramnozack wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

But we're supposed to be coming up with new ideas not stealing from other classes. Come on, invent a new biotic power, how hard can it be.

Vanguard already had warp they just took it away from them dude. besides what ranged dmg dealing biotic would u suggest

You can hardly compare ME1 warp to ME2 warp, they didn't even do the same thing! Let's stop talking about ME1 and ME2 and start talking about ME3. And those NEW powers. What do you say? This was your idea to discuss after all, OP.

I suggested a melee, non-biotic attack. I don't NEED any ranged biotic attacks added to my vanguard arsenal because I play it the way it was intended to be played.

Truly, I wish we could use melee weapons (since enemies will have them in ME3) but we've already been told that won't happen. Vanguard would be the ideal class to incorporate close-quarter weapons on.

Also, I'm not a dude, dude.

Modifié par leonia42, 05 juin 2011 - 06:10 .

[ramnozack]

leonia42 wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

But we're supposed to be coming up with new ideas not stealing from other classes. Come on, invent a new biotic power, how hard can it be.

Vanguard already had warp they just took it away from them dude. besides what ranged dmg dealing biotic would u suggest

You can hardly compare ME1 warp to ME2 warp, they didn't even do the same thing! Let's stop talking about ME1 and ME2 and start talking about ME3. And those NEW powers. What do you say? This was your idea to discuss after all, OP.

They both did damage dude. just warp was more REAVE like in ME 1 in that it was DOT damage. Besides now you just sound bitter anything i say u will probably just shoot down

[CroGamer002]

Isn't Warp useless in ME1?

[Leonia]

ramnozack wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

But we're supposed to be coming up with new ideas not stealing from other classes. Come on, invent a new biotic power, how hard can it be.

Vanguard already had warp they just took it away from them dude. besides what ranged dmg dealing biotic would u suggest

You can hardly compare ME1 warp to ME2 warp, they didn't even do the same thing! Let's stop talking about ME1 and ME2 and start talking about ME3. And those NEW powers. What do you say? This was your idea to discuss after all, OP.

They both did damage dude. just warp was more REAVE like in ME 1 in that it was DOT damage. Besides now you just sound bitter anything i say u will probably just shoot down

I only shoot down silly, redudant, and utterly pointless ideas. You still have a chance to impress me. If you get over your warp fascination, maybe.

[ramnozack]

leonia42 wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

But we're supposed to be coming up with new ideas not stealing from other classes. Come on, invent a new biotic power, how hard can it be.

Vanguard already had warp they just took it away from them dude. besides what ranged dmg dealing biotic would u suggest

You can hardly compare ME1 warp to ME2 warp, they didn't even do the same thing! Let's stop talking about ME1 and ME2 and start talking about ME3. And those NEW powers. What do you say? This was your idea to discuss after all, OP.

I suggested a melee, non-biotic attack. I don't NEED any ranged biotic attacks added to my vanguard arsenal because I play it the way it was intended to play.

Melee doesn't really make sense with the new melee revamp for every class but ok.....the way YOU play it is YOUR playstyle not EVERYONE else's something some people need to learn. Your way =/= the only way

[ramnozack]

Mesina2 wrote...

Isn't Warp useless in ME1?

HARDLY it did alright dot damage but it gave 75%+ dmg vs the target warp + carnage = owned in ME 1

[ramnozack]

leonia42 wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

ramnozack wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

But we're supposed to be coming up with new ideas not stealing from other classes. Come on, invent a new biotic power, how hard can it be.

Vanguard already had warp they just took it away from them dude. besides what ranged dmg dealing biotic would u suggest

You can hardly compare ME1 warp to ME2 warp, they didn't even do the same thing! Let's stop talking about ME1 and ME2 and start talking about ME3. And those NEW powers. What do you say? This was your idea to discuss after all, OP.

They both did damage dude. just warp was more REAVE like in ME 1 in that it was DOT damage. Besides now you just sound bitter anything i say u will probably just shoot down

I only shoot down silly, redudant, and utterly pointless ideas. You still have a chance to impress me. If you get over your warp fascination, maybe.

Dude...er...gal....um whatever u are dont get mad over a discussion about a video game

[CroGamer002]

Who the hell would go in range attacks with Vanguard?

Vanguard is only class that you have to play CQC.

[Pedro Costa]

ramnozack wrote...
the way YOU play it is YOUR playstyle not EVERYONE else's something some people need to learn. Your way =/= the only way

Take your own advice.
The way she plays is the way Vanguards were MEANT to be played. Her way = the intended way.

Stop trying to make the Vanguard a class no one else wants it to be. You keep spouting that no one should "force" you to play vanguard the right way, but yet you keep on hammering us with your obssession for an adept with a shotty and charge...

[ramnozack]

DarkLord_PT wrote...

ramnozack wrote...
the way YOU play it is YOUR playstyle not EVERYONE else's something some people need to learn. Your way =/= the only way

Take your own advice.
The way she plays is the way Vanguards were MEANT to be played. Her way = the intended way.

Stop trying to make the Vanguard a class no one else wants it to be. You keep spouting that no one should "force" you to play vanguard the right way, but yet you keep on hammering us with your obssession for an adept with a shotty and charge...

You obviously dont know how i play my vanguard. your assuming that because i suggest atleast ONE ranged biotic attack u think i sit behind cover all day and play like a adept. I dont i just dont pigeonhole myself into charging everytime my cooldown is done. I dont think u guys are getting what im saying.

I want a offensive biotic ability that actually does damage. is that better?

Modifié par ramnozack, 05 juin 2011 - 06:20 .

[Kronner]

Nah. Why?
Charge is the ultimate power for CQC. What Vanguard needs is more enemies to kill. That's all.

[Leonia]

I'm not mad, just amused that you didn't read the description on what a Vanguard actually is in-game then proceded to lecture us on how to play it. I'm laughing my arse off, quite frankly.

[ramnozack]

leonia42 wrote...

I'm not mad, just amused that you didn't read the description on what a Vanguard actually is in-game then proceded to lecture us on how to play it. I'm laughing my arse off, quite frankly.

Ok here is the in-game description.

Vanguards are feared for their high-risk high-reward combat style, closing quickly on enemies and destroying them at close range with weapons and biotic abilities.

now read my editied post above i want a offensive biotic ability that does damage it can either be used close ranged or at range or both idc i just want 1.
Now while your replying to this dont pop a blood vessel in your head or something take your time

Modifié par ramnozack, 05 juin 2011 - 06:24 .