255 réponses à ce sujet

[Skilled Seeker]

Droma wrote...

so many professionals from the gaming industry here wow!

do you guys know how small the pc gaming market has become (if you factor out mmo's and strategic games or easier said starcraft)? you make your money on consoloes nowadays. there aren't many pc developers left (mainly valve and cd project) and also they go multiplattform (portal 2 for all plattforms, TW2 for xbox360), so it's totally understandable that you don't put too much effort into something that doesn't really pay off. if they had to please the pc gamers, this could easily cost some month of work (and therefor money) and you have to ask yourself if the people you attract more with these changes are worth it. pc gaming has become a small market and therefor the decision is often easily done.

also stop complain about something you guys have totally no clue about. i really wanna know how many people here demanding on stuff, actually know anything about the work bioware has to do and something about game programming and porting in general. i highly doubt there is anyone here who really has much intel on that.

LOL, it's you who has no idea what you're talking about. The PC market is massive and thriving, particularly in europe and asia, and yes not including WoW or Starcraft. Overall the PC market is actually bigger than the console market (though this includes casual gamers of which there are many more on PC than console).

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 04 juin 2011 - 09:38 .

[erynnar]

Halo Quea wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I admit PC players should get more bang for their buck. I'd be a PC player too for some games if I had a decent PC. It's not unreasonable to want a game to be at its very best and look its very best.


That doesn't mean though that consoles are incredibly inferior products that can't have amazing graphics.

I agree with the sentiment of PC first, console afterwards.


and I have to ask, why do these forums show so much vitriol for Call of Duty? And no, I don't want "because that's the crowd Bioware was aiming for with DA2" as an answer. I want an honest, good, well thought out answer.

I've only played one COD game, Call of Duty 4 - Modern Warfare and I don't see why people would hate the COD games so much.  But i have only played 3 shooters.  COD4, BF2-BC, and Crysis, so what do I know.

They really don't hate COD or shooters in general.  They hate what shooters have come to represent for the RPG genre.   Role playing gamers are frustrated that so much about role playing has been sacrificed in order to accomodate the shooter demographic..................that also admits that don't like playing and/or finishing the SP campaigns of games like COD, BF, etc.  

So you have Bioware knocking themselves out for a shot at better numbers with gamers that don't like rpgs or SP campaign mode,  the singular mode of play for rpgs.  lol.    Most gamers I know whose favorite genre is shooters have told me that ME3 isn't anywhere on their radar. 

This^  is it for me. I don't hate CoD teh game, I can't, I haven't played it, and shooters are not my thing (ME skirts the boundry of how much shooter I want to play). I dislike it more for what it represents, and not it, it's genre. Still, hate is too strong. I don't hate, more dilike.

[elearon1]

This is why devs never say anything concrete on the forums; it turns into a long winded rant full of bickering and finger pointing.

[Realmzmaster]

BrunoB1971 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

I support the developer here, really. If you want better version... Would you pay $80 instead of $60 for PC version then?

nope because cd project proved that a small company can whip DA2 behind with less resources , and make a better game for the same price... so no quality and price should not be mutually synonymous....

So if the Witcher 2 for the consoles is inferior to the Witcher 2 on the PC, console gamers should pay less than their PC counter parts for the game?
In fact since console games (by some standards here on the forum) are inferior to the PV counterparts should not the console gamers be paying less or the same and not more for the game.

As it is now console gamers pay more for the same game. What is the logic there?

[Skilled Seeker]

Realmzmaster wrote...

BrunoB1971 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

I support the developer here, really. If you want better version... Would you pay $80 instead of $60 for PC version then?

nope because cd project proved that a small company can whip DA2 behind with less resources , and make a better game for the same price... so no quality and price should not be mutually synonymous....

So if the Witcher 2 for the consoles is inferior to the Witcher 2 on the PC, console gamers should pay less than their PC counter parts for the game?
In fact since console games (by some standards here on the forum) are inferior to the PV counterparts should not the console gamers be paying less or the same and not more for the game.

As it is now console gamers pay more for the same game. What is the logic there?

You pay more because of loyalty fees. Discounting those, we all pay the same. If you don't want to pay loyalty fees, then play on PC. Quality has nothing to do with it since quality is subjective so this whole brand of thinking is stupid.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 04 juin 2011 - 09:37 .

[Lumikki]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

LOL, it's you who has no idea what you're talking about. The PC market is massive and thriving, particularly in europe and asian, and yes not including WoW or Starcraft. Overall the PC market is actually bigger than the console market (though this includes casual gamers of which there are many more on PC than console).

I disagree again.

PC market has been dying slowly for years on single player game market.

[Skilled Seeker]

Lol the tired old 'PC gaming is dead' nonsense. That's been going for what, 20 years now? I guess we PC gamers are zombies then

Trust me if PC gaming died, you'd know about it. Because no more games would come out on PC and console gaming would suffer as I explained earlier in this thread. As it stands, there are more PC releases now than ever before. Why would people release games that no one buys?

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 04 juin 2011 - 09:41 .

[Well]

Droma wrote...

so many professionals from the gaming industry here wow!

do you guys know how small the pc gaming market has become (if you factor out mmo's and strategic games or easier said starcraft)? you make your money on consoloes nowadays. there aren't many pc developers left (mainly valve and cd project) and also they go multiplattform (portal 2 for all plattforms, TW2 for xbox360), so it's totally understandable that you don't put too much effort into something that doesn't really pay off. if they had to please the pc gamers, this could easily cost some month of work (and therefor money) and you have to ask yourself if the people you attract more with these changes are worth it. pc gaming has become a small market and therefor the decision is often easily done.

also stop complain about something you guys have totally no clue about. i really wanna know how many people here demanding on stuff, actually know anything about the work bioware has to do and something about game programming and porting in general. i highly doubt there is anyone here who really has much intel on that.

Why factor them out?They work on my pc.So wild guess they are pc games.As far as your stop complaining comment.No.Do you know how to change the brushes on the starter for your car?I bet you expect your car to work right.You have the right to your opinion not to mine.

[BrunoB1971]

Droma wrote...

so many professionals from the gaming industry here wow!

do you guys know how small the pc gaming market has become (if you factor out mmo's and strategic games or easier said starcraft)? you make your money on consoloes nowadays. there aren't many pc developers left (mainly valve and cd project) and also they go multiplattform (portal 2 for all plattforms, TW2 for xbox360), so it's totally understandable that you don't put too much effort into something that doesn't really pay off. if they had to please the pc gamers, this could easily cost some month of work (and therefor money) and you have to ask yourself if the people you attract more with these changes are worth it. pc gaming has become a small market and therefor the decision is often easily done.

also stop complain about something you guys have totally no clue about. i really wanna know how many people here demanding on stuff, actually know anything about the work bioware has to do and something about game programming and porting in general. i highly doubt there is anyone here who really has much intel on that.

face it, pc market is dying since some years now (and yes it won't totally die but it becomes more and more less important). the reasons are mainly piracy and the 352305 variations of systems you have to factor in development. i mean imagine creating a website. you have to optimze it for any big browser (and there are only 4) and even this sometimes gets little bit complicated. so now imagine doing it for a lot more.

it is amazing to see that so many people have so much blind devotion to a company and cant see no wrong from a company. they are not above making stuff that does not please everyone.

the main contention issue is that the bioware team decided to make the game cross platform and that everyone payed for it. the game should have had a seperate team to make sure that the game uses the strenghts of all systems...

why do you think dungeons were recycled? it does not take a genius to see that it simplifies the coding for the 360, and you have less loading time and the foot print is lower on the disk and the hardware...did the pc gamers have to pay for that kind of shortcut?

i could go on and on and on but what is the point...what is done is done.. but what i hate is the fact that some people at bioware still think they have done no wrong or are usign every excuses possible to censor threads when they see that it gets personnal towards them,,,

that is wrong...

[Droma]

i'm not talking about casual and facebook games, if you factor them in then yes you are right again. im talking about AAA titles and industry "giants", namely sony, ms, nintendo,activison/blizzard, bioware/ea, squareenix, capcom, bethesda and so on. they make there money on consoles, not on pcs anymore. sry to destroy your dreamworld. look at the sales of any big game and you will see that console sales often are way higher then pc games. and in europe (and especially in asia) the console market is still way bigger then the pc market.

again i'm just talking about AAA games here. no facebook games and no apps.

and to you bruno, you think as a consumer not as a producer that is the problem. everything you want them to do cost them money, and the point is, they have to make more money then they spent (otherwise you won't see any bioware games again). so sure it would be great if they would have made DA2 a better experince for pc gamers, but the point is how much would this have cost them and how many more people would have bought da2? pc market is way smaller then console market, that is a fact, just look at sales.

Modifié par Droma, 04 juin 2011 - 09:45 .

[Lumikki]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Lol the tired old 'PC gaming is dead' nonsense. That's been going for what, 20 years now? I guess we PC gamers are zombies then

Trust me if PC gaming died, you'd know about it. Because no more games would come out on PC and console gaming would suffer as I explained earlier in this thread. As it stands, there are more PC releases now than ever before. Why would people release games that no one buys?

I never sayed it's dead, it's still bigger than consoles, but it has been getting smaller and smaller in past years. I'm not talking PC gaming in general, but single player games, like Bioware is doing. Example PC games dominate in mmorpg market.

Modifié par Lumikki, 04 juin 2011 - 09:43 .

[BrunoB1971]

Lumikki wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

LOL, it's you who has no idea what you're talking about. The PC market is massive and thriving, particularly in europe and asian, and yes not including WoW or Starcraft. Overall the PC market is actually bigger than the console market (though this includes casual gamers of which there are many more on PC than console).

I disagree again.

PC market has been dying slowly for years on single player game market.

its is a dead comment, if pc gaming was to die, intel, nvidia and amd would be out of business by now...what do you think drives the pc part industry...not the 1000 computers at nasa, thats for sure..pc gamers drive the innovation in hardware and software..so pc gaming is dead is just a lame excuse...really...

i am sure the people at nvidia and ati and intel would agree with my comments, they dont want to see pc gmaing die, thats for sure!

[Skilled Seeker]

Lumikki wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Lol the tired old 'PC gaming is dead' nonsense. That's been going for what, 20 years now? I guess we PC gamers are zombies then

Trust me if PC gaming died, you'd know about it. Because no more games would come out on PC and console gaming would suffer as I explained earlier in this thread. As it stands, there are more PC releases now than ever before. Why would people release games that no one buys?

I never sayed it's dead, it's still bigger than consoles, but it has been getting smaller and smaller in past years. I'm not talking PC gaming in general, but single player games, like Bioware is doing. Example PC games dominate in mmorpg market.

Do you have any stats to back up these claims? Otherwise they mean nothing. There are many single player games releasing on PC this year of all sorts.

[Gorath Alpha]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

*Pc Elitist Babble*

Babble, certainly.  PCs are inherently superior in the overall scheme of things, so the term "PC Elitists" is an oxymoron.  One term, "PC" equals another "Elite", so it's a meaningless pair when put together. 

[Lumikki]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Do you have any stats to back up these claims? Otherwise they mean nothing. There are many single player games releasing on PC this year of all sorts.

Nope, but I have been reading internet. Try example this one, it's 3 years ago.

http://www.tomshardw...-console-losing

US PC Game Software Sales
1998 - $1.8 billion
1999 - $1.9 billion
2000 - $1.78 billion (84.9 million units)
2001 - $1.75 billion (83.6 million units)
2002 - $1.4 billion (61.5 million units)
2003 - $1.2 billion (52.8 million units)
2004 - $1.1 billion (47 million units)
2005 - $953 million (38 million units)
2006 - $970 million

Modifié par Lumikki, 04 juin 2011 - 09:52 .

[BrunoB1971]

plus the install base for a game is potentially bigger than console, it depends on the quality of the game and how much noise it generates..so consoles are good, pc "are better" but that is subjective....

[Dragoonlordz]

Droma wrote...

i'm not talking about casual and facebook games, if you factor them in then yes you are right again. im talking about AAA titles and industry "giants", namely sony, ms, nintendo,activison/blizzard, bioware/ea, squareenix, capcom, bethesda and so on. they make there money on consoles, not on pcs anymore. sry to destroy your dreamworld. look at the sales of any big game and you will see that console sales often are way higher then pc games. and in europe (and especially in asia) the console market is still way bigger then the pc market.

again i'm just talking about AAA games here. no facebook games and no apps.

Your a drama queen making things up as you go along from the aspect of PC vs console hardware sales, I would hardly call 22billion a dying breed.

http://www.xbitlabs....illion_JPR.html

All those companies you listed make the same games for PC. Blizzard espeically makes more money from PC than your wildest imaginations that dwarfs (no pun intended) anything they make on consoles.  While you may have one semi accurate generalisation which is some companies make more money on consoles than on PC, the fact is PC gaming will never die it would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Drama queens have been saying PC gaming was going to die out many, many years ago and never has and never will.

In summary games you may have some validity, hardware you do not imho.

An interesting read :

http://www.game-news...e-news/232.html

Among the key findings: Annual shipment volumes for the PC Gaming hardware market in 2009 were over two times larger than the combined Wii™, PlayStation® 2, PlayStation® 3 and Xbox 360® console units shipped in the same period.  This trend for the PC Gaminghardware market to outpace all console shipments combined is expected to continue through the forecasted period of the research.  In addition, revenues from consumer PCs capable of gaming that shipped with a discrete GPU (excludes Netbooks and integrated graphics-based PCs) totaled approximately $54.6 billion in 2009 and are forecasted to grow to $61.3 billion by 2014. These revenue figures are based on an estimated 61.5 million PCs (Desktop and Laptops) shipped in 2009 that can largely be associated with PC gaming as a key usage scenario.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 juin 2011 - 09:59 .

[Droma]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Lol the tired old 'PC gaming is dead' nonsense. That's been going for what, 20 years now? I guess we PC gamers are zombies then

Trust me if PC gaming died, you'd know about it. Because no more games would come out on PC and console gaming would suffer as I explained earlier in this thread. As it stands, there are more PC releases now than ever before. Why would people release games that no one buys?

I never sayed it's dead, it's still bigger than consoles, but it has been getting smaller and smaller in past years. I'm not talking PC gaming in general, but single player games, like Bioware is doing. Example PC games dominate in mmorpg market.

Do you have any stats to back up these claims? Otherwise they mean nothing. There are many single player games releasing on PC this year of all sorts.

yes sure they do, and all there sales are way inferior then on the consoles, want some examples? let's take again vgchartz, even if it is kinda inaccurate but it's still the best we have:

portal 2: http://gamrreview.vg...65/portal-2/    910k (xbox) + 660k (ps3) vs 166k (pc)
cod:bo: http://gamrreview.vg...y-black-ops/    12,52m (xbox) + 10m (ps3) vs 1,12m (pc)
da2: http://gamrreview.vg...dragon-age-ii/  720k (xbox) + 370k (ps3) vs 272k (pc)


and many more, just look for yourself. sure you can add some digital downloads to the pc front but still, console sales are higher then pc sales. so why focus too much on pc only content when only a small percent of your costumers get something out of it.

dragonguy, read my post again, i factored blizzard out (and you can factor them in agian if you treat them as activision/blizzard as they are and they mainly make there money on cod, which also has superior console sales. and wow yes 22billion pc sales say so much, because pcs are only for gaming! i forget that sry. i have no point in arguing with pc gamers who don't see reality. i never said pc gaming is dying but as a matter of fact it becomes less and less important (thank piracy for that =D)

Modifié par Droma, 04 juin 2011 - 10:00 .

[Realmzmaster]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

BrunoB1971 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...

I support the developer here, really. If you want better version... Would you pay $80 instead of $60 for PC version then?

nope because cd project proved that a small company can whip DA2 behind with less resources , and make a better game for the same price... so no quality and price should not be mutually synonymous....

So if the Witcher 2 for the consoles is inferior to the Witcher 2 on the PC, console gamers should pay less than their PC counter parts for the game?
In fact since console games (by some standards here on the forum) are inferior to the PV counterparts should not the console gamers be paying less or the same and not more for the game.

As it is now console gamers pay more for the same game. What is the logic there?

You pay more because of loyalty fees. Discounting those, we all pay the same. If you don't want to pay loyalty fees, then play on PC. Quality has nothing to do with it since quality is subjective so this whole brand of thinking is stupid.

You mean because of the royalty fees paid to Microsoft and/or Sony or is it because of the expense developers have to pay to those who do the actually port to consoles because the developer is unable to do it themselves.

But if the game is developed on the PC and some are saying all you have to do is remove or downgrade parts from the PC version then that cost savings should be passed on to the console players to help offset the royalty fees.

Or is it because it is not as simple as downgrading the PC version to fit the consoles as others here have suggested.

As to the PC version of the product and what rig you have if the minimum requirements stated on the box are met then I can reasonably assume that the game will run reasonably well on that rig. If the recommended requirements are met then the game so run very well on that rig. So a game that does not take advantage of all the bells and whistles on your rig cannot be faulted for not doing so.

[Skilled Seeker]

Lumikki wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Do you have any stats to back up these claims? Otherwise they mean nothing. There are many single player games releasing on PC this year of all sorts.

Nope, but I have been reading internet. Try example this one, it's 3 years ago.

http://www.tomshardw...-console-losing

Now that's really funny. PC hardware is moving out of traditional gaming stores because there are PC dedicated stores like Curry's or PC world and the rising popularity of consoles means console stuff needs to be sold somewhere. High end PC hardware can be found at these stores in abundance. There are few PC games being sold in traditional stores because more and more people are buying PC games online as it is far more convenient and tends to be cheaper.

PC gaming can never die. Hardware and software companies that are invested in gaming will always provide additional incentives when PC games or hardware sales decrease which then results in an increase in sales. The PC gaming market is rising, not at the rate of the console market, but it is still in the lead and certainly not in decline. This rise is not a straight line but constant fluctuations.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 04 juin 2011 - 10:02 .

[Droma]

can you also show proof of anything you say skilled seeker or is it just us who have to proof something to you? you actually know how much money ea makes on the console market vs the money they make on the pc market? i would really love to see informations which proof that the pc market is more profitable then the console market. and again nobody said it's dying out. pc market allways will be there and there will allways be pc games and some games allways will work better on pc (especially mmos).

[Skilled Seeker]

Droma wrote...

and many more, just look for yourself. sure you can add some digital downloads to the pc front but still, console sales are higher then pc sales. so why focus too much on pc only content when only a small percent of your costumers get something out of it.

dragonguy, read my post again, i factored blizzard out (and you can factor them in agian if you treat them as activision/blizzard as they are and they mainly make there money on cod, which also has superior pc games. and wow yes 22billion pc sales say so much, because pcs are only for gaming! i forget that sry. i have no point in arguing with pc gamers who don't see reality. i never said pc gaming is dying but as a matter of fact it becomes less and less important (thank piracy for that =D)

You realise digital sales on PC are much higher than hard sales don't you? And since these sales are never included in such charts, these charts cannot be used to compare. Piracy has a small impact but no where near as exaggerated as people make it out to be, and piracy affects consoles almost as much.

[AtreiyaN7]

Some of the things that I find disgusting: vomit, seafood, and long-winded posts about people's "disgust" over dev comments. If you have a serious issue with some aspect of the game, maybe you should stick to elaborating on that instead of writing about how offended you are by what dev <x> said as if the dev was somehow being insulting, etc. The UI was clean and serviceable - if you want something more elaborate for the PC, well, try to make an actual case for it then.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 04 juin 2011 - 10:01 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Droma wrote...

dragonguy, read my post again, i factored blizzard out (and you can factor them in agian if you treat them as activision/blizzard as they are and they mainly make there money on cod, which also has superior console sales. and wow yes 22billion pc sales say so much, because pcs are only for gaming! i forget that sry. i have no point in arguing with pc gamers who don't see reality. i never said pc gaming is dying but as a matter of fact it becomes less and less important (thank piracy for that =D)

You didn't factor it out till after I responded hence why it was no in the (shown) original quote which my reply was based on.