255 réponses à ce sujet

[Zanallen]

I think this is another issue with development budget and time constraints. If Bioware had crafted the game with the PC in mind, they would never have had the time to finish it and get the console port done within the time limit. So, Bioware had to make the game across all platforms at the same time, which lead them to designing with the consoles in mind, rather than the PC.

[neppakyo]

Zanallen wrote...

I think this is another issue with development budget and time constraints. If Bioware had crafted the game with the PC in mind, they would never have had the time to finish it and get the console port done within the time limit. So, Bioware had to make the game across all platforms at the same time, which lead them to designing with the consoles in mind, rather than the PC.

The only difficult port would be the PS3, as it uses a linux based OS and OpenGL type API. PC and xbox use DirectX API, with the PC being able to handle OpenGL as well. Also a bit easier developing on the 360's PowerPC CPU (Which apple dropped years ago in favour of intel, and I do not know why MS went that route...) and the PS3's Cell processor is awesome in theory, but no one has been able to maximize its use, aka core offloading.

And read my links I posted in the previous page dammit lol. 

[Zanallen]

neppakyo wrote...

The only difficult port would be the PS3, as it uses a linux based OS and OpenGL type API. PC and xbox use DirectX API, with the PC being able to handle OpenGL as well. Also a bit easier developing on the 360's PowerPC CPU (Which apple dropped years ago in favour of intel, and I do not know why MS went that route...) and the PS3's Cell processor is awesome in theory, but no one has been able to maximize its use, aka core offloading.

And read my links I posted in the previous page dammit lol. 

I-I can't...It is a shameful secret, but...I can't read.

[AtreiyaN7]

neppakyo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

BrunoB1971 wrote...
those who choose to get a console should live with their limitations and i as
a pc player who upgrades his machine should not pay for the physical
and software barriers that console impose. i chose to invest in a pc to
get a better gaming experience but i should not pay for an xbox player
machine in terms of quality!!!!!!!!!!

Than take your PC back to the store.  Don't blame console gamers for the fact that you wasted your money.

Thats quite an utterly useless reply.

Its devs that are mostly to blame. And casual gamers

Rather like your reply or, say, the OP's post. Want some sort of fancy UI with gargoyles menacingly posed at the corners of your UI accompanied by elaborate scrollwork or whatever other frippery sets the appropriate mood for "hardcore" RPG gamers? Then it should be possible for those who want that to do that without being complete <fill in the blank with the term of your choice>. I would have taken this sorry thread a lot more seriously if it didn't seem like yet another of those "OMG, I am SO offended by what the dev said and took great personal umbrage over it" things.

I love my PC and have no particular desire to get a console (although L.A. Noire is quite possibly the one game that will tempt me into taking the plunge). People can make all the points they want about our greater processing power and graphical capabilities, but none of that has much relevance to whether or not the UI was functional and did its job or ways to improve the UI to suit the "hardcore" RPG gamer's tastes. If there are concrete things that you actually desire in the UI, then list them - list whatever the heck it is that makes your hearts go pitter-pat when you see a UI that you love. Meanwhile, unless I see some sort of significantly interesting post, I think I'll continue on with not taking this thread very seriously at all.

[Zanallen]

I want to throw in that I don't understand the limitation. Too much info on the screen during play can be troublesome, sure. However, why can't the menus be pretty? Especially if they take up the whole screen like the menu in DA:O did. I mean, the notebook in Uncharted 2 was pretty and worked like an actual book.

[Auru]

It's a bit sad that this all gets swept up in the 'PC Elitest' pile of crap that people like to spew

Many games these days are limited because they are developed multiplatform, people just pick on Dragon Age 2 because it is one of the most obvious failings of doing this

Gamers do want to see the devs get as much as they deserve for great games, the more people who can play them the better really, it just sucks massively when shortcuts are taken, compromises are made and they stick out like a sore thumb to the players

[Well]

Rojahar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Except it was on-topic. By interpreting the topic narrowly when asked follow-up questions, actual conversation is stifled and grinds to a halt.

Case in point: If an individual - for example - had no issues with the PC UI, are they to be labeled a troll attempting to cite a flamewar?

If you don't rant and rave in every thread, demanding that Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider personally visit the homes of each and every person who bought DA2 to personally apologize for making the game, then YOU are a troll.

Really?I am sure you can post some links to back that up.There are Fanboys/haters who will go overboard.But to make a statement like yours is ludicrous.Unless you can back that up with facts.Bottom line is some people the game was the best thing since popcorn.Others it was the pits.Myself it was nothing special.The game had potential but didnt deliever.That is my opinion.

[BrunoB1971]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

BrunoB1971 wrote...
those who choose to get a console should live with their limitations and i as
a pc player who upgrades his machine should not pay for the physical
and software barriers that console impose. i chose to invest in a pc to
get a better gaming experience but i should not pay for an xbox player
machine in terms of quality!!!!!!!!!!

Than take your PC back to the store.  Don't blame console gamers for the fact that you wasted your money.

Thats quite an utterly useless reply.

Its devs that are mostly to blame. And casual gamers

Rather like your reply or, say, the OP's post. Want some sort of fancy UI with gargoyles menacingly posed at the corners of your UI accompanied by elaborate scrollwork or whatever other frippery sets the appropriate mood for "hardcore" RPG gamers? Then it should be possible for those who want that to do that without being complete <fill in the blank with the term of your choice>. I would have taken this sorry thread a lot more seriously if it didn't seem like yet another of those "OMG, I am SO offended by what the dev said and took great personal umbrage over it" things.

I love my PC and have no particular desire to get a console (although L.A. Noire is quite possibly the one game that will tempt me into taking the plunge). People can make all the points they want about our greater processing power and graphical capabilities, but none of that has much relevance to whether or not the UI was functional and did its job or ways to improve the UI to suit the "hardcore" RPG gamer's tastes. If there are concrete things that you actually desire in the UI, then list them - list whatever the heck it is that makes your hearts go pitter-pat when you see a UI that you love. Meanwhile, unless I see some sort of significantly interesting post, I think I'll continue on with not taking this thread very seriously at all.

what is wrong with matching the UI with the genre? i like the origins UI and tought it was pretty cool and respcted the tradition that was implemented many years ago with bioware games. i would not want a COD UI in da because it would not fit. but simplifying the ui because of bad reasons is not the way to go.

[BrunoB1971]

i for one have said before that i hate to see something fail, i dont like to see DA2 fail but by the same token the company has to take steps not to fail which it did not and only have themselves to blame...

[upsettingshorts]

There's nothing inherently wrong with wanting a UI to reflect the themes of the game genre.

There's also nothing inherently wrong with wanting a clean, unobtrusive UI.

That's why it's a subjective issue. If someone claims to like the style of DA2's UI that's their prerogative.

Now if the discussion is about console-friendly UI decisions like a command wheel or list inventory, that'd be different.

[Dragoonlordz]

neppakyo wrote...

Go to work, and come back to a mass of posts! Too much to reply to, I'll just make a few points.

As to pirating; The pirate scene is huge on the xbox360, as big are bigger than on the PC. You just have to visit torrents sites to see.

And to the PC games dying. Funny people still think this.

Bit of an old post but.. http://www.escapistm...Gets-PC-Centric

Seems Ubisoft will be developing for the PC.

And for the EA take.. http://www.twi8er.co...that-ea-thinks/

Facebook and PC games are the future EA thinks. There was another article I can't find thats older and said the PC market was the future of gaming.

Right now for EA console games are cheap money. Especially at the rate of subpar crap they released in recent years.

EA have actually during this years E3 said that they plan to open their own PC game store online the equivilant of Steam. EA as such will be heavily into promoting the PC market I believe and digital sales. Though it does worry me about the deal they struck with GoG over them supplying EA's old titles in their store as if EA becomes the equivilant of Steam whats stopping them breaking that deal and hosting and selling themselves.

What I see happening is EA will pretend to be investing a lot of time and effort into giving GoG titles to sell while the real reason is to look at how they do it and then copy and break away. I'm still curious how the deal with GoG is going to work given EA's reliance on DRM and GoG's pride of not using it.

Anyways like most people here said develop PC first (if multiformat) then reduce to function on the console. If we had any say on it then it would be done but this is Bioware we are talking about I somehow doubt they will do as we ask here in this thread.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 05 juin 2011 - 03:04 .

[AtreiyaN7]

BrunoB1971 wrote...


what is wrong with matching the UI with the genre? i like the origins UI and tought it was pretty cool and respcted the tradition that was implemented many years ago with bioware games. i would not want a COD UI in da because it would not fit. but simplifying the ui because of bad reasons is not the way to go.

And did I say that it was wrong? I take issue with the fact that you insisted that you were "disgusted" and appeared to act as if the devs somehow did it with complete disregard to us (PC gamers) - otherwise, I don't give a flying fig about the UI. It worked, and it was clean - in that regard it did its job. If people want to suggest improvements or state what they like without being jerks about it, then have at it.

As I recall, people actually complained about the numbered cards in the DA:O codex and wanted it changed. If I'm not mistaken, people even suggested that it be more like the ME codex in terms of organization.It's not as if I don't have issues with things like the recycled areas, btw - I just don't throw hissy-fits over it and attack the devs or console players as a general rule. You don't like that they claimed it was a limitation? Fine, but Is there some great need to diss the console gamers, etc.? Make whatever points you have about <x> game doing something you liked or whatever you feel is missing. Your feedback (such as it is) would probably be taken more seriously if you managed to do that.

[neppakyo]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Go to work, and come back to a mass of posts! Too much to reply to, I'll just make a few points.

As to pirating; The pirate scene is huge on the xbox360, as big are bigger than on the PC. You just have to visit torrents sites to see.

And to the PC games dying. Funny people still think this.

Bit of an old post but.. http://www.escapistm...Gets-PC-Centric

Seems Ubisoft will be developing for the PC.

And for the EA take.. http://www.twi8er.co...that-ea-thinks/

Facebook and PC games are the future EA thinks. There was another article I can't find thats older and said the PC market was the future of gaming.

Right now for EA console games are cheap money. Especially at the rate of subpar crap they released in recent years.

EA have actually during this years E3 said that they plan to open their own PC game store online the equivilant of Steam. EA as such will be heavily into promoting the PC market I believe and digital sales. Though it does worry me about the deal they struck with GoG over them supplying EA's old titles in their store as if EA becomes the equivilant of Steam whats stopping them breaking that deal and hosting and selling themselves.

What I see happening is EA will pretend to be investing a lot of time and effort into giving GoG titles to sell while the real reason is to look at how they do it and then copy and break away. I'm still curious how the deal with GoG is going to work given EA's reliance on DRM and GoG's pride of not using it.

Anyways like most people here said develop PC first (if multiformat) then reduce to function on the console. If we had any say on it then it would be done but this is Bioware we are talking about I somehow doubt they will do as we ask here in this thread.

(leaving the quote of my quote for said links for people to read  )

Well, since they're very old EA games I am sure DRM isn't an issue cause at the moment, EA isn't making money. With GoG, DRM free and selling old EA titles, EA is getting another small revenue source with no effort on their part.

I agree, I am leery with EA trying to become the new steam. They f**k up so much, and I can see them f**king up this. Imho, Steam is the WoW of digital distributars, it'll take a lot to dislodge the giant.

I feel like a parrot, and I've been saying develop for PC first, then adapt to the consoles. Develop a good flexible engine that can retain the core of the game with weaker hardware (xbox360). It may be a bit more, but everyone will benifit with a more solid game.

[erynnar]

Zanallen wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I don't see it as bickering, and no one brought up those lovely put down names until you Zan. I take it as amusing debates. Your mileage may vary apparently. 

You haven't been paying close enough attention, eryn. The third post in this thread consists of nothing but the phrase "PC Elitist Babble". And there have been a number of other posts throughout the thread with various degrees of thinly veiled snark.

But, to not derail the thread, in a perfect world, then sure. The devs could make the PC version and then scale it back a bit for the console release. However, this is not a perfect world. The process is more than likely difficult, or at least far more difficult than the posters here would have me believe. And I hope you are all suggesting that the PC version is held back until the console version is done. I doubt that console players would stand for a TW2 style deal were the console port won't be out until several months after the PC version.

I know I was teasing you! Silly! I was teasing UpsettingShorts too! You guys take me too seriously, seriously! 

I like you both, what do I have to do to make you two laugh? Hmmmm *gets out Groucho Marx glasses, a chimpanzee, and a pair of rubber pants* Will these work?

[Zanallen]

erynnar wrote...

I know I was teasing you! Silly! I was teasing UpsettingShorts too! You guys take me too seriously, seriously! 

I like you both, what do I have to do to make you two laugh? Hmmmm *gets out Groucho Marx glasses, a chimpanzee, and a pair of rubber pants* Will these work?

Well you know how terrible writing is at conveying tone and intent.

[Auru]

I do actually like that the quote in the original post was even said at all, thats a bold statement to make on your forum and is almost inviting a hostile reaction, but it's right on the money as far as the truth goes

good to see not all bioware guys who post do so in a toothless manner

[erynnar]

Zanallen wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I know I was teasing you! Silly! I was teasing UpsettingShorts too! You guys take me too seriously, seriously! 

I like you both, what do I have to do to make you two laugh? Hmmmm *gets out Groucho Marx glasses, a chimpanzee, and a pair of rubber pants* Will these work?

Well you know how terrible writing is at conveying tone and intent.

Very true Zan! But I do enjoy your posts even if we don't always agree. I like smart people. That's why I like hanging out here. I wish I was one of them, but, well...shhh don't tell anyone. I might get kicked off!

[Zanallen]

erynnar wrote...

Very true Zan! But I do enjoy your posts even if we don't always agree. I like smart people. That's why I like hanging out here. I wish I was one of them, but, well...shhh don't tell anyone. I might get kicked off!

Don't worry. As I admitted to nepp, I'm actually illiterate.

But really, can someone answer my earlier question? I understand that intensive UIs can be problematic on consoles due to a lot of stuff on screen at once. However, why can't the menus look pretty? They are generally full screen so you don't have to worry about extra action bogging things down. The codex for the PC version of Origins was a million times better than the console version. But Oblivion had better menus and Uncharted has a notebook that you can pull up that is filled with sketches and you and flip the pages like an actual book.

[neppakyo]

erynnar wrote...

Very true Zan! But I do enjoy your posts even if we don't always agree. I like smart people. That's why I like hanging out here. I wish I was one of them, but, well...shhh don't tell anyone. I might get kicked off!

I thought it was because I was so awesome. :innocent:

No go read links i posted and all my awesome points I made, and compliment me on how awesome I am!

[neppakyo]

Zanallen wrote...

Don't worry. As I admitted to nepp, I'm actually illiterate.

But really, can someone answer my earlier question? I understand that intensive UIs can be problematic on consoles due to a lot of stuff on screen at once. However, why can't the menus look pretty? They are generally full screen so you don't have to worry about extra action bogging things down. The codex for the PC version of Origins was a million times better than the console version. But Oblivion had better menus and Uncharted has a notebook that you can pull up that is filled with sketches and you and flip the pages like an actual book.

Oh I know. I bet you're having microsoft sam read these posts out to you, and your special typing monkey to make posts for you

Basically I think its a BW cop out excuse, and poor programming/optimization. BW games have always had sloppy programming. Not to mention the grandpa engine they're using for DA. Other games seem to handle a decent UI fine, perhaps BW can ask those other companies how they do it.

Modifié par neppakyo, 05 juin 2011 - 03:26 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I am a bilingual illiterate: I can't read in two languages.

[Dio Demon]

(The ground splits open and from the deep bowels of the earth an obsidian throne rises with the Crazy Eyed One sitting on it) ... Nepp you're awesum button material (Throne sinks back into ground with the Crazy Eyed One)

[neppakyo]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

(The ground splits open and from the deep bowels of the earth an obsidian throne rises with the Crazy Eyed One sitting on it) ... Nepp you're awesum button material (Throne sinks back into ground with the Crazy Eyed One)

I'm not sure if I'm scared, insulted, or praised....

[Dio Demon]

neppakyo wrote...

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

(The ground splits open and from the deep bowels of the earth an obsidian throne rises with the Crazy Eyed One sitting on it) ... Nepp you're awesum button material (Throne sinks back into ground with the Crazy Eyed One)

I'm not sure if I'm scared, insulted, or praised....

I mean't the evil sort of awesum button. Join the dark side Nepp we have milk and cookies

[neppakyo]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...
I mean't the evil sort of awesum button. Join the dark side Nepp we have milk and cookies

Ahh! *kicks a girl scout selling cookies in the face* I heard you have cookies and milk.