79 réponses à ce sujet

[Smoli]

All i see happening is losing a lot of dps due to no backstabbing. Or am i missing something?

[Smoli]

I suppose precise strike could be nice to miss very little, but ud still hit real slow

[Discobird]

DW warriors can tank without hurting their DPS. Rogues can't do this all the time since they need their targets to face the other way (Coup de Grace only goes so far...)

[Spyndel]

Depends on the role you want him to play. If you want to tank with him, go warrior. Also, the points you save on investing in cunning can all go into STR, allowing for heavier armor, and probably a higher *average* DPS, though you wont get as high of a *situational* DPS.

[Smoli]

how can a dw warrior tank any better than a rogue? especialy since rogues get evasion

[Theranon]

Smoli wrote...

how can a dw warrior tank any better than a rogue? especialy since rogues get evasion

Mainly the fact that rogues do more damage based on their position, and taunts. But other than that...

Modifié par Theranon, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:27 .

[Spyndel]

Smoli wrote...

how can a dw warrior tank any better than a rogue? especialy since rogues get evasion

They get Aggro management abilities.

[Smoli]

but theranon are u saying a dw warrior will do more dmg in frontal combat than a rogue? I just dont see why.

[Spyndel]

Smoli wrote...

but theranon are u saying a dw warrior will do more dmg in frontal combat than a rogue? I just dont see why.

Because a rogue has a lot of different demands on his stats. In order to be a good rogue, they have to pump cunning.  Lethaility allows them to use CNG * instead * of STR for max damage, but not on top of.  It would be rare to have a rogue with as High of a Cunning score as you can pump STR as a warrior, so a warrior is going to have a higher *average* DPS, though a rogue might be higher situationally. Not to mention, higher STR allows for better armor.

[Discobird]

Smoli wrote...

but theranon are u saying a dw warrior will do more dmg in frontal combat than a rogue? I just dont see why.

More damage from specs for one thing.  Berserk and Blood Frenzy add damage to frontal attacks, Exploit Weakness doesn't.  Warriors also get more bonus damage per levelup (works out to a +7.2 damage advantage at lvl 18). [EDIT: I fail at math, actually it's only 3.6.  Still.] That all adds up.

Modifié par Discobird, 20 novembre 2009 - 02:48 .

[Kozuka78]

DW Warrior > DW rogue.

For pure dps go rogue. for almost the same dps whilst at the same time being an unkillable tank go warrior.

Dual Wield warriors dont hit slow at all. They have access to exactly the same dual wield talents as rogue. They use exactly the same weapons as rogue. 

Modifié par Kozuka78, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:24 .

[Sword For Hire]

when choosing your DW character bear in mind the pros and cons of each
Starting Race Stats
Starting class Stats
class Specializations & Stats
Blood Magic talents (differ from class to class)

I haven't seen the Blood Magic Talents for the Rogue class... so... unless I find out what those are
then

Warrior is best


*activates imho protection and a magical barrier shimmers into view*

Modifié par Sword For Hire, 20 novembre 2009 - 03:35 .

[Sharog]

the reason why dw warrior output significantly more dmg in frontal situation is due to berserking + blood frenzy + blood ability u get in warden keep stack extreemly well together, swinging for 100 per hit with 2 wpn chop down even dragons in couple seconds.. while rogue has only duelist spec that increase frontal dmg. for the rest in same build they are not much different.

[DrekorSilverfang]

Discobird wrote...

DW warriors can tank without hurting their DPS. Rogues can't do this all the time since they need their targets to face the other way (Coup de Grace only goes so far...)

Eh? Duelist > Pinpoint strikes. Also combine with paralyze runes in each dagger and you'll be able to crit/backstab nearly everyhit against a boss even when going toe to toe. Also a warrior can't really touch a rogues damage because of the backstab/crit damage. They also get evasion which helps them avoid a great deal of damage and throw in the fact most rogues use massive armor to.

Here's the situation as a DW dagger rogue...

Mark of death > pinpoint strikes > daggers critting for 90+. Daggers hit considerably faster than longswords/axes/maces. Anything that lives long enough for your pinpoint strikes to wear off will get screwed by paralyze runes in your weapons.

I haven't seen the Blood Magic Talents for the Rogue class... so... unless I find out what those are
then

First is faster speed in stealth and better evasion the other is +damage to weapons... which could easily put dagger backstabs over 100 but it drains health to and already hitting 90's is completely overkill.

Modifié par DrekorSilverfang, 20 novembre 2009 - 05:45 .

[Sharog]

dw warrior hits flat dmg per hand over 100 with bloodfrenzy + berserking, in term of raw dmg they are on pair, not to mention they dont need paralyzing runes to do that kind of dmg which means they can use other runes. due to the common str build for war and war inherit talents they have higher physical resist by default. hence less vulnerable to stun/knockdown type of attacks and allow them to output more dmg. even with 2x grandmaster paralyzing runes + 1x master , u still dont paralyze everytime u want it to. it is mute point to claim rogue does better dmg. in practise a dw war does about 20% more dmg. and it is way easier to hit whirlwind/duel weapon sweep with warrior because they tend to attract large amount of mobs around them to begin with. while as a rogue hitting stuff from behind rarely has the oppertunity to benefit those.



but obviously the merit for a rogue is for his other goodies like stealth and lockpicking.

[Discobird]

DrekorSilverfang wrote...

Eh? Duelist > Pinpoint strikes. Also combine with paralyze runes in each dagger and you'll be able to crit/backstab nearly everyhit against a boss even when going toe to toe. Also a warrior can't really touch a rogues damage because of the backstab/crit damage. They also get evasion which helps them avoid a great deal of damage and throw in the fact most rogues use massive armor to.

Pinpoint Strikes only gives you 15s of crits every three minutes.  Most fights you only get to use it once.  Same with Mark of Death which also only affects one target.  Plus Pinpoint Strikes causes autocrits, not backstabs, which means it doesn't trigger bonus damage from Exploit Weakness.  

It works out that a lvl 18 dagger/dagger build with DPS-maximizing gear and stat allocation gains about 23 points of damage/hit when he activates Pinpoint Strike while attacking from the front.  A Berserker/Reaver gets +11-21 damage/hit from his specs and class, depending on his health.  The rogue will outdamage the warrior while Pinpoint Strikes is active but the warrior will catch up and surpass the rogue pretty quickly after it expires.

As for paralyze runes, I've tried them and haven't found much use for them tbh, even with Momentum'd dual daggers behind them.  They just don't proc very often  Plus there is only one grandmaster paralyze rune in the game AFAIK so it's not like you can stack them as well as you can stack elemental runes.  If they stack at all.

Modifié par Discobird, 20 novembre 2009 - 06:25 .

[Spyndel]

Ive stacked a Grandmaster Paralyze rune with a (next highest), and have not noted any significant increase in frequency. It's just a rare happenstance, maybe 1 out of 75-100 hits will produce a stun.



Far better to double stack damage runes, IMO.

[DragoonKain3]

Hmm... just wondering, how come pinpoint striking only increases damage by 23 points per hit? Doesn't pinpoint striking activate a crit, which means 2x damage with maximized crit damage equips?

[Discobird]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Hmm... just wondering, how come pinpoint striking only increases damage by 23 points per hit? Doesn't pinpoint striking activate a crit, which means 2x damage with maximized crit damage equips?

Crits/backstabs only multiply your weapon's base damage and the bonus damage from attributes.  Every other source of bonus damage--Tainted Blood, Exploit Weakness, everything else--does not get multiplied. =/

Both the dagger/dagger dex and dagger/dagger cunning builds only do about 23 damage via the weapon's base damage and attribute bonus.  So doubling that only adds another 23.

Modifié par Discobird, 20 novembre 2009 - 07:12 .

[Love-Buzz]

If you want pure dps, I would take the rogue. However, DW warriors can main tank - not quite as well as sword/shield warriors, but as long as you put some point in con, equip the proper kind of gear, and have a healer behind you (in case you are stunned/knocked down), they can hold aggro well (more hp+res means they can tank magic far better).

They also dish out good AoE damage when using 2 longswords with dual swipe and whirlwind, neither of which are hurt by the slower attack speed. My only warning would be trying to tank nightmare archer packs after the dex hotfix - I haven't tried this, as my DW warrior was prior to the hotfix.

Long story short, they are a balance between rogue dps and warrior tanking and they make better use of combat talents that aren't weapon speed based.

Modifié par Love-Buzz, 20 novembre 2009 - 07:12 .

[Cursek]

Some of the daggers' and other gear's % increase in back crit damage pretty much makes a rogue an automatic choice for me, imo.

[dannythefool]

The critical damage increase isn't really that good if it only increases the critical damage multiplier that basically doesn't take most bonus damage into account. But the rogue gets more ouf of it than the warrior; comparing a solo rogue to a solo warrior isn't really realistic, in a good party you will have other characters that can stun the rogue's opponent when the rogue doesn't have any of his own stunning abilities available. And in that situation, the rogue will crit on every single hit and the warrior won't.

I'm going to write the same thing here that I wrote in the rogue vs. warrior archer thread, if you want to be sturdy take a warrior, if you want the other benefits of a rogue character outside combat (e.g. if you want to steal from yellow or orange people), pick a rogue, otherwise it's pretty much a tie. One build is probably better in terms of dps, but damage doesn't really matter anyway, as long as you're not entirely gimped any build will work as soon as you figure out how combat works in this game...

[Korva]

The primary point in making any character is, "What would I enjoy playing?" The secondary point is, "What do I need on my team to play without constant frustration?" This is true "even" in MMOs no matter what the snot-nosed meter-wankers say, but especially in a single-player CRPG. You'll find advocates for (almost) any class, combat style and build, and they all have a point, not just the minmaxers.

So what do you enjoy more? Who will be on the character's team? Do you "need" a lockpicker, or don't you care about missing out what's in locked chests, or do you not mind the hassle of going over an already cleared area again with Leliana to unlock what your "true party" had to skip for the time being?

[Disciple1985]

I love my dw warrior... Berserker Reaver and dw trees maxed out with precise striking mixed in... I turn on berserk, fury, striking, and aura of pain... everything dies...So far ive played through the game with a mage and now this warrior and the difference was: DW warrior killed stuff by himself, often being the sole survivor and just tearing everything apart solo... vs mage who was heavy support/artillery.. I say go for it and if you dont like it, oh well. Its just a game

[Nooneyouknow13]

I find the berserker spec better overall for murdering enemies than anything rogues can do. Backstabbing just isn't that impressive compared to Berserk+Dual Striking for example. I wasn't having any issue hitting combined damage totals of 100+ by level 7 with tier 2-3 weapons with that combo.

Modifié par Nooneyouknow13, 20 novembre 2009 - 12:48 .