161 réponses à ce sujet

[Skilled Seeker]

Tree fox wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

I wouldn't sacrifice anyone on my crew or squad. Not over nameless, faceless npcs anyhow.

In fact, I will go so far as to unkill characters I killed in the SM to not have to sacrifice them.

That's a metagaming perspective. What about from a role playing perspective, if you were Shepard? Would you give Tali a brutal death to save more lives?

That is a role-playing perspective, if he were Shepard, he wouldn't sacrifice his crew for people he doesn't know.
Just because his answer isn't what you wanted to hear doesn't make it invalid.<_<

 He says he would unkill characters that died in the SM to not have to sacrifice them. This is known as metagaming. If you were RPing, you would live with the consequences since Shepard doesn't have a time machine to go back and correct it.

Also his first sentence speaks off nameless faceless NPCs, because that is what they are in our world. If he was Shepard they would be real living people and so again ,this is a metagaming perspective.

[Pride Demon]

I'm tired now, been a long day, so I'll be brief and go away... Besides I put my actual answer in the original, so...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

No because the thread isn't about whether or not you like Tali.

Actually idirectly it is... And that's the reason the original thread got locked...

If you put Tali specifically in the title you are making the decision emotionally engaging and meaningful only to those who like her, if one doesn't like her he/she won't care if she dies so their answer is going to be obvious...
In a debate with conditions such as these nothing is gained, it's wasted potential!

The same would be true if you had put any of the other characters in the title, that's why as I told you again and again, as Mesina told you again and again, you should have made the thread more "fandom neutral"...

@Mesina: you are often the voice of reason and I deeply respect your opinions, but I fear your words will not be heeded, as my own weren't in the original thread...

@Someone With Mass, The Big Bad Wolf, Alienmorph and everyone who likes Tali: avoid putting yourself in danger of repercussions by engaging in debates here... As the thread is now, it's not worth it...

Also to everyone, OP is NOT a troll, so don't accuse him of such, as it is now, he appears to be a flamer, or at least that's the modus operandi...

Still, I want to hope he'll turn this into something better...
So please, stop this, you don't like Tali, it's your right, but let go! Why risking an infraction for so little!?
Listen to me, please...

PS. @ GTerror: ManGiraffeDog is not a troll either, he is a spammer...

[Bachi1230]

Tree fox wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

I wouldn't sacrifice anyone on my crew or squad. Not over nameless, faceless npcs anyhow.

In fact, I will go so far as to unkill characters I killed in the SM to not have to sacrifice them.

That's a metagaming perspective. What about from a role playing perspective, if you were Shepard? Would you give Tali a brutal death to save more lives?

That is a role-playing perspective, if he were Shepard, he wouldn't sacrifice his crew for people he doesn't know.
Just because his answer isn't what you wanted to hear doesn't make it invalid.<_<

If you don't kill Tali, er I mean you're squad mate it's the wrong anwser;)

[SennenScale]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

I wouldn't sacrifice anyone on my crew or squad. Not over nameless, faceless npcs anyhow.

In fact, I will go so far as to unkill characters I killed in the SM to not have to sacrifice them.

That's a metagaming perspective. What about from a role playing perspective, if you were Shepard? Would you sacrifice Tali to save more lives?

It's a valid RP perspective, too. My Shepard will not sacrifice any of the people who've stood by her to save witless idiots. I couldn't have gotten as far as I have if not for Tali in particular, so why the hell should I want to kill her to save some idiot colonist I've never met? I wouldn't sacrifice a single sapient on my crew to save colonists. That's how my Shepard rolls.

[Skilled Seeker]

SennenScale wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

I wouldn't sacrifice anyone on my crew or squad. Not over nameless, faceless npcs anyhow.

In fact, I will go so far as to unkill characters I killed in the SM to not have to sacrifice them.

That's a metagaming perspective. What about from a role playing perspective, if you were Shepard? Would you sacrifice Tali to save more lives?

It's a valid RP perspective, too. My Shepard will not sacrifice any of the people who've stood by her to save witless idiots. I couldn't have gotten as far as I have if not for Tali in particular, so why the hell should I want to kill her to save some idiot colonist I've never met? I wouldn't sacrifice a single sapient on my crew to save colonists. That's how my Shepard rolls.

I see, you are entitled to that opinion. Your Shepard would neither be paragon nor renegade though, more like selfish evil. And I doubt Tali would forgive you so your relationship with her and pretty much everyone else who isn't evil would be damaged.

[Tree fox]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Tree fox wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

I wouldn't sacrifice anyone on my crew or squad. Not over nameless, faceless npcs anyhow.

In fact, I will go so far as to unkill characters I killed in the SM to not have to sacrifice them.

That's a metagaming perspective. What about from a role playing perspective, if you were Shepard? Would you give Tali a brutal death to save more lives?

That is a role-playing perspective, if he were Shepard, he wouldn't sacrifice his crew for people he doesn't know.
Just because his answer isn't what you wanted to hear doesn't make it invalid.<_<

 He says he would unkill characters that died in the SM to not have to sacrifice them. This is known as metagaming. If you were RPing, you would live with the consequences since Shepard doesn't have a time machine to go back and correct it.

Also his first sentence speaks off nameless faceless NPCs, because that is what they are in our world. If he was Shepard they would be real living people and so again ,this is a metagaming perspective.

The bolded is not metagaming, just a statement that shows he wouldn't sacrifice his crew for others. Just because he called them npcs doesn't mean he's metagaming, either.
His second statement simply says that he WOULD go back and bring back dead characters, not that he has.

A definition of metagaming: The act of using outside or previously gained knowledge within a gaming universe for personal gain or advantage.

[RaenImrahl]

@Skilled Seeker - you're obviously flame baiting with that title, and your juvenile explanation about the media doesn't wash. I've worked in the media, as a journalist for 15 years and a journalism educator for five. So I will lend you the benefit of my professional expertise and change the title.

Further, I am moving this thread to the Characters forum where it belongs.

For now, I'll let it remain active. If you think the OP is trolling, ignore the thread, don't post, and let it die on the vine. Anyone who goes on a trolling crusade will be banned.

If the OP tries to post a *third* topic on this subject, he too will be banned.

Those are the ground rules. Enjoy.

RI

[Bachi1230]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

I wouldn't sacrifice anyone on my crew or squad. Not over nameless, faceless npcs anyhow.

In fact, I will go so far as to unkill characters I killed in the SM to not have to sacrifice them.

That's a metagaming perspective. What about from a role playing perspective, if you were Shepard? Would you sacrifice Tali to save more lives?

It's a valid RP perspective, too. My Shepard will not sacrifice any of the people who've stood by her to save witless idiots. I couldn't have gotten as far as I have if not for Tali in particular, so why the hell should I want to kill her to save some idiot colonist I've never met? I wouldn't sacrifice a single sapient on my crew to save colonists. That's how my Shepard rolls.

I see, you are entitled to that opinion. Your Shepard would neither be paragon nor renegade though, more like selfish evil. And I doubt Tali would forgive you so your relationship with her and pretty much everyone else who isn't evil would be damaged.

"My thread isn't about hating on Talimancers
WHAT !? you'd actually not sacrifice, Tali? I mean your squadmate to the galaxy?  You are an evil selfish person who doesn't deserve to live and everyone will hate you espcially Tali, I mean your squad mates."

That is basically what you just said, how can you even pretend at this point this wasn't a thread made to provoke and put down people who like a certain character?

[ThatDancingTurian]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

So say a situation occurs where you can gain an advantage over the Reapers if you let Tali die. This advantage will allow you to save hundreds. If you choose not to take this opportunity, people will know, including the families of the deceased. Would you do it?

Now that you say 'to save hundreds' instead of 'to save billions', I'm going to change my answer to no. Shepard needs a good team in order to save those billions of lives that are at stake. Less than a thousand people is a drop in the bucket compared to what Shepard's trying to accomplish. Going out of her way and whittling down her squad of specialists for every handful of colonists is not going to get the job done, however guilty it might make her feel. Heck, Shepard's killed hundreds of mercs in ME2 alone. That's a lot of collateral damage, but not a lot when you consider what's at stake.

[Skilled Seeker]

It is selfish and evil to save 1 life and allow hundreds of other lives to die for the reasons SennenScale gave.

Modifié par Skilled Seeker, 04 juin 2011 - 10:38 .

[Tree fox]

If that one life can help you save thousands of people at the cost of hundreds, then is it selfish?

[SennenScale]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

It's a valid RP perspective, too. My Shepard will not sacrifice any of the people who've stood by her to save witless idiots. I couldn't have gotten as far as I have if not for Tali in particular, so why the hell should I want to kill her to save some idiot colonist I've never met? I wouldn't sacrifice a single sapient on my crew to save colonists. That's how my Shepard rolls.

I see, you are entitled to that opinion. Your Shepard would neither be paragon nor renegade though, more like selfish evil. And I doubt Tali would forgive you so your relationship with her and pretty much everyone else who isn't evil would be damaged.

Tali doesn't have to forgive me. She can spend the rest of her life angry at me.

Hey, my Shepard will volunteer her own life to save the witless idiots of the galaxy if push came to shove (and she had something close to a guarantee), just not her crew. She might be selfish as far as the Normandy is concerned, but I never pretended she was perfect. She's a bitter and flawed person.

And before more people call me a he, let it be known that I am a she.

[Skilled Seeker]

Tree fox wrote...

If that one life can help you save thousands of people at the cost of hundreds, then is it selfish?

'It is selfish and evil to save 1 life and allow hundreds of other lives to die for the reasons SennenScale gave.'

[Skilled Seeker]

SennenScale wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

It's a valid RP perspective, too. My Shepard will not sacrifice any of the people who've stood by her to save witless idiots. I couldn't have gotten as far as I have if not for Tali in particular, so why the hell should I want to kill her to save some idiot colonist I've never met? I wouldn't sacrifice a single sapient on my crew to save colonists. That's how my Shepard rolls.

I see, you are entitled to that opinion. Your Shepard would neither be paragon nor renegade though, more like selfish evil. And I doubt Tali would forgive you so your relationship with her and pretty much everyone else who isn't evil would be damaged.

Tali doesn't have to forgive me. She can spend the rest of her life angry at me.

Hey, my Shepard will volunteer her own life to save the witless idiots of the galaxy if push came to shove (and she had something close to a guarantee), just not her crew. She might be selfish as far as the Normandy is concerned, but I never pretended she was perfect. She's a bitter and flawed person.

And before more people call me a he, let it be known that I am a she.

So your Shep would be willing to give her own life, but not that of a crewmember? Interesting. Is there a limit however? What if billions of lives were at stake. Would you still save Tali? And if there is a limit, why does said arbitary limit exist?

[Tree fox]

I fail to see how saving people that are close to you instead of saving a few unnamed colonists is evil.

[Someone With Mass]

The whole "sacrifice your teammate to save the galaxy" concept is old, cliché and weak.

Mostly because there's really no believable reason why one should be forced to deal with such a situation.

[SennenScale]

Skilled Seeker wrote...
So your Shep would be willing to give her own life, but not that of a crewmember? Interesting. Is there a limit however? What if billions of lives were at stake. Would you still save Tali? And if there is a limit, why does said arbitary limit exist?

There may be a limit, but honestly? It would have to be a hell of a stacked deck and a lot of lives. She wouldn't know for sure until she was actually put in that situation. Be it Tali, Garrus, Kasumi, or whomever else.

It may be morally wrong, but Shepard may not even care at this point, given how she's been ignored, dismissed as insane, had her name dragged through the mud, the fact that the human colonists in particular deliberately left Alliance/Council space to go to Super-Duper Dangerous Pirate Land, being forced to work with the people who set up Akuze (Sole Survivor Shepard) by the hand of the woman she loves (Liara)  and being dragged into Kangaroo Court in ME3.

That said, I'm not sure she has the heart to doom the galaxy over sentimentality, but she's teetering dangerously close to it.

[Skilled Seeker]

I didn't say those at risk are colonists. They could be anyone.

What if the people at risk were VIPs? Say the leaders of the various factions of the galaxy have all met in one place and are now in danger of being destroyed unless Tali sacrifices herself.

[Skilled Seeker]

Tree fox wrote...

I fail to see how saving people that are close to you instead of saving a few unnamed colonists is evil.

1. I didn't say they are colonists.

2. They are not unnamed. They have names, family, friends, a life just as much as Tali. We're not talking about deranged criminals on Pergatory here.

[Tree fox]

yes, yes I would. If the leaders of factions all met up in one location instead of using FTL comms then they're idiots not worthy of being leaders to factions.

You should stop with your silly game.

[Skilled Seeker]

LOL I'll admit your post just cracked me up XD

But really, if the leaders die, this could have a tremendous impact on the war effort.

[Tree fox]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Tree fox wrote...

I fail to see how saving people that are close to you instead of saving a few unnamed colonists is evil.

1. I didn't say they are colonists.

2. They are not unnamed. They have names, family, friends, a life just as much as Tali. We're not talking about deranged criminals on Pergatory here.

To Shepard yes, they are unnamed. Shep doesn't know them personally so why should he care?

Also, that was my response to you telling me that the reasons of SennenScale were selfish and evil. 

Modifié par Tree fox, 04 juin 2011 - 11:19 .

[Skilled Seeker]

Tree fox wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Tree fox wrote...

I fail to see how saving people that are close to you instead of saving a few unnamed colonists is evil.

1. I didn't say they are colonists.

2. They are not unnamed. They have names, family, friends, a life just as much as Tali. We're not talking about deranged criminals on Pergatory here.

To Shepard yes, they are unnamed. Shep doesn't know them personally so why should he care?

Also, that was my response to you telling me that the reasons of SennenScale were selfish and evil. 

Yes Shep can take that attitude, and yes that attitude is 100% selfish and evil. Just because Shep doesn't know them personally, doesn't mean they don't exist or have a life of lesser worth than Tali's. SennenScale herself says that this decision is morally wrong.

[Tree fox]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

LOL I'll admit your post just cracked me up XD

But really, if the leaders die, this could have a tremendous impact on the war effort.

Because leaders can't be replaced or anything, right?

[Tree fox]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Tree fox wrote...

Skilled Seeker wrote...

Tree fox wrote...

I fail to see how saving people that are close to you instead of saving a few unnamed colonists is evil.

1. I didn't say they are colonists.

2. They are not unnamed. They have names, family, friends, a life just as much as Tali. We're not talking about deranged criminals on Pergatory here.

To Shepard yes, they are unnamed. Shep doesn't know them personally so why should he care?

Also, that was my response to you telling me that the reasons of SennenScale were selfish and evil. 

Yes Shep can take that attitude, and yes that attitude is 100% selfish and evil. Just because Shep doesn't know them personally, doesn't mean they don't exist or have a life of lesser worth than Tali's. SennenScale herself says that this decision is morally wrong.

I would say the life of a civilian is way more expendable than the life of a military tech.