28 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

Yea, I think that its actually an Arlathan ruin and not a Dwarven Thaig at all.

Look at what we know about Arlathan.

- It once spanned all across Thedas
- The Magisters conquered it and sank it into the earth
- The Elves lost almost all their history. We've never seen what the Arlathan architecture even looks like. Just ancient Tevinter
- The PT is apparently wrapped up in a lot of magic and the viel is thin. And the Elves claim to have had magic(including blood magic) long before the humans did.

And since the PT is very ancient it obviously predates a lot of things in Thedas. So it probably is as old as Arlathan itself.

And aside from a couple of golems, there isn't any sign of Dwarven occupation. But its also possible that Caradin wasn't the first person to make golems. Its also possible that Dwarves found the Thaig, occupied it briefly, but were all driven insane by the idol and killed each other. Just like Bartrand and his estate.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Arlathan was supposed to be a single city, was it not? There may have been Elven settlements throughout Thedas but it was only Arlathan that was supposedly sunk into the ground as I understand. I'm actually not sure if the Thaig is supposed to predate all dwarven records of their current civilization or not because there are actually records of the mainstream dwarves interaction with the inhabitants of the Primeaval Thaig.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 04 juin 2011 - 10:52 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Well from my memory about what's been Said, it spanned across Thedas.

http://dragonage.wik...ent_Elven_Armor

Well from what this says. Arlathan was probably one city of many. Or was just very very large.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 04 juin 2011 - 10:53 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Yea, I think that its actually an Arlathan ruin and not a Dwarven Thaig at all.

Look at what we know about Arlathan.

- It once spanned all across Thedas

Arlathan wasn't the whole of ancient elven civilization. It was I think the capital city (can't confirm this at the moment). And I remember one codex entry stating that all Elven cities were once linked by Eluvians (perhaps as communication ports?). Also the elven civilization seems to have been in decline even before Arlathan was sacked.

- The Magisters conquered it and sank it into the earth

I'm actually not so sure whether Arlathan was literally sunk underground. It may simply have been that the elves were driven underground - to seek refuge from the invading Tevinter army. The history of Cadash Thaig (during Witch Hunt) offers one such clue.

- The Elves lost almost all their history. We've never seen what the Arlathan architecture even looks like. Just ancient Tevinter

The thing with the Primeval Thaig is that it shows that Dwarves were perhaps once religious. My thinking is that those dwarves were perhaps abandoned/locked away, and so resorted to eating lyrium to survive. Now how is it that the modern dwarves went away from such religious beliefs is actually unknown. It is also not clear to me why modern dwarves, in general, don't practice magic.

- The PT is apparently wrapped up in a lot of magic and the viel is thin. And the Elves claim to have had magic(including blood magic) long before the humans did.

Apart from the fact that the lyrium there is "red," I don't think there is any evidence to link blood magic with that lyrium. I'll not discount that the lyrium "corruption," if one can call it that, was a result of blood magic and lyrium somehow coming together, but there is simply no evidence for it.

And since the PT is very ancient it obviously predates a lot of things in Thedas. So it probably is as old as Arlathan itself.

Maybe it even predates Arlathan. We apparently know as much about the ancient dwaves as we do about elves.

And aside from a couple of golems, there isn't any sign of Dwarven occupation. But its also possible that Caradin wasn't the first person to make golems. Its also possible that Dwarves found the Thaig, occupied it briefly, but were all driven insane by the idol and killed each other. Just like Bartrand and his estate.

The three or so golemns we find there is rather intriguing, I'll admit. But where is the evidence that the dwarves there killed each other? The codex entry simply notes that they might just have turned profane (because they ate their own gods - which was apparently the lyrium there).

[whykikyouwhy]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
The three or so golemns we find there is rather intriguing, I'll admit. But where is the evidence that the dwarves there killed each other? The codex entry simply notes that they might just have turned profane (because they ate their own gods - which was apparently the lyrium there).

If memory serves, there was mention of something like this (the dwarves killing each other) in Dragon Age: The Calling.

[Rifneno]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I'm actually not sure if the Thaig is supposed to predate all dwarven records of their current civilization or not because there are actually records of the mainstream dwarves interaction with the inhabitants of the Primeaval Thaig.

Either it does or they did a very poor job naming it.  Primeval pretty much means first, especially in the context of civilization.

Also, a can of gasoline for the fires of this theory: Remember that you find an extremely out of place ring seemingly of elven origin (Carved Ring of the Vhenadahl) in a chest in the Primeval Thaig.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

At first I figured it did predate recorded dwarven history, but later after the Codex entry on Valdasine and Bartrand's comments at the beginning of that section made me wonder if it was supposed to juts be an offshoot of dwarven civilization that somehow became different.

Either way though, I still have my doubts that Arlathan and the Primeval Thaig are directly connected. The Elves might not know much about their history but they usually still recognize enough pieces of their old lore to know if a place was once one of their ancient homes or not.

[TEWR]

http://social.biowar...4/index/7291020


plenty of information and theories on my old thread that died, so take what you want from there to keep this thread alive.

[WhiteKnyght]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

- The PT is apparently wrapped up in a lot of magic and the viel is thin. And the Elves claim to have had magic(including blood magic) long before the humans did.

Apart from the fact that the lyrium there is "red," I don't think there is any evidence to link blood magic with that lyrium. I'll not discount that the lyrium "corruption," if one can call it that, was a result of blood magic and lyrium somehow coming together, but there is simply no evidence for it.

Uh, did you miss the dozens of demons that inhabit that place? Shades aplenty and even a hunger demon.

Demons don't just pop up at random. They appear either by being summoned by blood magic, or if the veil is thinned which only happens via blood magic or excessive amounts of death(in the latter case that usually just makes undead appear).

Also there is the part where Anders said the idfol was magic and "Not the good kind"

And to my knowledge there are only three different kinds of magic. Mana Magic, Blood Magic, and Darkspawn Magic. And the darkspawn never thouched that place.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 05 juin 2011 - 03:16 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

If memory serves, there was mention of something like this (the dwarves killing each other) in Dragon Age: The Calling.

I haven't read those books. But can you please elaborate? You mean to say the Primeval Thaig dwarves or some thaig similar to it? And we are especially looking at what might have happened during ages past, a clue to what made the thaig to become sealed off (from the rest of dwarven civilization), why some are now searching for the thaigs, and so on.

Rifneno wrote...

Either it does or they did a very poor job naming it.  Primeval pretty much means first, especially in the context of civilization.

Also, a can of gasoline for the fires of this theory: Remember that you find an extremely out of place ring seemingly of elven origin (Carved Ring of the Vhenadahl) in a chest in the Primeval Thaig.

Or it simply means the oldest thaig that is actually known. Actually, it might also be inferred (from that ring) that ancient elves might have been there, but it is unclear whether that thaig itself is a part of Arlathan.

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

At first I figured it did predate recorded dwarven history, but later after the Codex entry on Valdasine and Bartrand's comments at the beginning of that section made me wonder if it was supposed to juts be an offshoot of dwarven civilization that somehow became different. 

There are some other things we can actually look at. Primeval Thaig is deeper underground than the other thaigs. And the codex entry on rock wraiths suggests that those dwarves were sealed off at some point - abandanoned, left to their own, perhaps? Or maybe they sealed themselves off? They seem to have survived all this while feeding on lyrium (strange as that sounds).

Either way though, I still have my doubts that Arlathan and the Primeval Thaig are directly connected. The Elves might not know much about their history but they usually still recognize enough pieces of their old lore to know if a place was once one of their ancient homes or not.

I believe I also have reasoanble doubts that the Primeval Thaig was a part of Arlathan. But it is quite possible that the fleeing elves took refuge in the far deep.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Uh, did you miss the dozens of demons that inhabit that place? Shades aplenty and even a hunger demon.

Demons don't just pop up at random. They appear either by being summoned by blood magic, or if the veil is thinned which only happens via blood magic or excessive amounts of death(in the latter case that usually just makes undead appear).

Also there is the part where Anders said the idfol was magic and "Not the good kind"

And to my knowledge there are only three different kinds of magic. Mana Magic, Blood Magic, and Darkspawn Magic. And the darkspawn never thouched that place.

First of all, I think you bring up good points (demons and thinning of the Veil) in defense of your position. But, just looking at what Anders said (I didn't bring him to the Deep Roads, but I saw the comments he made during Varric's quest), it seems he had reasonable doubts about the nature of the magic involved. That's all I'm saying. To me there is nothing conclusive that this is some amalgamation of blood magic and lyrium-based magic.

And what you list are those forms of magic that we know of at the moment. I'll bet there are things that we haven't discovered yet.

What is conclusive though, if we admit that those rock wraiths are indeed corrupted dwarves of old, is that those dwarves somehow were connected to the Fade, which is by itself something significant, implying perhaps that dwarves willingly might have given up that connection at some point; or that they can acquire it in the future.

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
http://social.biowar...4/index/7291020
plenty of information and theories on my old thread that died, so take what you want from there to keep this thread alive.

Thanks. I think we can use it.

[MichaelFinnegan]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

http://social.biowar...4/index/7291020

plenty of information and theories on my old thread that died, so take what you want from there to keep this thread alive.

WARNING: This might be heavily off-topic. What I'm actually looking for is some way to piece fragments of history together, and to make sense of some events in the game(s).

Ok, well, I sort of found what I was looking for (http://social.biowar...91020/3#7337592). It is interesting that I replayed this portion from DA:O just yesterday to know more about ancient elven magic.

Looking at a few things:
1. Magic of ancient elves:
 We do know more about the magic of ancient elves, apparently. We know that the phylactery contains blood (supposedly of that arcane warrior (AW)) - so perhaps it can be inferred that it was some form of blood magic? And we do know that the elves could channel their magic (the non-blood variety) for improving warrior prowess. If I remember correctly, we don't see this kind of magic elsewhere in Thedas. The AW specialization was supposed to die with the warden (although I'm not sure how that could have been since we see mages with AW specialization elsewhere in DAO - an oversight perhaps?).

2. Timelines and place:
The humans are already in Thedas. And they have built an underground palace (?), which elves also somehow coinhabit. We are actually looking at some kind of a resting ground for the slumbering elven elders. And we are somewhere in Ferelden, meaning that this perhaps isn't actually Arlathan - we see elsewhere in the lore that the elves were once spread throughout Thedas.

Speculating...
There is mention by some historians that the ancient elven civilization was in decline even before Arlathan was sacked. I had always assumed that the elves were in decline before the humans arrived - but perhaps it wasn't so. Maybe it just predates Tevinter. So are we to assume that the elves just started declining in numbers after humans started appearing on the scene? Is this the right way to look at this event? Did the war, violence (whatnot) have something to do with the desecration of the sanctity of this place; the desire for the humans to learn more about the secrets of immortality (wild speculation, sorry)? Certainly, there seems to be something else - other than elves and those humans.

The other thing that intrigues me is how the AW was able to chant himself into the Life Gem - leaving the body to enter into the gem. Should we somehow draw parallels with how Flemeth does this in DA2? The common point it seems to me is that the Dalish (Merrill) actually revives her back to her true form - implying that it was a kind of Dalish (and elven) blood magic. Simply put: the spirit was waiting for someone to rescue it - and so also it could be said of Flemeth.

On a side note: Does anyone have any theory about what bound the Keeper and/or the Dalish tribe in DA2 to help Flemeth? And what would have happened if the Gem was left where it was or if the warden kept it? I didn't take this route in DAO.

I don't intend to derail this topic, but these appear to me to be worth investigating/speculating on.

[whykikyouwhy]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

If memory serves, there was mention of something like this (the dwarves killing each other) in Dragon Age: The Calling.

I haven't read those books. But can you please elaborate? You mean to say the Primeval Thaig dwarves or some thaig similar to it? And we are especially looking at what might have happened during ages past, a clue to what made the thaig to become sealed off (from the rest of dwarven civilization), why some are now searching for the thaigs, and so on.

Unfortunately, I no longer have the book, so I can't provide you direct quotes. But, if I recall, the main characters are in the Deep Roads and stumble across a great hall filled with skeletons and corpses. They fall under the influence of a spirit or revenant, endure a battle of wills and are able to escape. In the process though, they come to the conclusion that something malevolent fell upon the dwarves there and that they were locked inside the hall, possiblt battling amongst themselves. I got the impression (still pulling from faint memories here) that one or several had been possessed.

So while not exactly about the thaig in quesion, it may hint at influence from more ancient powers. Though it may have been something from the Fade. Really, I was just pointing out the whole killing-each-other thing. It may be related, I'm not sure.

[MichaelFinnegan]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Unfortunately, I no longer have the book, so I can't provide you direct quotes. But, if I recall, the main characters are in the Deep Roads and stumble across a great hall filled with skeletons and corpses. They fall under the influence of a spirit or revenant, endure a battle of wills and are able to escape. In the process though, they come to the conclusion that something malevolent fell upon the dwarves there and that they were locked inside the hall, possiblt battling amongst themselves. I got the impression (still pulling from faint memories here) that one or several had been possessed.

So while not exactly about the thaig in quesion, it may hint at influence from more ancient powers. Though it may have been something from the Fade. Really, I was just pointing out the whole killing-each-other thing. It may be related, I'm not sure.

I see. I was merely responding to the suggestion that the dwarves who found the Primeval Thaig might have killed each other; for which I see no supporting evidence.

Still, the notion that possibly some or all of those dwarves might have been possessed is an interesting one, because mentally they are able to resist it better than other races. As to the killing each other part - they seem clearly adept at it in any case.

Anyway, let me see if I can get hold of that book - might be an interesting read.

Modifié par MichaelFinnegan, 05 juin 2011 - 05:35 .

[WhiteKnyght]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Unfortunately, I no longer have the book, so I can't provide you direct quotes. But, if I recall, the main characters are in the Deep Roads and stumble across a great hall filled with skeletons and corpses. They fall under the influence of a spirit or revenant, endure a battle of wills and are able to escape. In the process though, they come to the conclusion that something malevolent fell upon the dwarves there and that they were locked inside the hall, possiblt battling amongst themselves. I got the impression (still pulling from faint memories here) that one or several had been possessed.

So while not exactly about the thaig in quesion, it may hint at influence from more ancient powers. Though it may have been something from the Fade. Really, I was just pointing out the whole killing-each-other thing. It may be related, I'm not sure.

I see. I was merely responding to the suggestion that the dwarves who found the Primeval Thaig might have killed each other; for which I see no supporting evidence.

Well look at the insanity that went on in Bartrand's estate. The Idol makes people crazy and homicidal. Meredith is also proof of that.

There's your supporting evidence.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 05 juin 2011 - 10:25 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well look at the insanity that went on in Bartrand's estate. The Idol makes people crazy and homicidal. Meredith is also proof of that.

There's your supporting evidence.

Well, I suppose it wouldn't be entirely unlikely to assume some dwarves might have died there, probably even killed each other. The way Bartrand handled his servants almost seems like some kind of sacrificial ritual to me. But that doesn't explain those rock wraiths, which I believe is what we should be focusing on. The codex entry notes specifically that rock wraiths are dwarven spirits - one could question the validity of that entry, but that's another matter. I'll take it at face value for now.

[WhiteKnyght]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well look at the insanity that went on in Bartrand's estate. The Idol makes people crazy and homicidal. Meredith is also proof of that.

There's your supporting evidence.

Well, I suppose it wouldn't be entirely unlikely to assume some dwarves might have died there, probably even killed each other. The way Bartrand handled his servants almost seems like some kind of sacrificial ritual to me. But that doesn't explain those rock wraiths, which I believe is what we should be focusing on. The codex entry notes specifically that rock wraiths are dwarven spirits - one could question the validity of that entry, but that's another matter. I'll take it at face value for now.

Well the dwarven spirits in Ortan Thaig and the Dead Trenches didn't look rocky or wraithy to me.

And doesn't it? 

Dwarves find ruins and occupy them => Dwarves find idol, begin worshipping it as a god and go insane => Dwarves eighter perform sacrifical rituals or just kill each other in insanity => The souls of the sacrificed stay behind and become The Profane.

The fact that profane are there doesn't signify that the Thaig itself is dwarven in origin. Even if there were Thaigs before the Memories were started the architecture and literally everything is as far from dwarven as it can get.

In any case, what effect this will have on the future of DA is unclear. It might have no effect at all, or it could profoundly change the world, or it might just make one person somewhere say "Oh interesting" and that be it.

As for the idol itself. Its probably just a lyrium statue with a demon bound to it. Hence why it takes over the holder and corrupts them. The red hue could just be from someone using blood magic in its forging.

[MichaelFinnegan]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Well the dwarven spirits in Ortan Thaig and the Dead Trenches didn't look rocky or wraithy to me.

These wraiths aren't similar to those dwarven spirits we had seen earlier. Consider that these wraiths can be possessed by demons, implying that they're still alive. I think they may be immortal beings; otherwise they've become an entirely different kind of species, living in those thaigs.

And doesn't it? 

Dwarves find ruins and occupy them => Dwarves find idol, begin worshipping it as a god and go insane => Dwarves eighter perform sacrifical rituals or just kill each other in insanity => The souls of the sacrificed stay behind and become The Profane.

Unlikely, about the idol at least. Consider the Primeval Thaig codex: "Yet in this scavenger's belongings, amidst all the filth, there was a single idol. It was clearly of dwarven make, but not resembling any Paragon on record." One can question the validity of the entry itself, though.

What I find strange is the dwarves being religious in the conventional sense. The question becomes: did they have deities of their own from the start or did that simply change at some point in the past? Here is something interesting:
http://social.biowar...383900/4#385109

What do you make of it? The truth regarding the dwarves - whatever that is - is hidden quite well. My hunch is it is linked somehow with that thaig.

The fact that profane are there doesn't signify that the Thaig itself is dwarven in origin. Even if there were Thaigs before the Memories were started the architecture and literally everything is as far from dwarven as it can get.

I'll admit that it doesn't signify that thaig is dwarven in origin. All I'm saying is that there are alternative explanations - the dwarves were perhaps religious once, building temples; and somehow they changed later. That would also explain both the "architecture" and the idols. And I believe it is tied to the question why contemporary (in DA timeline, or perhaps from the time when the shaperate started recoding their history) dwarves don't go to Fade when they dream.

In any case, what effect this will have on the future of DA is unclear. It might have no effect at all, or it could profoundly change the world, or it might just make one person somewhere say "Oh interesting" and that be it.

Well, I couldn't really say. I guess we might find something more conclusively in DA3: pieces of the grander puzzle are still missing I think. But I really wish they make something more of the DA story than some outcome of the conflict between mages and templars, with the chantry thrown in. I mean the dwarves and elves are being given different histories from how we usually know of them, as far as I could tell, so there could be more to it than what we see: like what changed with the humans coming to Thedas from somewhere in the north ages ago, as things seem to be changing now with the Qunari presence. And what about Flemeth herself? Where does she fit into all this? It definitely has potential. 

As for the idol itself. Its probably just a lyrium statue with a demon bound to it. Hence why it takes over the holder and corrupts them. The red hue could just be from someone using blood magic in its forging.

Yes, you might be right. My own belief is that, since it is made of lyrium, the idol is holding memories (evil ones?), and something else makes those memories come "alive" so to speak, which one might very well assume to be the work of some form of blood magic.

[Mickespel]

Good pictures of the lyrium idol are hard to find but one can see that the humanoid figure on it does in no way resemble a dwarf. Once one depicts ones deities as humanoids, rather then, lets say an animal, said deities usually appear as the worshippers own race in idols and depictions. At least this is how it usually work in our world.

The humanoid on the lyrium idol have features more akin to those of an elf so what does that mean? Why would deity worshipping dwarfs make an idol with a humanoid looking like an elf?

[MichaelFinnegan]

Mickespel wrote...

Good pictures of the lyrium idol are hard to find but one can see that the humanoid figure on it does in no way resemble a dwarf. Once one depicts ones deities as humanoids, rather then, lets say an animal, said deities usually appear as the worshippers own race in idols and depictions. At least this is how it usually work in our world.

The humanoid on the lyrium idol have features more akin to those of an elf so what does that mean? Why would deity worshipping dwarfs make an idol with a humanoid looking like an elf?

A very interesting suggestion. And here's what appears to be a (sort of) good close-up shot of it:
http://images.wikia....ng_the_idol.jpg

First, to address your point, the idol definitely has a humanoid shape (the upper half, at least). It also doesn't appear to be a statue representing a dwarf. And, no, I don't think it's an elven figurine either (clue: notice the ear).

Now, my turn to take wild guesses. I think it's actually an idol of a human. It also has a slender form, which might mean it is one of a human female. Do I notice long hair? (I'll leave how else I arrived at that conclusion - that it looks like a female - to your imagination; or maybe it's just me imagining those two things ). Anyway, concentrating harder... does the idol also have a pointy thingy on its head? Hmm.... that is really interesting.

Going really wild now. Which two women in DA2 use that pointy "hat" - if you will? Meredith and ... Flemeth. Since it would appear to be rather idiotic to suggest that the idol "is" of either one of them, I will not. But what I'd guess at is it is perhaps a "symbol" of a, how shall I put it - a tradition, a religion, a cult? Perhaps an ancient one?

Coming back to your question regaring those ancient dwarves having worshipped idol(s) in that particular form - I have no clue. I had thought that such worship perhaps had more to do with the "magic" from the statue/lyrium itself, but I might be wrong.

So I agree with you - the form of the idol could have great significance. I don't know why I didn't think about taking a closer look earlier. But the rest of the idol doesn't make much sense to me. What does the lower half of it represent? Is it holding something in its hand - a kind of staff perhaps? And it almost appears to be growing or having formed out of the "red" lyrium.

I think I'm done looking at it now, for the moment.

Modifié par MichaelFinnegan, 07 juin 2011 - 09:51 .

[whykikyouwhy]

Tossing out some theories here...

Perhaps the form in the idol is not so much growing out of the lyrium, but is a partially completed sculpture (and grand speculation can arise as to why it was left unfinished).

The head does look a bit Flemeth-y. It could be some representation of Flemeth, but if so, I think she would have interjected herself in the idol story arc other than just the Sundermount-amulet quest. However, if Flemeth's hairstyle and crown/headband is indicative of a certain culture, then we may be seeing something either capturing (physically or spiritually, since the idol does have some power) an entity such as the Witch of the Wilds, or representing one such entity. So we may have intersecting origins with the thaig and Flemeth.

[WhiteKnyght]

Actually the proportions of the body is different than a humans. For one the neck is too long and its practically skin and bones. It reminds me a little of the Darkspawn Emissaries from DAII. And since they decided to make Emissaries into their own breed in DAII they must come from another race of beings.(Hurlocks = Human, Genlocks = Dwarven, Shrieks = Elven, Ogres = Kossith) Perhaps the Fex from Par Vollen?

[Kaiser Shepard]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Actually the proportions of the body is different than a humans. For one the neck is too long and its practically skin and bones. It reminds me a little of the Darkspawn Emissaries from DAII. And since they decided to make Emissaries into their own breed in DAII they must come from another race of beings.(Hurlocks = Human, Genlocks = Dwarven, Shrieks = Elven, Ogres = Kossith) Perhaps the Fex from Par Vollen?

Nah, the Emissaries in DA2 were just Shrieks, they're just not 'classified/named' as such. Just take one look at those ears.

[MichaelFinnegan]

Right. So I had a relook at that image. And I see other interesting things.

There are two humanoid figures in it - not one. And to my best guess, one is female, and the other one appears to be male. And the female form appears to be dragging, holding, choking, (or what?) the male one at her armpit. And I see something more: both of them seem to be coming out or forming from some sort of a portal (that green oval thing at the bottom), which seems in itself to be partly made out of "red" lyrium veins.

I am sure some very interesting theories can be formed from this. For instance, the portal-like thing could very well be some sort of Eluvian.

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Tossing out some theories here...

Perhaps the form in the idol is not so much growing out of the lyrium, but is a partially completed sculpture (and grand speculation can arise as to why it was left unfinished).

I think both the forms are appearing out of something, or the female one appears to be dragging (or summoning perhaps?) the male one from it. Also, I don't think the idol was unfinished.

The head does look a bit Flemeth-y. It could be some representation of Flemeth, but if so, I think she would have interjected herself in the idol story arc other than just the Sundermount-amulet quest. However, if Flemeth's hairstyle and crown/headband is indicative of a certain culture, then we may be seeing something either capturing (physically or spiritually, since the idol does have some power) an entity such as the Witch of the Wilds, or representing one such entity. So we may have intersecting origins with the thaig and Flemeth.

I'm not so sure it's actually a representation of Flemeth. More so, I think Flemeth may be a representation (or form, if you will) of something the same idol or another such idol might represent (if that makes sense). Anyway, the reason why I brought Flemeth (and Meredith) into all this is simply because of the similarity of the head bands. I think both are related to it, not just Flemeth, although the type of relationship could very well be different.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Actually the proportions of the body is different than a humans. For one the neck is too long and its practically skin and bones. It reminds me a little of the Darkspawn Emissaries from DAII. And since they decided to make Emissaries into their own breed in DAII they must come from another race of beings.(Hurlocks = Human, Genlocks = Dwarven, Shrieks = Elven, Ogres = Kossith) Perhaps the Fex from Par Vollen?

Yes, I noticed the skin and bones thing, and I also think it's pretty weird. I don't have an explanation for it at the moment. The neck I'm not so sure. I simply arrived at a human form by elimination - based on what I already knew. And I didn't even know there was a species called Fex. As for the darkspawn emissaries in DA2, I agree with the above poster.

[WhiteKnyght]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Actually the proportions of the body is different than a humans. For one the neck is too long and its practically skin and bones. It reminds me a little of the Darkspawn Emissaries from DAII. And since they decided to make Emissaries into their own breed in DAII they must come from another race of beings.(Hurlocks = Human, Genlocks = Dwarven, Shrieks = Elven, Ogres = Kossith) Perhaps the Fex from Par Vollen?

Nah, the Emissaries in DA2 were just Shrieks, they're just not 'classified/named' as such. Just take one look at those ears.

Um thats actually wrong. I asked Mike Laidlaw once about why the Darkspawn were redesigned and why Genlocks and Shrieks were gone in DAII. The answer he gave me was that they weren't gone, "they just haven't appeared yet".

If Emessaries were Shrieks he would have said so instead of saying that they just have yet to show themselves.

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
Yes, I noticed the skin and bones
thing, and I also think it's pretty weird. I don't have an explanation
for it at the moment. The neck I'm not so sure. I simply arrived at a
human form by elimination - based on what I already knew. And I didn't
even know there was a species called Fex. As for the darkspawn
emissaries in DA2, I agree with the above poster.

Watch that video Q&A with David Gaider about Dragon Age. he says theres a fifth race that live in Par Vollen called the Fex and they just don't get out much.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Fex

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 09 juin 2011 - 09:05 .