175 réponses à ce sujet

[Kandid001]

I just want it to be followable and meaningful without playing DA2, so that people won't be obligated to buy it.

[In Exile]

Bleh, the story in DA:O was by far the weakest part of the game. It was a plot (it was coherent, generally no major holes, aside from Loghain knowing who the Warden was and that the Warden survived Ostagar) but the darkspawn were the least interesting possible antagonist and the game was basically static - the whole plot was about raising an army, with isolated filler content.

DA2 takes exactly this same weak story, but adds a different dressing to it as a backdrop. Suddenly, the flaws of this type of plot are evident. And it's emphasized by the general structural problems with the plot. But it isn't fundamentally different than DA2.

DA3 needs an entirely different approach; it needs tight narration and 3 clean and consistent arcs. Maybe Jade Empire. It's the best structural job Bioware's ever done.

ETA: 

fixed type that made second sentence incoherent

Modifié par In Exile, 06 juin 2011 - 06:17 .

[Anathemic]

In Exile wrote...

Bleh, the story in DA:O was by far the weakest part of the game. It wasn't a plot (it was coherent, generally no major holes, aside from Loghain knowing who the Warden was and that the Warden survived Ostagar) but the darkspawn were the least interesting possible antagonist and the game was basically static - the whole plot was about raising an army, with isolated filler content.

DA2 takes exactly this same weak story, but adds a different dressing to it as a backdrop. Suddenly, the flaws of this type of plot are evident. And it's emphasized by the general structural problems with the plot. But it isn't fundamentally different than DA2.

DA3 needs an entirely different approach; it needs tight narration and 3 clean and consistent arcs. Maybe Jade Empire. It's the best structural job Bioware's ever done.

There was a plot... else we will have no story...

DA:O is a cliched story, I agree. But DA:O is also an epic, no not the term that everyone likes throwing around when something is 'KEWL', but the actual literary definition. DA:O fulfills the criteria of epic perfectly and people who understand what epics are will truly recognize that in DA:O.

DA2 on the other hand, I don't even know what it is. The plot is all jangled up and you don't really get into it until Act 3 (think it was 2) where the mage/templar conflict begins to surface. They could've just scrapped Act 1 altogether and still had the main story going on.

[D.M]

I think DA3 will be the story which mixed up with Hawke and the Hero of Ferelden since seekers are trying to find them all.

[In Exile]

Anathemic wrote...

There was a plot... else we will have no story...

That was a typo. I meant was. Fixed it.

DA:O is a cliched story, I agree. But DA:O is also an epic, no not the term that everyone likes throwing around when something is 'KEWL', but the actual literary definition. DA:O fulfills the criteria of epic perfectly and people who understand what epics are will truly recognize that in DA:O.

It had an epic scope, but it didn't feel epic. It was, if anything, anti-epic. It was the sort of epic where you spin your wheels the entire time, and all of the challenges you overcome are entirely meaningless. But this is essentially the Tolkien ideal of an epic, which (IMO) most fantasy writers just missing the point.

Look at historical epics - they don't centre on a hero who tries to keep the world exactly the same. DA:O is a triumph of keeping everything exactly the same. It's almost Elizabethan, really

DA2 on the other hand, I don't even know what it is. The plot is all jangled up and you don't really get into it until Act 3 (think it was 2) where the mage/templar conflict begins to surface. They could've just scrapped Act 1 altogether and still had the main story going on.

It's just the Biware standard since, really, ME1. You could scrap everthing between Ostagar and the Final Battle in DA:O and had about the same main story. You could scrap everything betweeen the Citadel and Ilos and have the same main story. That's just how Bioware rolls since KoTOR, where you could scrap everything between Dantoine and the Star Forge.

The only plot that didn't have as much tangential fluff in it was Jade Empire.

[Anathemic]

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

There was a plot... else we will have no story...

That was a typo. I meant was. Fixed it.

DA:O is a cliched story, I agree. But DA:O is also an epic, no not the term that everyone likes throwing around when something is 'KEWL', but the actual literary definition. DA:O fulfills the criteria of epic perfectly and people who understand what epics are will truly recognize that in DA:O.

It had an epic scope, but it didn't feel epic. It was, if anything, anti-epic. It was the sort of epic where you spin your wheels the entire time, and all of the challenges you overcome are entirely meaningless. But this is essentially the Tolkien ideal of an epic, which (IMO) most fantasy writers just missing the point.

Look at historical epics - they don't centre on a hero who tries to keep the world exactly the same. DA:O is a triumph of keeping everything exactly the same. It's almost Elizabethan, really

DA2 on the other hand, I don't even know what it is. The plot is all jangled up and you don't really get into it until Act 3 (think it was 2) where the mage/templar conflict begins to surface. They could've just scrapped Act 1 altogether and still had the main story going on.

It's just the Biware standard since, really, ME1. You could scrap everthing between Ostagar and the Final Battle in DA:O and had about the same main story. You could scrap everything betweeen the Citadel and Ilos and have the same main story. That's just how Bioware rolls since KoTOR, where you could scrap everything between Dantoine and the Star Forge.

The only plot that didn't have as much tangential fluff in it was Jade Empire.

Ahhh I see thank you for editing the typo.

I'm not saying DA:O is an awesome epic, just an epic. What I mean by this is a story in which a hero faces a challenge and the story centers on overcoming that challenge. Think Beowulf or The Odessy.

[In Exile]

Anathemic wrote...
Ahhh I see thank you for editing the typo.

I'm not saying DA:O is an awesome epic, just an epic. What I mean by this is a story in which a hero faces a challenge and the story centers on overcoming that challenge. Think Beowulf or The Odessy.

If you widen the definition that much, then even DA2 fits. The plot (as in, the general outline of events) definetly fits an epic. The problem is all execution.

[BroBear Berbil]

Continue from DA2 of course. I just hope that DA3 also has plot threads from the books and Origins because, honestly, I played DA2 once and that was all it took for me to get sick of the constant mage/templar tensions.

Give me Flemeth & Morrigan.
Give me darkspawn.
Give me political intrigue.

As far as Hawke goes I didn't really connect with the character. I wouldn't mind if he/she wasn't the protagonist of DA3 but that seems unlikely. I'm sure whether it's DLC or an expansion Hawke will encounter some kind of threat which he simply cannot ignore which will shape his motivations in DA3.

Modifié par OnionXI, 06 juin 2011 - 06:39 .

[Anathemic]

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
Ahhh I see thank you for editing the typo.

I'm not saying DA:O is an awesome epic, just an epic. What I mean by this is a story in which a hero faces a challenge and the story centers on overcoming that challenge. Think Beowulf or The Odessy.

If you widen the definition that much, then even DA2 fits. The plot (as in, the general outline of events) definetly fits an epic. The problem is all execution.

Ahh you got me there. Personally I consider DA:O as average/sub-par epic whereas DA2 is not an epic at all. In DA:O you become the hero overcoming the obstacles set before you, all in relation to complete your main objective. In DA2... said epic doesn't start until Act 2/3ish? And even then you still don't have a complete grasp on what's going on.

[Zanallen]

DA 2 is hard to classify. It has the rags to riches story that is common in epics, but Hawke doesn't really change anything. He just gets pulled along. But it isn't exactly a tragedy either, nor a comedy. I guess, if I had to label the overall plot, it would be some kind of epic tragedy mix.

[In Exile]

Anathemic wrote..
Ahh you got me there. Personally I consider DA:O as average/sub-par epic whereas DA2 is not an epic at all. In DA:O you become the hero overcoming the obstacles set before you, all in relation to complete your main objective. In DA2... said epic doesn't start until Act 2/3ish? And even then you still don't have a complete grasp on what's going on.

No, epic (technically) starts from the prologue. Think about it - what awesome thing does Hawke slay just to get to Kirkwall? Varric even remarks on it. Think about what Hawke finds in the deep roads, or what Hawke has to kill to make it out of there. All of that falls under the aegis of epic.

Fantasy is a genre lends itself to epic. TW2 was epic. TW was epic. BG? Epic. BG2? Double epic. 

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a fantasy RPG that wasn't an epic.

What DA:O did was empower the player, and DA2 did the opposite. You felt like an awesome hero in DA:O, whereas in DA2 there's really just the Act II endgame.

[In Exile]

Zanallen wrote...

DA 2 is hard to classify. It has the rags to riches story that is common in epics, but Hawke doesn't really change anything. He just gets pulled along. But it isn't exactly a tragedy either, nor a comedy. I guess, if I had to label the overall plot, it would be some kind of epic tragedy mix.

Neither does the Warden. Everywhere, it's a keep the status quo victory. The closest you get to real change is Orzammar or the Brecilian Forest.

[What?]

Oops. Wrong tab I clicked on. Ignore this post.

Modifié par VictorianTrash, 06 juin 2011 - 07:01 .

[Bio-Age]

Definately Origins - I want to learn what happened with my Boon, the Architect, where the Eluvian leads, Morrigan's child, King Alistar's rule, and the trials and tribulations the wardens endure while they rebuild their strength.

[dsl08002]

I hope that DA3 will follow the character from DAO, during the playtrough of DA2 I always thought to myself "but what happend to the hero of ferelden". There for I hope that in DA3 you will be playing your character from the origins. perhaps it will be a story how the character from origins gets conflicted to his duty as a grey warden and as a native ferelden because during the DA2 you encounterd grey wardens who were on a mission. However feleden is in turmoil after DAO if you had read the epilouge and then it is the threat of the Qunari and orlais.

So perhaps the story is beginning with the Character from origins six months before the ending in DA2. You get your mission as a grey warden and you start with that and then you get the news from kirkwall that mages turned on the templars and the templars are instead of controlling the mages are in fact trying to exterminate them. then by contacting king alistair you learn that Orlais is about to invade Ferelden so you travel there in order to either stop it or at least by some time,

[Derengard]

It's obviously gonna be both, and it better should be, as I've heard the events of DA2 impacted the setting as a whole, so it would just be consistent. As to whether the hero's gotta be Hawke or someone else, I would think someone else would be more interesting. It wouldn't necessarily be better, but Hawke doesn't make an interesting impression on me as a whole. But that's all secondary to having a good premise and entry point to the story (note story, not cheap "dynamic battle" demo).

Modifié par Derengard, 06 juin 2011 - 02:03 .

[Nozybidaj]

I wanted DA2 to continue from DA:O let alone DA3.  Heck I wanted ME2 to continue from ME1 as well, lot of disappointment around here for me lately.

As for DA3, I don't really care now.  Considering how poorly DA2 has sold I'm not expecting much from it, assuming it even gets made.

[andar91]

I want a new story/protagonist. Gameplay wise, I'd like DA3 to find a happy medium between Origins and 2.

[the_one_54321]

Flayling wrote...
Personally I want to see Dragon Age 3 continue where Dragon Age Origins left off. Then just pretend Dragon Age 2 never existed.

This echos my opinion. And I'm not saying that for another opportunity to bash the game or anything like that. There were some serious structural problems with the narrative of this game that slapped my DA:O playthrough in the face. I really want to just forget the DAII happened at all.

[fchopin]

I don’t care where they continue from i just want a good game that makes sense (no plot holes) and has good gameplay.

[Davasar]

DAO was Epic, and felt such.

As to forgetting past sequels: Hollywood does it all the time and appreciative fans like it when a new story retcons a bad story, or deletes a bad story entirely.

There can be no better way to apologize to the fans then in this manner.

A new protagonist is fine.,..as long as I GET TO CHOOSE MY RACE and there are options other then human.

Modifié par Davasar, 06 juin 2011 - 04:09 .

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Anathemic wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Bleh, the story in DA:O was by far the weakest part of the game. It wasn't a plot (it was coherent, generally no major holes, aside from Loghain knowing who the Warden was and that the Warden survived Ostagar) but the darkspawn were the least interesting possible antagonist and the game was basically static - the whole plot was about raising an army, with isolated filler content.

DA2 takes exactly this same weak story, but adds a different dressing to it as a backdrop. Suddenly, the flaws of this type of plot are evident. And it's emphasized by the general structural problems with the plot. But it isn't fundamentally different than DA2.

DA3 needs an entirely different approach; it needs tight narration and 3 clean and consistent arcs. Maybe Jade Empire. It's the best structural job Bioware's ever done.

There was a plot... else we will have no story...

DA:O is a cliched story, I agree. But DA:O is also an epic, no not the term that everyone likes throwing around when something is 'KEWL', but the actual literary definition. DA:O fulfills the criteria of epic perfectly and people who understand what epics are will truly recognize that in DA:O.

DA2 on the other hand, I don't even know what it is. The plot is all jangled up and you don't really get into it until Act 3 (think it was 2) where the mage/templar conflict begins to surface. They could've just scrapped Act 1 altogether and still had the main story going on.

I am curious, what is an Epic by your definition? But I gotta agree with Exile here, Origins never had a great story to begin with and considering that it come from the same company that was responsible for games like Baldur's Gate 2 it was a bit of a let down.

[the_one_54321]

In Exile wrote...
Bleh, the story in DA:O was by far the weakest part of the game. It wasn't a plot (it was coherent, generally no major holes, aside from Loghain knowing who the Warden was and that the Warden survived Ostagar) but the darkspawn were the least interesting possible antagonist and the game was basically static

I have no idea which game you're talking about.

[ironysteeth]

well, I think my biggest problem is that da2 feels like a sidestory. where in DAO it introduced the DA world, and went on to tell how the warden saved it, the biggest contribution that DA2 had to that world was another look at the mage/templar controversy. It wasnt bad for a city adventure game. But it just didnt feel like it had as grand a scope as DAO did. if we follow the treck with how DA2 ended, I be guessing someone does find who she's looking for, and it will be revealed why she's looking for that person.And I am curious why she is looking. And what IS a seeker? Is it an official job title? or is itjust something varric decided to call his "interviewer?" I guess I'm just hoping that DA3 will take its story cue from DAO in the sense that it will tell us more about the DA Universe as a whole, rather than just a particular region of this world like DA2 did.

[macrocarl]

Hawke would be great! The mage/ templar issue needs more filling out. I think it is *much* more dynamic than the Blight thing. Lot of potential. Not to mention the whole mysterious ending........ I thought that was great but it MOWR! Plus more on that will undoubtedly illuminate us on our Warden as well........ So my votes all for DA2.