148 réponses à ce sujet

[Lethys1]

Honestly, the combat changes were not really that bad, but there were some definite flaws.  Here's what I liked and disliked about it: (PC Player BTW)

Liked: 

Most of the things I liked in the game were related to the mages.

1) Mages doing melee looked pretty damn cool.  Honestly, it wasn't great damage and wasn't what you're "supposed" to do with mages but I still thought it was pretty awesome hitting a guy with a staff like that. Mage combat animations are now far more interesting and they are now something my eyes watch instead of avoid like in DA:O. 

2) Rogue animations also are unique, with the hopping and bopping all over the battlefield.  Warriors aren't bad, either, except the swords could look like they had a bit more weight to them than they do in DA2.

3) Liked a lot of the AoE attacks in-game, particularly the Elemental path of magic with the firestorm and the ice flying everywhere.  Seemed almost a little too powerful, but that was a good thing.

4) I kind of liked the new talent trees.  They were talked about a lot before release and I actually had no problem with them.  I especially liked how the companions were given specialties because I always had an issue wondering whether the game intended for a party rogue to be an archer or a melee specialist, for example.  This system made deciding on that much easier.

5) Overall, felt like it was the special cousin of the DA:O combat system rather than a brother or sister; related, but not really that close to it, and not as intelligent.  I liked how I could jump right in and know exactly what I was doing.


Disliked:

1) The way that enemies don't stop spawning, and the lack of difficulty balance.  It's frustrating at particular points in the game where the difficulty is simply not in line with the rest of the game because of this.  There are times that seem way too easy because of not enough mobs and times when it feels like the stream of mobs has me playing on Insane difficutly.  It gets really bothersome when I play a game on Hard all game, run into one fight, switch difficulty to normal and STILL have a hard time with it.

2) Stealth enemies have too much health based on how much damage they do.  The Commanders and Lieutenant enemy mobs are like tanks in that they don't do a lot of damage and have a lot of heatlh, which is fine.  But the Mage Hunter mobs can go stealth, always target caster or highest DPS first, and almost always do a one-shot on that party member.  They are difficult to keep stunned and have as much health as the tank enemies.  This has to be remedied with either taking away stealth enemies or severely reducing their health.

3) No tactical camera on PC was a system shock, literally.  I really wanted to scroll out lots of times and was prevented from doing so.  I scrolled out many, many times during DA:O, especially on harder fights.  I also just enjoy that vantage point more at times.  Since this style of camera was so often utilized by Bioware previously, it really felt foreign. 

4) Healing was trivialized.  It is far too weak.  This made me a sad panda, to see that chugging health potions was the way Bioware designed the game to be played.  All healing is essentially a joke compared to DA: Awakening when the Spirit Healer spec was awesome.

5) As a tank, I felt like getting aggro away from the other characters was a lot more difficult than it should have been.  Instead of just a threat take-away skill, how about we get a massive threat building skill which uses a minimal amount of energy but has a decently long cool-down?  That way, we can keep using it whenever it pops up as ready.  In this game, as a tank, I would say that threat was the most annoying issue for me.  All the enemies were just all over the battlefield in a frenzy.


In conclusion, I would be totally fine if they kept this combat system and did a few things:

1) Get rid of enemy imbalances with stealth enemies and streaming spawns.
2) Add tactical camera.
3) Buff healing spells a lot.
4) Balance mage talent trees a little more.
5) Make tanks more effective at getting aggro, reduce the amount other classes can get without having to get extra skills for that purpose.

Modifié par Lethys1, 05 juin 2011 - 06:44 .

[Akka le Vil]

Lethys1 wrote...

Honestly, the combat changes were not really that bad

Yes they were. It's over-the-top and hack'n'slash.

[Droma]

that is your opinion and he has a differenz one. where is your problem? annoying people who allways think their opinion is the only real one and every other opinion is wrong.

[Dormiglione]

I like both combat system. DAO and DA2 have different combat system, each of them had his cons and pros. What i dislike are the waves that keep spawning from nowhere. The combat system itself is good.

[Akka le Vil]

Droma wrote...

that is your opinion and he has a differenz one. where is your problem? annoying people who allways think their opinion is the only real one and every other opinion is wrong.

He gives his opinion, I give mine.
What is YOUR problem ?

[Droma]

the problem is you quoted him saying no combat wasn't that bad and said "yes it was" impling his opinion is wrong. post something like "i didn't like it because ..." or just "i didn't like it" and there isn't any problem.

[Akka le Vil]

Droma wrote...

the problem is you quoted him saying no combat wasn't that bad and said "yes it was" impling his opinion is wrong.post something like "i didn't like it because ..." or just "i didn't like it" and there isn't any problem.

How exactly is saying "yes it was that bad" somehow more assertive than saying "no it wasn't that bad" ?

[Theagg]

Well, with the latest patch 1.03, assassins have had their health reduced (as have commanders and lieutenants) but you still can't interrupt their invincible stealth back flip move.

So that partly addresses one of your concerns. The health of mobs have gone up though, as has their damage they deal. Enemy archers therefore are now more dangerous. So beware

On dealing with waves, once you have your build sorted out correctly and your party tactics working well, there really isn't any need to constantly be changing difficulty levels. In fact, even on nightmare level there is no need to resort to cheesy tactics (running away and pulling the first wave bit by bit etc), they can be dealt with on the spot in most cases.

So some of the complaints against waves of enemies that resort to comments about needing to use cheesy tactics to get through these are unfounded really. In those cases the problem is not the waves but the player not being set up to deal with them.

Again, with patch 1.03, tanks do seem to generate more threat (with Shield defence)

Yep, I certainly want full tactical camera view back. and yes, overall the animations are far superior to what they were especially for mages. The Origins mage visual were terrible by comparison. Who can forget that awful tentative prodding motion that accompanied basic staff attacks. And the disco shuffle.(and that refers to the one arm in the air one foot forward...repeat, dance move, so 1970's !)

Modifié par Theagg, 05 juin 2011 - 01:47 .

[bEVEsthda]

DA2-combat was just fine except for the animations. I definitely liked the feel of more responsivity, if that was actually real or not. Laidlaw did that part well.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 05 juin 2011 - 11:11 .

[Ausstig]

DA2 combat was leagues above DA:O. Soooooo much better, the DA:O system was fine in KOTOR but I liked having fights where my characters don't shuffle into place and take 5-10 secs to attack, any fight in DA:O that had more then 3 enemies, was a cluster **** with everyone shuffling about. NO say what you will about story, but the combat in DA2 was fine, though the explosions may be a bit much.

[Sidney]

The combat was mostly the same. Idiots who talk about "hack n' slash" are, well, idiots. The mechanisms were the same. After tha changes from ME1 to ME2 I was glad to see it was still a point n' click, sleect a skill and it is used type of combat system.

What stunk out loud in DA2 were the waves in some settings - the "drop from the sky" locations- but when foes came from down other hallways and doors it actually felt pretty cool.

I agree that stealth foes are overpowered - although I haven't seen the changes on the most recent patch. Rogues/assassins became my top priority even over mages.

Mage AI is wrong for foes when they consistently pull up barrier and allow you to slaughter their minions who have no support and then destroy them when they are also unsupported.

Still overall the speed and fluidity is a huge gain. The CCC work well to add value to all the classes and tactics. The new combat treees have a variety of skills that are useful. I thought the support mages really gained in DA2.

Healing cooldowns for both potions and spells didn't bother me overall. There were times in a couple of boss fights I wanted to have less cooldown but boss fights should be annoying.

[Akka le Vil]

Sidney wrote...

The combat was mostly the same. Idiots who talk about "hack n' slash" are, well, idiots.

No, they are simply people who actually have eyes, a brain and are able to realize just how cartoonish the fighting has begun.
Not that everything is bad, there IS some good points - like, yes, more fluidity, less shuffling and more responsiveness.

But there was no need to go all console comic-book fighting to get these improvements. We could have done without the ridiculous animations (paper-weight weapons that are wildly swung around, ninja templars, dancing mages, clownish rogues), laughable exploding bodies, fighting designed around the use of AoE without FF, lore-contradicting spells, and more than anything, the GODAWFUL AMOUNT of fighting every two seconds that seems like a rampant disease in the whole game.

And the waves, sure, but about everyone is agreeing on this last point.

[ItsTheTruth]

Long cooldowns, silly animations, No tactical camera, waves of brainless mobs falling from the sky, one cave...

DA2 gives cheap sequels a bad name.

[Anathemic]

First off rogues do not 'hop and bop' that's not the purpose of the rogue. A rogue is take down with few hits as possible, why? Because it's a freakin' rogue, fragile as hell. 'Hopping and bopping' is contradiction to the aspect of a rogue.

Mages do not melee... with staves. Yeah a staff can be used as a weapon (martial arts whoo) but a mage's staff? That's pushing it. One, it's weighted at the end, so the weighted part is more likely to break off with enough tension. Secondly, as a mage staff, it's likely to be light as you don't see mages on steroids here, again adding to the 'weighted end' problem. And thirdly, this may not apply but I always saw mage staves to be super fragile and hollow in the inside, think wands from Harry Potter, like a core inside or somethin'.

[Mecher3k]

I love how the people who are defending teh DA2 combat system, obviously sucked in DA:O.

From 6 +hours after my rogue archer DA:O playthrough the fights were getting faster and faster. in DA2 it's the complete opposite, because of the absurd amount of health mobs have and the seemlying never ending waves.

And yet these same people talk about how the combat is faster in DA2, lmfao.

[Theagg]

Mecher3k wrote...

I love how the people who are defending teh DA2 combat system, obviously sucked in DA:O.

From 6 +hours after my rogue archer DA:O playthrough the fights were getting faster and faster. in DA2 it's the complete opposite, because of the absurd amount of health mobs have and the seemlying never ending waves.

And yet these same people talk about how the combat is faster in DA2, lmfao.

On what do you base the presumption we sucked ?

[Mecher3k]

Theagg wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

I love how the people who are defending teh DA2 combat system, obviously sucked in DA:O.

From 6 +hours after my rogue archer DA:O playthrough the fights were getting faster and faster. in DA2 it's the complete opposite, because of the absurd amount of health mobs have and the seemlying never ending waves.

And yet these same people talk about how the combat is faster in DA2, lmfao.

On what do you base the presumption we sucked ?

All of you fools think DA:O's combat was slow, it was the complete opposite compared to DA2.

Sales back me up, you lose, give up.

[hexaligned]

I think it was balanced better, the animations were annoying and silly however. The ninja drops from orbiting space platforms, should have been laughed off of the dev table as soon as they were suggested.

[Monica83]

the combat isn't bad per se if you remove:

Silly jerkish manga animations
Silly jerkish over the top ability
Silly teleport charging and backstab
Ennemy spawning from the sky
Ennemy with 7124 hp
Silly stupid body explosion

Modifié par Monica83, 05 juin 2011 - 06:18 .

[Kangaxx628]

Nicest things I can say about DA2 combat, not auto hit on Ogre's ram and no scattershot for archers to spam. Given that you had to waste two spell points to make any of the mage's spells useful, I prefer the DA:O combat system warts and all. Oh and still hate the uninterruptible escape into stealth and back flips in full plate.