148 réponses à ce sujet

[Anathemic]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

First off rogues do not 'hop and bop' that's not the purpose of the rogue. A rogue is take down with few hits as possible, why? Because it's a freakin' rogue, fragile as hell. 'Hopping and bopping' is contradiction to the aspect of a rogue.

Mages do not melee... with staves. Yeah a staff can be used as a weapon (martial arts whoo) but a mage's staff? That's pushing it. One, it's weighted at the end, so the weighted part is more likely to break off with enough tension. Secondly, as a mage staff, it's likely to be light as you don't see mages on steroids here, again adding to the 'weighted end' problem. And thirdly, this may not apply but I always saw mage staves to be super fragile and hollow in the inside, think wands from Harry Potter, like a core inside or somethin'.

This might just be my inner mage talking, as I love the mage class, but dude, it's a video game. Does it have to be realistic? The answer to that question is no. Staves with blades = awesomesauce.

Spear shooting out storms of fire. Your argument is invalid.

Huh games such as The Witcher, Legend of Zelda, Asassin's Creed, Oblivion, Morrowind, Call of Duty, LA Noire, would like a word with you

[Mecher3k]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

I love how the people who are defending teh DA2 combat system, obviously sucked in DA:O.

From 6 +hours after my rogue archer DA:O playthrough the fights were getting faster and faster. in DA2 it's the complete opposite, because of the absurd amount of health mobs have and the seemlying never ending waves.

And yet these same people talk about how the combat is faster in DA2, lmfao.

On what do you base the presumption we sucked ?

All of you fools think DA:O's combat was slow, it was the complete opposite compared to DA2.

Sales back me up, you lose, give up.

DAO's combat was slow. Don't believe me?

In origins, combat movement is slower than travel movement.

In DA2, combat movement is faster than travel movement.

Waves and enemy health have nothing to do with combat speed, all they alter is battle speed. Two totally different things. Combat speed is how fast your character is moving around the battlefield and hitting enemies. Battle speed is how fast it takes for you and your party to defeat an opposing force.

Wow, your reason why the combat is slow in DA:O is MOVEMENT SPEED.

Oh and obviously battle and combat means two completely different things, despite them meaning the same thing.

Lmfao. You really are a fool.

Modifié par Mecher3k, 05 juin 2011 - 06:45 .

[Theagg]

Mecher3k wrote...

Theagg wrote...

Mecher3k wrote...

I love how the people who are defending teh DA2 combat system, obviously sucked in DA:O.

From 6 +hours after my rogue archer DA:O playthrough the fights were getting faster and faster. in DA2 it's the complete opposite, because of the absurd amount of health mobs have and the seemlying never ending waves.

And yet these same people talk about how the combat is faster in DA2, lmfao.

On what do you base the presumption we sucked ?

All of you fools think DA:O's combat was slow, it was the complete opposite compared to DA2.

Sales back me up, you lose, give up.

Where did I say the combat was slow ? The animations may have been slow but thats a different matter alltogether (from my own perspective)

The mage animations in Origins are by comparison really not that good at all for me, now I'm playing the two games in parallel. However, if you feel the Origins feeble poking of the staff with a vague green dotty trail and the "lets all point our staffs to the sky, one step forward, one step back, hokey pokey" mage routine was more to your tastes though, thats fine. Its subjective but its not the combat per se..

At which I didn't suck.

[Akka le Vil]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

This might just be my inner mage talking, as I love the mage class, but dude, it's a video game. Does it have to be realistic? The answer to that question is no.

The answer is "yes".
Well-designed realism adds depth and immersion.

[Akka le Vil]

Theagg wrote...

The mage animations in Origins are by comparison really not that good at all for me, now I'm playing the two games in parallel. However, if you feel the Origins feeble poking of the staff with a vague green dotty trail and the "lets all point our staffs to the sky, one step forward, one step back, hokey pokey" mage routine was more to your tastes though, thats fine. Its subjective but its not the combat per se..

At which I didn't suck.

The mage animations in Origins DID suck, yes, because it was repetitive.
The mage animations in DA2 DO suck too, though, because they are clownish and ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure that it's not because something sucked in Origins that it means it's automatically better in DA2, far from it.

[Theagg]

Akka le Vil wrote...

Theagg wrote...

The mage animations in Origins are by comparison really not that good at all for me, now I'm playing the two games in parallel. However, if you feel the Origins feeble poking of the staff with a vague green dotty trail and the "lets all point our staffs to the sky, one step forward, one step back, hokey pokey" mage routine was more to your tastes though, thats fine. Its subjective but its not the combat per se..

At which I didn't suck.

The mage animations in Origins DID suck, yes, because it was repetitive.
The mage animations in DA2 DO suck too, though, because they are clownish and ridiculous.

I'm pretty sure that it's not because something sucked in Origins that it means it's automatically better in DA2, far from it.

Here's the real problem though. In reality mages don't exist. So there is nothing by which to judge their animations. Perhaps if they did exist, their movements might really seem clownish, or maybe repetitive.

Who know. whereas with standard combatants, using weapons, at least we have reality by which to judge that animation.

[oldmansavage]

Not a huge fan of the naruto combat or jrpgs.

[Akka le Vil]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

I meant stuff like physics. If you made health realistic in video games, there would be no such thing as hp, it would just be h. And you're basically saying that the game would be fun if your staff broke when you hit someone with it. Okay.

Theagg wrote...

Here's the real problem though. In reality
mages don't exist. So there is nothing by which to judge their
animations. Perhaps if they did exist, their movements might really seem
clownish, or maybe repetitive.

Who know. whereas with standard combatants, using weapons, at least we have reality by which to judge that animation.

...
Okay.

I should have known that it's totally useless to even bring the concepts of realism, credibility and believability in a RPG. It always ends up in the same garbage "counter-arguments".
Never mind.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 05 juin 2011 - 08:56 .

[Anathemic]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

First off rogues do not 'hop and bop' that's not the purpose of the rogue. A rogue is take down with few hits as possible, why? Because it's a freakin' rogue, fragile as hell. 'Hopping and bopping' is contradiction to the aspect of a rogue.

Mages do not melee... with staves. Yeah a staff can be used as a weapon (martial arts whoo) but a mage's staff? That's pushing it. One, it's weighted at the end, so the weighted part is more likely to break off with enough tension. Secondly, as a mage staff, it's likely to be light as you don't see mages on steroids here, again adding to the 'weighted end' problem. And thirdly, this may not apply but I always saw mage staves to be super fragile and hollow in the inside, think wands from Harry Potter, like a core inside or somethin'.

This might just be my inner mage talking, as I love the mage class, but dude, it's a video game. Does it have to be realistic? The answer to that question is no. Staves with blades = awesomesauce.

Spear shooting out storms of fire. Your argument is invalid.

Huh games such as The Witcher, Legend of Zelda, Asassin's Creed, Oblivion, Morrowind, Call of Duty, LA Noire, would like a word with you

What, other games that aren't realistic at all either?

AC: There's no way in hell anyone could do any of that crap.

Oblivion: Get your acrobatics up to 100 and you'll see what I'm talking about.

LoZ: Pull out a giant hammer the size of child from a small pocket, and then talk to me.

Morrowind: Same as oblivion

Never played the Witcher. And LA Noire and CoD may be the only ones I agree with you on.

Morrowind the same as Oblivion? Get out of here.

And plus I thought we were discussing combat realism.

[oldmansavage]

Akka le Vil wrote...

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

I meant stuff like physics. If you made health realistic in video games, there would be no such thing as hp, it would just be h. And you're basically saying that the game would be fun if your staff broke when you hit someone with it. Okay.

Theagg wrote...

Here's the real problem though. In reality
mages don't exist. So there is nothing by which to judge their
animations. Perhaps if they did exist, their movements might really seem
clownish, or maybe repetitive.

Who know. whereas with standard combatants, using weapons, at least we have reality by which to judge that animation.

...
Okay.

I should have known that it's totally useless to even bring the concepts of realism, credibility and believability in a RPG. It always ends up in the same garbage "counter-arguments".
Never mind.

I guess if you can't quantify anything fantastic due to our limited reality that gives one license to make stuff some goofy ****.

[XSevSpreeX]

Monica83 wrote...

the combat isn't bad per se if you remove:

Silly jerkish manga animations
Silly jerkish over the top ability
Silly teleport charging and backstab
Ennemy spawning from the sky
Ennemy with 7124 hp
Silly stupid body explosion

This. Even though the rogue "teleporting" adds a unique feel to it, doing something like that isn't really a stamina based unless they add more to the animation, like instead throwing something into your enemy's face then backstabbing them. The enemies spawning from the sky is I think supposed to be the idea of them coming from the rooftops, just very poorly done because it's assumed that players don't look up there. Keep the body explosions for mages. Maybe give warriors (particularly 2-handed warriors) the ability to cut enemies in half (as a kill animation) except for on armored enemies. In real life there are smaller swords that can do similar injuries easily.

[Theagg]

Akka le Vil wrote...

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

I meant stuff like physics. If you made health realistic in video games, there would be no such thing as hp, it would just be h. And you're basically saying that the game would be fun if your staff broke when you hit someone with it. Okay.

Theagg wrote...

Here's the real problem though. In reality
mages don't exist. So there is nothing by which to judge their
animations. Perhaps if they did exist, their movements might really seem
clownish, or maybe repetitive.

Who know. whereas with standard combatants, using weapons, at least we have reality by which to judge that animation.

...
Okay.



I should have known that it's totally useless to even bring the concepts of realism, credibility and believability in a RPG. It always ends up in the same garbage "counter-arguments".
Never mind.

Well, firstly, to have any sensible argument you have to decide where you draw the baseline for reality in Thedas (compared to our world) and decide where you want it to slip and become more fluid.

For example, you seem to feel the combat and mage animations are a]too quick and b]violate the laws of physics.

fine, that's one baseline (weapons that seem paper light) but then lets apply that to other 'objects' in Thedas.

For example, by our real world standards, dragons would not be able to fly. They would be too massive to acheive such lofty status. Their legs would probably break upon landing (some of those heavy landings in game would be disasterous in real life). So, are dragons flying acceptable and believable ?

What of Ogres, basically giant humanoid shapes whose legs would break upon walking and jumping.

This doesn't happen in the game, so obviously the laws of physics that apply here don't apply in Thedas. Something is 'different' about gravity. So perhaps weapons don't behave quite as they would either.

Dragons use 'magic' means to fly you might answer. Well, many weapons are magic too.

So where do you want to draw the line as regards believabilty ?

Modifié par Theagg, 05 juin 2011 - 09:22 .

[XSevSpreeX]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...
AC: There's no way in hell anyone could do any of that crap.

"Any of that crap" is so specific. There's absolutely no need for elaboration there. /sarcasm

If you're talking about the freerunning, ya that's possible. Except for the leap of faith, to an extent. Under ideal conditions it's possible (a cart of hay from 15 stories up isn't ideal). Combat  is realistic (to a point anyways, killing someone armored like a brute in real life would be a little tricky).

[Funkjoker]

Akka le Vil wrote...
...
Okay.

I should have known that it's totally useless to even bring the concepts of realism, credibility and believability in a RPG. It always ends up in the same garbage "counter-arguments".
Never mind.

lol. That's why I'm rarely writing in this board, as most users can't be discussed with. However, I concur to 100% with your points, sir.

Alongside all other failures of DA2, combat is one of the top ones.

Akka le Vil wrote...

But there was no need to go all
console comic-book fighting to get these improvements. We could have
done without the ridiculous animations (paper-weight weapons that are
wildly swung around, ninja templars, dancing mages, clownish rogues),
laughable exploding bodies, fighting designed around the use of AoE
without FF, lore-contradicting spells, and more than anything, the
GODAWFUL AMOUNT of fighting every two seconds that seems like a rampant
disease in the whole game.

And the waves, sure, but about everyone is agreeing on this last point.

QFT!

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 05 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

XSevSpreeX wrote...

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...
AC: There's no way in hell anyone could do any of that crap.

"Any of that crap" is so specific. There's absolutely no need for elaboration there. /sarcasm

If you're talking about the freerunning, ya that's possible. Except for the leap of faith, to an extent. Under ideal conditions it's possible (a cart of hay from 15 stories up isn't ideal). Combat  is realistic (to a point anyways, killing someone armored like a brute in real life would be a little tricky).

AC is all possible. It's called parkour. The 15 story dive into water? Totally possible. 15 stories into a hay bale? Not so much. The climbing aspect is completely believable as well.
The thing is, you probably should NOT attempt to do anything AC does. Unless you trained for it.

Modifié par soccerchick, 05 juin 2011 - 10:09 .

[XSevSpreeX]

soccerchick wrote...

XSevSpreeX wrote...

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...
AC: There's no way in hell anyone could do any of that crap.

"Any of that crap" is so specific. There's absolutely no need for elaboration there. /sarcasm

If you're talking about the freerunning, ya that's possible. Except for the leap of faith, to an extent. Under ideal conditions it's possible (a cart of hay from 15 stories up isn't ideal). Combat  is realistic (to a point anyways, killing someone armored like a brute in real life would be a little tricky).

AC is all possible. It's called parkour. The 15 story dive into water? Totally possible. 15 stories into a hay bale? Not so much. The climbing aspect is completely believable as well.
The thing is, you probably should NOT attempt to do anything AC does. Unless you trained for it.

Exactly. All the movement in AC is realistic, the leap of faith is the only thing that challenges the realism of parkour, and that's only on some occasions, 15 story drop into a hay bale for example. It's possible, if there's enough cushion which that much hay wouldn't provide. Well 15 stories is a little iffy, but you get my point. I think Duncan needs to look up some parkour on youtube.

[Kasces]

Frankly, combat would have been great if not for waves.

Modifié par Kasces, 05 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

XSevSpreeX wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

XSevSpreeX wrote...

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...
AC: There's no way in hell anyone could do any of that crap.

"Any of that crap" is so specific. There's absolutely no need for elaboration there. /sarcasm

If you're talking about the freerunning, ya that's possible. Except for the leap of faith, to an extent. Under ideal conditions it's possible (a cart of hay from 15 stories up isn't ideal). Combat  is realistic (to a point anyways, killing someone armored like a brute in real life would be a little tricky).

AC is all possible. It's called parkour. The 15 story dive into water? Totally possible. 15 stories into a hay bale? Not so much. The climbing aspect is completely believable as well.
The thing is, you probably should NOT attempt to do anything AC does. Unless you trained for it.

Exactly. All the movement in AC is realistic, the leap of faith is the only thing that challenges the realism of parkour, and that's only on some occasions, 15 story drop into a hay bale for example. It's possible, if there's enough cushion which that much hay wouldn't provide. Well 15 stories is a little iffy, but you get my point. I think Duncan needs to look up some parkour on youtube.

Don't tell him that! He might be the next weirdo jumping off buildings to punch one of my friends in the face! 
...True story.

[xkg]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...
***and let me clarify that over-the-top is GOOD in video games, it's what makes them fun.

Yes, it does ... for you. But not everyone share your opinion.