148 réponses à ce sujet

[MadDogMurphy]

I.AM.DUNCAN wrote...

I don't think you understand. Let me put it this way. A guy can swing a sword at 1mph at a dude that can die in one hit. Another guy can swing a sword at 10mph at a different dude-- a very tough dude-- who can take multiple hits and die after maybe 10. So, guy 2 is faster than guy 1, but guy 1 was fighting a weaker dude.

Man....I tried to explain it to him early in this thread too.

"I thought Duncan was correct in what he was saying and still do.  You
are talking about start to finish "fight time" vs what he was saying
movement & animations in the fight." 

I also tried to explain the difference between combat and battle by DEFINITION.  Junior has no clue.  And after reading all of the posts....I was reminded of a movie line from City Slickers.

"Shut up! Just shut up! He doesn't get it! He'll never get it! It's been 4
hours! The cows can tape something by now! Forget about it please!
"

[maxernst]

Tirfan wrote...

Because you can't have a combat system that actually involves tactics and thinking that is at the same time so fast you can see what is happening? (really, I couldn't not make out what was happening in DA2 battles.. too much explosions, teleportation and anime moves.) and yes please, no more ballet-dancer mages

I tend to agree with this.  I have no idea what I'm doing in this game.  Aside from the occasional adjustment if I notice somebody's about to die, I just let the A.I. run the other PC's and control Hawke. I'm really not sure which spells are working well because the opposition tends to die so quickly, I don't know what hit them.  In DA:O, I had to worry about positioning any time I wanted to use AoE spells, but (except, I guess on nightmare which I haven't tried), that's a non-issue in DA2.  Despite feeling utterly clueless about the system, I'm on my first playthrough on normal difficulty, partway through act two with only three reloads--twice with the Deep Roads dragon and once in the Templar fight at the cave entrance.  Those were the only combats I had to make strategic changes (character position mostly) over my first try.  I definitely had to manage my characters and found normal difficulty a lot more challenging in DA:O, at least thus far.  Also, having waves of new opponents coming out of nowhere and surrounding you in the middle of combats makes a mess of any attempt at carefully positioning your characters anyway.

Modifié par maxernst, 07 juin 2011 - 12:22 .

[DrFumb1ezX]

maxernst wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Because you can't have a combat system that actually involves tactics and thinking that is at the same time so fast you can see what is happening? (really, I couldn't not make out what was happening in DA2 battles.. too much explosions, teleportation and anime moves.) and yes please, no more ballet-dancer mages

I tend to agree with this.  I have no idea what I'm doing in this game.  Aside from the occasional adjustment if I notice somebody's about to die, I just let the A.I. run the other PC's and control Hawke. I'm really not sure which spells are working well because the opposition tends to die so quickly, I don't know what hit them.  In DA:O, I had to worry about positioning any time I wanted to use AoE spells, but (except, I guess on nightmare which I haven't tried), that's a non-issue in DA2.  Despite feeling utterly clueless about the system, I'm on my first playthrough on normal difficulty, partway through act two with only three reloads--twice with the Deep Roads dragon and once in the Templar fight at the cave entrance.  Those were the only combats I had to make strategic changes (character position mostly) over my first try.  I definitely had to manage my characters and found normal difficulty a lot more challenging in DA:O, at least thus far.  Also, having waves of new opponents coming out of nowhere and surrounding you in the middle of combats makes a mess of any attempt at carefully positioning your characters anyway.

The best thing about a company like Bioware is not that they make great games. It's that they listen. They hear our cries and they will try to address the changes.
In fact, most of the changes for DA2 came from cries about DA:O. So... yeah. Time for a fusion!

Modifié par soccerchick, 07 juin 2011 - 12:57 .

[Tirfan]

Well, thinking they will listen is the only thing why I still read and started posting on these forums (and perhaps the fact that I need to pour my frustration about DA2 sucking somewhere) but, well, I really fear the worst, as I said somewhere, I think I might have to put fingers on my ears and pretend that DA ended with origins. One can still hope that DA3 will be good..

[Sidney]

LeBurns wrote...

What the heck? DA2 combat was fast. Movements by the PC and crew were so fast that you couldn't even pause to get commands in.

I'm actually laughing that someone either has the bad reflexes or just can't processes things fast enough to make this true. While the animations are faster the animations for any special move still take time. Even hasted there's no way that you can't react to what your party is doing and pause to issue new commands.  I ran on  alot of scripting for trash mobs but even in fights (foes with mages or rogues) where I did micromanage there was never an issue.

Even if the combat moves at a tempo that is too much for your mind to handle then spend a few moments to set up some halfway decent tactics so if you "miss" a command opportunity they are still doing something useful. I'm going to be ticked if they dumb combat down to a speed where even the slow readers can keep up.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Tirfan wrote...

Well, thinking they will listen is the only thing why I still read and started posting on these forums (and perhaps the fact that I need to pour my frustration about DA2 sucking somewhere) but, well, I really fear the worst, as I said somewhere, I think I might have to put fingers on my ears and pretend that DA ended with origins. One can still hope that DA3 will be good..

COME ON, BRO! 

[addiction21]

Sidney wrote...

LeBurns wrote...

What the heck? DA2 combat was fast. Movements by the PC and crew were so fast that you couldn't even pause to get commands in.

I'm actually laughing that someone either has the bad reflexes or just can't processes things fast enough to make this true. While the animations are faster the animations for any special move still take time. Even hasted there's no way that you can't react to what your party is doing and pause to issue new commands.  I ran on  alot of scripting for trash mobs but even in fights (foes with mages or rogues) where I did micromanage there was never an issue.

Even if the combat moves at a tempo that is too much for your mind to handle then spend a few moments to set up some halfway decent tactics so if you "miss" a command opportunity they are still doing something useful. I'm going to be ticked if they dumb combat down to a speed where even the slow readers can keep up.

You also qouted someone that only played the demo, mashed buttons the whole way thru, and had there eyes closes the whole time.... half the time... only at the end. It tends to change depending on the cycle of the moon with Leburns.

[Tirfan]

Sidney wrote...

LeBurns wrote...

What the heck? DA2 combat was fast. Movements by the PC and crew were so fast that you couldn't even pause to get commands in.

I'm actually laughing that someone either has the bad reflexes or just can't processes things fast enough to make this true. While the animations are faster the animations for any special move still take time. Even hasted there's no way that you can't react to what your party is doing and pause to issue new commands.  I ran on  alot of scripting for trash mobs but even in fights (foes with mages or rogues) where I did micromanage there was never an issue.

Even if the combat moves at a tempo that is too much for your mind to handle then spend a few moments to set up some halfway decent tactics so if you "miss" a command opportunity they are still doing something useful. I'm going to be ticked if they dumb combat down to a speed where even the slow readers can keep up.

Really?! Maybe I've just been hit on the head too many times, but I can't comprehend how anyone can keep up with the combat in DA2, I did settle with making decent tactics for companions and had my Hawke just stand there while I was reading during combat.

And I'm not exactly what you would call a slow reader btw, these things are not related.

And optimist prime/negatron picture made my day.

[DrFumb1ezX]

Tirfan wrote...

Sidney wrote...

LeBurns wrote...

What the heck? DA2 combat was fast. Movements by the PC and crew were so fast that you couldn't even pause to get commands in.

I'm actually laughing that someone either has the bad reflexes or just can't processes things fast enough to make this true. While the animations are faster the animations for any special move still take time. Even hasted there's no way that you can't react to what your party is doing and pause to issue new commands.  I ran on  alot of scripting for trash mobs but even in fights (foes with mages or rogues) where I did micromanage there was never an issue.

Even if the combat moves at a tempo that is too much for your mind to handle then spend a few moments to set up some halfway decent tactics so if you "miss" a command opportunity they are still doing something useful. I'm going to be ticked if they dumb combat down to a speed where even the slow readers can keep up.

Really?! Maybe I've just been hit on the head too many times, but I can't comprehend how anyone can keep up with the combat in DA2, I did settle with making decent tactics for companions and had my Hawke just stand there while I was reading during combat.

And I'm not exactly what you would call a slow reader btw, these things are not related.

And optimist prime/negatron picture made my day.

Of course it did! Why else would I put it there? 

[Monica83]

soccerchick wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, thinking they will listen is the only thing why I still read and started posting on these forums (and perhaps the fact that I need to pour my frustration about DA2 sucking somewhere) but, well, I really fear the worst, as I said somewhere, I think I might have to put fingers on my ears and pretend that DA ended with origins. One can still hope that DA3 will be good..

COME ON, BRO! 

The last time we been optimistic we get a garbage sequel:whistle:

[DrFumb1ezX]

Monica83 wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, thinking they will listen is the only thing why I still read and started posting on these forums (and perhaps the fact that I need to pour my frustration about DA2 sucking somewhere) but, well, I really fear the worst, as I said somewhere, I think I might have to put fingers on my ears and pretend that DA ended with origins. One can still hope that DA3 will be good..

COME ON, BRO! 

The last time we been optimistic we get a garbage sequel:whistle:

NOT THE POINT, BRO! 

[Monica83]

SIS im a girl

[DrFumb1ezX]

Monica83 wrote...

SIS im a girl

And unfortunately, I'm a guy. Freaking Bioware with their no change system.... Freaking older sisters and their perchance of typing in screen-names while I'm in the bathroom.....

[MorrigansLove]

Combat just felt it was there to add hours to the game. But it certainly wasn't the worst aspect of Dragon Age 2, no.

[jbblue05]

If DA3 goes back to Origins combat I will cry

[Mecha Tengu]

Monica83 wrote...

soccerchick wrote...

Tirfan wrote...

Well, thinking they will listen is the only thing why I still read and started posting on these forums (and perhaps the fact that I need to pour my frustration about DA2 sucking somewhere) but, well, I really fear the worst, as I said somewhere, I think I might have to put fingers on my ears and pretend that DA ended with origins. One can still hope that DA3 will be good..

COME ON, BRO! 

The last time we been optimistic we get a garbage sequel:whistle:

lol

[ApostleinTriumph]

Sure, if you think starting a fight with 4 enemies and ending up getting pit against a legion of 30, maybe you think combat wasn't bad. Not to mention they fall out of the sky or spawn out of thin air, which makes the game so immersive, it seems teleportation is a common thing for the creatures of Thedas! Such a wonderful implementation.

But it WAS bad. In this sense. As you get better equipment it gets smoother, but the first few hours, was a nightmare. I had to hop through the zones to find a quest I could complete. (Was playing on hard difficulty)

[Mecher3k]

jbblue05 wrote...

If DA3 goes back to Origins combat I will cry

And if DA3 has the combat from DA2 DA3 will sell 100,000 copies. If that.

[MorrigansLove]

I am very much looking forward for DA2 DLC just so I can see if they have listened to the feedback. Can't wait.

[Yrkoon]

  Dead Horse Beatin' time!

Mecher3k wrote...


So pretty much your a fool. As faster combat means how quickly it ends, this is reality.

LOL

No one here is arguing  about whether or not the  combat is  Longer or Shorter.... except for you, and you're on your own little island  with that one, completely oblivious to what EVERYONE else on this thread is even discussing.

We're talking combat *speed*. not length.    How about a sports analogy.

Muhammad Ali had fast hands and  fast feet.   He was a fast  fighter.  He was was a lightning  quick fighter.    He was Faster than, say, George Foreman.  But that doesn't mean his fights ended faster than George Formans did.   Cuz they didn't.  Foreman has a string of 1st and second round KOs, while Ali often went the distance.   Duh.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 08 juin 2011 - 03:02 .

[Tirfan]

If we would talk about combat length, every encounter in DA2 lasted really long..
But I think I finally kind of understood why I don't think the combat fits the game, it reminds me of combat in exalted (you know, White Wolf pen and paper rpg), don't get me wrong, it was fun in that setting and with my group where we never took our exalted campaign very seriously, but every time I see one of those anime-jumps in DA2 I just want to cry. It is however really weird how much DA2 combat bears resemblance to exalted, in 10 minutes of fighting you destroy giant hordes of random mooks and describe crazy anime-moves, set 2 ships accidentally on fire etc. luckily, in DA2 combat you won't have to throw a bucket full of dies every now and then, which is about the only good thing about it.

[Marek-B]

One less technical thing that took away fun out of combat for me (among various others which were already mentioned by many users) was that 90-95% of the time we had to fight nameless generic enemies (the very most sometimes with someone standing out like a leader). I don't say every encounter has to have special enemies but in DAII countless times I turned off the game becaused I was annoyed to fight some faceless troops every 2 minutes who were attacking me for no obvious reason.

One fight which I always remember in being fun was against Mencar and his group in the Den of Seven Vales (BG2 - Waukeens Promenade)... oh, and if I'm into BG2 already: please make all items enemies are wearing lootable.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

I'd rather be a Spartanus Prime!