447 réponses à ce sujet

[Well]

Well my current Hawke is making one of the toughest decisions he is allow to make.To wear the smoking jacket or not.Ok.Nothing to write home about.H/T to Mr.Crusty for the link to J.E.Sawyer.It has years since I seen that name.

Guess I should of mention my warden but i have so many choices.Dwarf Prince,Elven city,Elven mage...ect..ect 

Modifié par Well, 05 juin 2011 - 03:01 .

[Verly]

I like my Wardens and my Hawkes. I don't have to chose between the two. when I feel like playing a warden I pop in DAO and play as Vey (the dwarf in my avatar) if I feel like playing a Hawke I do that.

[Aaleel]

Not really. Too much work was left to me to shape Hawke, I was made to assume too much.

How did make a name for him/herself, what were the deeds, why was Hawke more important than any other smuggler/mercenary. Why did my family stay when the Blight ended. What was the conversation, did I convince my family to stay, did stuff they said convince me to stay, did they say wouldn't go back, did I say I wouldn't go back.

My sister is in the circle but I can't visit her to see how mages are really treated, my brother is a templar but I never see him around or ever get to talk to visit him in the gallows. You see other templars with their families, what was his take on the conditions. Things that may have helped shape Hawke's reasoning leading up to the final decision.

My family, who are these people, can I explore my family history all around the city, what was it. I live with them but can barely talk to them, I have full access to Kirkwall but where were the quests to tell me about my history there, what were there a couple all game? The family came across to me as nothing but tools to try and add sadness to the game by stripping them away.

The game didn't let me define Hawke by actions and consequences through the game, I had to do it by pretty much creating my own fanfic as I progressed filling in the gaps and unanswered question myself.

Modifié par Aaleel, 05 juin 2011 - 02:29 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Well wrote...

Well my current Hawke is making one of the toughest decisions he is allow to make.To wear the smoking jacket or not.Ok.Nothing to write home about.H/T to Mr.Crusty for the link to J.E.Sawyer.It has years since I seen that name.

Years? Lol. The man's now one of the managing directors at Obsidian and was the Lead Designer behind New Vegas. If anything, I'd think you'd hear about him more recently.

Aaleel wrote...

Not really. Too much work was left to me to shape Hawke, I was made to assume too much.

How did make a name for him/herself, what were the deeds, why was Hawke more important than any other smuggler/mercenary. Why did my family stay when the Blight ended. What was the conversation, did I convince
my family to stay, did stuff they said convince me to stay, did they say wouldn't go back, did I say I wouldn't go back.

My sister is in the circle but I can't visit her, my brother is a templar but I never see him around or ever get to talk to visit him in the gallows. You see other templars with their families, what was his take on the conditions. Things that may have helped shape Hawke's reasoning leading up to the final decision.

My family, who are these people, can I explore my family history all around the city, what was it. I live with them but can barely talk to them, I have full access to Kirkwall but where were the quests to tell me about my history there, what were there a couple all game? The family came across to me as nothing but tools to try and add sadness to the game by stripping them away.

The game didn't let me define Hawke by actions and consequences through the game, I had to do it by pretty much creating my own fanfic as I progressed filling in the gaps and unanswered question myself.

Says in a few small snippets the same thing that took me a mini-essay to write.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 05 juin 2011 - 02:29 .

[Lord Nikon 001]

Easily I like my Warden(s) better. Hawke was not a likable character for me. I like using my imagination when I play games and having a voiced character that never seemed to say what I wanted (or saying  what I intending to say) took all that away for me. I'd be happy If I never played Hawke again.
BRING BACK THE WARDENS!!

Modifié par Lord Nikon 001, 05 juin 2011 - 02:29 .

[Dormiglione]

Honestly, i dont like Hawke. I dont like The way he/she is written. So many times i stared at the conversation wheel and thought "Where is the answer that i would give in this situation", so many time i missed the possibility to take another action to handle the situation. I dont care about Hawke.

In DAO were plenty of answers that i could stand behind. Answers that shared my feelings. The immersion with my warden is still present.

I would like to continue the story of the warden. Even if that means that he/she remained unvoiced.

[Well]

mrcrusty wrote...

Well wrote...

Well my current Hawke is making one of the toughest decisions he is allow to make.To wear the smoking jacket or not.Ok.Nothing to write home about.H/T to Mr.Crusty for the link to J.E.Sawyer.It has years since I seen that name.

Years? Lol. The man's now one of the managing directors at Obsidian and was the Lead Designer behind New Vegas. If anything, I'd think you'd hear about him more recently.

Aaleel wrote...

Not really. Too much work was left to me to shape Hawke, I was made to assume too much.

How did make a name for him/herself, what were the deeds, why was Hawke more important than any other smuggler/mercenary. Why did my family stay when the Blight ended. What was the conversation, did I convince
my family to stay, did stuff they said convince me to stay, did they say wouldn't go back, did I say I wouldn't go back.

My sister is in the circle but I can't visit her, my brother is a templar but I never see him around or ever get to talk to visit him in the gallows. You see other templars with their families, what was his take on the conditions. Things that may have helped shape Hawke's reasoning leading up to the final decision.

My family, who are these people, can I explore my family history all around the city, what was it. I live with them but can barely talk to them, I have full access to Kirkwall but where were the quests to tell me about my history there, what were there a couple all game? The family came across to me as nothing but tools to try and add sadness to the game by stripping them away.

The game didn't let me define Hawke by actions and consequences through the game, I had to do it by pretty much creating my own fanfic as I progressed filling in the gaps and unanswered question myself.

Says in a few small snippets the same thing that took me a mini-essay to write.

I generally stay under my bridge collecting tolls occasionally.

[highcastle]

mrcrusty wrote...

It helped to define the character you've chosen and would be of particular importance if you were friendly with Alistair.

As a character that the player could connect with, he's pointless, a placeholder. It was about striking a chord with the player's sense of morality and justice. They showed that Loghain has a real, tangible advantage in stopping the Blight, then juxtapose this with his actions which have given you and your friends nothing but trouble and pain. The game then asked, "which is more important for your character and you as a player?"

But that's the thing. I had a good relationship with Alistair. I knew nothing about Loghain. Easy decision (for me). There was no emotional impact here. If you want to bring up morality and justice, than I think DA2 did that better with Anders' plotline. Same issue about doing what's right versus what's legal (with the added moral grayness of not being told for certain which side of the Act 3 conflict actually is "right" or which side is even "legal," as both acted outside the bounds of all such notions).

As a gamer, things that resonate emotionally with me tend to be character driven rather than abstract concepts. Executing Loghain was somewhat abstract because I had no reason to feel sympathetic for him. Anders' plot lines on the other hand...

That's the thing. Dragon Age 2's quests may be emotionally impacting, but with the knowledge that whatever you chose didn't matter, it cheapens the decision and makes it harder for a player to connect with their character. All roads lead to the same destination. Sure, you can play in-character, but without tangible differences between the choices, you're just imaginging the character development. As opposed to having the game respond to it through consequences, making it concrete.

That makes it less satisfying for me, though I'm sure it won't for others.

Again, I'm on record as saying I don't mind the all-roads-lead-to-Rome philosophy. And really, DAO had much the same. You always defeat the Blight, you always slay the Archdemon. The manner you did this could differ, but even that would be overwritten if you wanted to play DAA. It would have been better, IMO, if DAO restricted the player choices if they weren't going to carry forward into subsequent expansions. Options that don't go anywhere don't trump lack of options, IMO.

I didn't feel like anything about DA2 cheapened the experience for me. It was an emotional rollercoaster from start to finish. And I really don't see this lack of choice thing. I can't bring up too much in the no spoilers section, but it's possible to go into Act 3 with only 3 companions. If you play around with solving side quests in different ways, it can dramatically impact the tone of later quests. Yes, the game ends the same way no matter what. As I've said before, I think this will allow BioWare to craft a stronger narrative from the get go. And despite the ending remaining basically the same, I've replayed the game 8 times so far and every Hawke has felt different.

I guess the short way of saying this is to me, internal change in a character trumps external change on the environment. And Hawke was definitely changed by the events of DA2 (at least my Hawke was).

No, I won't say that you're wrong or anything, I was just throwing out general examples. But for me personally, there was less of this than compared with other games and RPGs. Which makes it harder to RP as Hawke has elements of the character that is already preset.

Again, you can enter Act 3 with 3 companions. You can then theoretically kill off one more, plus another who returns at the end no matter what. That's more of a party wipe than Origins allowed for, if that's your thing. And side quests can just about all be solved in a variety of ways. How you solve them opens up new quests you won't see otherwise. 

Actually, Planescape: Torment gave you a preset character and the game's plot was essentially "regain your memories, discover yourself". It is by far the most player character centric RPG out there. If you haven't played it yet, I sorely recommend it if you're willing to put up with the D&D ruleset and old graphics.

I have played it. It was a great game. (Hey look, we agree on something.)

As for shaping a detailed character's emotions and the like, I felt that Alpha Protocol and The Witcher 2 did a much better job of this in recent times. What struck me was how little interactivity and real focus was given to the player in terms of personal events. I won't be specific outside of saying "family members" because of the No Spoilers, but Hawke's grief and their impact on Hawke's character seems to be temporary.

I think that's how you RPed it, then. My Hawke's grief remained fresh in his mind for the rest of that Act, and there were echoes of it in the later portions of the game as well. On the other hand, while I liked AP more than many did, I never felt emotionally connected to Thorton. AP made it part of the game to figure out how people liked being talked to, and then encouraged you to either make them like your or hate you depending on tone. So instead of picking a tone that felt consistent with a single character, many players found themselves encouraged to pick a tone based on who they were talking to. The result was a character who was somewhat schizophrenic. Or else a character who didn't get the perks of having so many people like or hate him.

I can't comment on TW2 because I haven't played it. I wasn't a huge fan of TW1, though, with its complete lack of character customization and its exploitive view on women. So...yeah.

It's up to the player to imagine how it shapes Hawke, as opposed to actually having the game play on those decisions and reinforce the depth of the character and outside of the people it involves, it doesn't really have an effect on the greater narrative. The character development is self contained, rather than displayed in the game at large.

While some might claim that "Hawke is just suffering silently" or whatever, I find that a bit of a cop out. What about a Hawke who wants to actively bring it up? What about a Hawke who puts up a facade that breaks when being confronted about it by NPCs?

Um, you can bring it up. There are plenty of times the game gives you the opportunity to bring up your losses. That's one of the first things I noticed, especially in comparison to Origins. One of my first characters was a HN who just wanted to ditch the Wardens and go after his brother. Aside from about 2 conversations where you can bring this up, it's dropped again. It's as though the Warden's grief doesn't matter. DA2, however, put Hawke's emotions right on the table and gave the player the opportunity to explore that. If you didn't by not picking those dialogue options, well...that's not the game's fault.

There's little opportunity for player input regarding the matter, which I think is a big problem when it comes to player-centric narrative. It's not much of a big deal in Origins, because that wasn't really PC-centric, but in a game that is, the lack of self reflection and opportunities to reinforce character development is a bit disappointing. Well, there probably was this in Dragon Age 2, but I saw many of it's narrative elements and mechanics come directly from Alpha Protocol, which did them better. So I really just wasn't impressed with it.

Playing The Witcher 2, I'm deep into Act 3 and people still bring up the events and my choices of Act 1 in a way that's both natural, but makes me question on whether I made the right decision. Of course, Geralt in my playthrough is an unrepenting bastard, but it's nice to know that the game doesn't forget my choices and allows the character to respond in their own way.

Of course, my opinion is my own and I won't try to force it on you.

I don't think AP did anything better than DA2. And again, I liked it. I also loved DAO before anyone starts thinking otherwise. But I fundamentally disagree with those who say that DA2 doesn't give Hawke the chance to vent his emotions. It's all about his emotions. In just about every conversation you have the opportunity to explore what he's thinking and feeling.

Hey, to each their own. In an earlier approach I equated DA2 to a quietly building drama while DAO was an action film. Some people like dramas. Some people like action flicks. I belong firmly in the latter category, and it's natural others have different preferences. But if you want to say Hawke doesn't emote or react to the events of the game...well, I'm sorry, but I don't think that's a matter of opinion. It's just wrong.

[Master Shiori]

highcastle wrote...

I care so much more about Hawke than I did the Warden. I liked my Wardens, don't get me wrong, but they all felt a bit unemotional. There were so many times I wanted them to emit some kind of pain or anguish, only for them to fall flat. Part of this may be do to the lack of VA and thus the lack of facial expressions with every line. Part of this is also due to animation. The Warden was much more static.

But the major reason, I believe, is that DA2 allows for much more reactivity on the part of the player. People complain that certain events int he game are fixed (since this is a no spoiler section, obviously I can't say which). But the game gives you a wide variety of ways to react to those events. So in that way, I felt like I had plenty of choices when it came down to what kind of person my Hawke was. And that type of deep control and emotional response means I tend to get more attached.

Agreed.

I love both my Hawke(s) and my Warden(s), but if given a choice of who I wanted to play again in a future DA game, I'd pick Hawke.

[DarkDragon777]

No, I despise Hawke. In fact, he/she is one of the worst main characters in any video game I've played so far.

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Do you like Hawke, or do you miss your Warden? If Hawke were to die, would it affect you?

Yes I like Hawke but I feel he/she is just an observer and gets shuffled along on the whims of others.  I don't feel that Hawke had the decision making ability that my warden did.  I could care less if my Hawkes turn up dead, unless there is the possibility of them returning in a future installment.  Hawke could have gone anywhere. I'd prefer to see my Wardens and my Hawkes in an adventure together.  I don't believe this will happen, but I can dream and I guess this is what fan fiction is for.  I'd love for BioWare to pull this off.

I miss my Wardens the most.  I seemed to identify with them more.  I felt their stories were more indepth to Thedas. 

I'm looking forward to the new dlc that they are working on or an expanison and hopefully we'll all find out why the wardens were in Kirkwall.

Modifié par ElvaliaRavenHart, 05 juin 2011 - 02:52 .

[rammsoldat]

warden had more of a personal toutch to him, hawke was an "on rails" character. Warden wins it every tim

[KnightofPhoenix]

Do I care about Hawke or like him / her?

No, not at all.

My least favorite RPG protagonist ever in fact.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 05 juin 2011 - 03:00 .

[Pasquale1234]

I don't dislike Hawke. Throughout the game, she did her best to make lemonade.

I don't feel attached to Hawke at all, though, and don't care to play the character in another game. I think the combination of the VA, forced narrative, unreliable narrator, boatloads of cinematic animations, inability to change many of the key outcomes, etc. - all made me feel more like I was watching a movie than playing a game. Neither the character nor the story left me wanting a sequel.

I want my Warden back.

[DarkDragon777]

Seriously, I hope we never see him again. EVER

[Ryzaki]

The thing is....I don't think its lack of choice that makes me dislike Hawke. Because I love love love Minato to bits and I have practically no choice in that game at all. I was connected to him however by seeing the effect he had on those around him. (Mostly a large effect so much so that when he dies that alot of them start going bonkers).

Hawke...lacked that for me. He was kind of just...there.

[PsyCoil]

NO! He is bloody stupid.

I really hope we will never hear of him again in future DLC / Expansions, Just stay where you staying Hawke. Your hear?! Never come out.

If he died...? Good riddance I'd say.

[ItsTheTruth]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

Seriously, I hope we never see him again. EVER

That. Or perhaps the mangled body of Hawke half-eaten by a bear in the background, in a DLC for DA7.

[DarkDragon777]

Lol DA7 ---- You just see a random skull in a forest and it says "Hawke".

Oh okay, I was worried it was someone important.

[csfteeeer]

Nope.

[Romantiq]

I really tried to like Hawke but it felt absolutely indifferent at the end anyhow. His Champion title felt undeserved and absolutely meaningless. Dude really just happened to be in the right place at the right time. His illusio... i mean decisions felt unimportant and there was no emotional connection between us like there was between myself and warden. I hope that Hawke will never be back. He is one big failure of a character. <_<

Modifié par Romantiq, 05 juin 2011 - 03:36 .

[Bryzon]

I miss my warden but I like Hawke, especially female Hawke. They're pretty different as far as their backgrounds and their involvement in the DA Universe. Warden is more like Captain Shepard, saves the world and stuff. Hawke has a much smaller influence on the world, but is still important. There hard to compare and contrast, and I simply like both.

Modifié par Bryzon, 05 juin 2011 - 03:38 .

[Cross Hassan]

I like Hawke as a character but i always feel proud to be playing with a Grey Warden fighting the Darkspawn. They are respect by everyone

[Sister Helen]

Although I finished all the "origins" sections of DA:O (the human noble/the mage/the dwarf/the city elf/ and the forest elf), I only managed to fully complete two playthroughs: human noble and elf mage.

But once I got to Lothering on the non-complete DA:O playthroughs, I really was at a bit of a loss;  I call it "The Lothering Moment."  It all felt the same, because, with the exception of the LI, it was.  I knew that other than the Final Big Choice (which I won't elaborate on here, as it is a non-spoiler thread) in DA:O, there wasn't much overall difference in how the characters progressed through the game, choosing which section to do first.  "Oh, I think I'll do the mage tower first this time rather than doing the Dalish forest first...."

The player didn't get the same opportunity in DA:2 to see Hawke's culture and background before everything hit the proverbial fan.  You see Hawke and his family on the run, a bit directionless, and get a smidge of the family dynamic before the player gets hurled into the fray.

So, essentially, the player has to develop Hawke's personality through gameplay.  It took me a while to arrive at (two) Hawkes that felt like a good fit, and I enjoyed playing them tremendously. I also never got "The Lothering Moment" in DA:2.  Both playthroughs felt very fresh and a lot of fun; I'm now working on a third, which will have very different choices to make from the first two.

So yes, I like Hawke as a character - at least, I like my versions of Hawke.

Modifié par Sister Helen, 05 juin 2011 - 03:45 .