74 réponses à ce sujet

[Someone With Mass]

lazuli wrote...

Well, from a lore perspective, don't they have 3D printing or something in the ME universe? I don't pay that much attention to the tech in the lore, but it seems to me that all the looting you'd want to do is copying schematics to reproduce the final products on the Normandy.

That's pretty much how they make weapons. Have a fabricator on the ship, and make the weapons you want if you have the schematics. 

Some weapons are copy protected with Fabrication Rights Management (FRM), though. 

[Ahriman]

lazuli wrote...

Well, from a lore perspective, don't they have 3D printing or something in the ME universe? I don't pay that much attention to the tech in the lore, but it seems to me that all the looting you'd want to do is copying schematics to reproduce the final products on the Normandy.

It's very specific and vague area. Omnigel doesn't contain Eezero, so you cannot just 'print' a gun or shield generator. Or can. Hmm.

[Bogsnot1]

Someone With Mass wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Well, from a lore perspective, don't they have 3D printing or something in the ME universe? I don't pay that much attention to the tech in the lore, but it seems to me that all the looting you'd want to do is copying schematics to reproduce the final products on the Normandy.

That's pretty much how they make weapons. Have a fabricator on the ship, and make the weapons you want if you have the schematics. 

Some weapons are copy protected with Fabrication Rights Management (FRM), though. 

Thats OK. Renegade Shep will just get his/hers from The Pirate Nebula.

[candidate88766]

I don't think they have a 3D printer - they just use the scanned or bought schematics to make copies of that gun from whatever materials they have on the ship.

[AlanC9]

However manufacturing works on the Normandy, the real problem is why Shepard doesn't start with the best equipment the Alliance has.

[Phaedon]

Define inventory and looting-

Looting, plenty of it in ME2, but not very diverse, weapon tech, credits, upgrades, minerals. And that will apparently change in ME3.

Inventory, oh it's still there. Definitely. What you are thinking of is centralized inventory.

Weapon Selection ---> Armoury
Weapon Upgrades ---> Lab Terminal
Squad uniform selection ----> Streamlined version, squad selection screen. Why? Because of the several races of the squadmates.
??? ----> Physical Upgrades, Lab Terminal

So yes, there will be looting and inventory and they will be better.

[elitecom]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Why is is unrealistic?

Can you carry around 60 suits of armor?

Can you take one off and put another on instantaneously in the middle of a firefight?

No and no.

Well then again, this is supposed to be a game, and not a simulator of some sorts. If the game must be unrealistic to have good gameplay features, then so be it. I'd rather have good gameplay than realism in Mass Effect 3.

[PantokratorII]

I accepted the inventory/economics in both MEs as mainly a gameplay mechanic. It provides a way for the player to feel rewarded. It seem rather silly that funds should be an issue at all, that was the easiest way the alliance/cerberus could have provided support. Company card plus every top-of-the-line weapon/armor known to man (in a very real sense) should have been the absolute minimum of support given to Shepard before unleashing him on the reapers- I mean whats 10 million spacebucks compared to a frigate, or even the salery of the crew? considering whats at stake.
But that would likely be the death of side quest and be very demanding of the game as all rewards would have to be of narrative/plot progression nature.

[TUHD]

elitecom wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Why is is unrealistic?

Can you carry around 60 suits of armor?

Can you take one off and put another on instantaneously in the middle of a firefight?

No and no.

Well then again, this is supposed to be a game, and not a simulator of some sorts. If the game must be unrealistic to have good gameplay features, then so be it. I'd rather have good gameplay than realism in Mass Effect 3.

If you've played ME1, you know what kind of hassle it was. I absolutely hated it. ME2's meager system also had it's downsides, but at least it made some sense and logical choices. Because it seems a lot of people found it too few (I can imagine it in a way), BW has decided to add mods etc to weapons.
But to have some sort of that ridicilous inventory system of ME1 again? No thanks, if I want such amounts of loot I'll go and play hack&slash games.

[Chromie]

Mesina2 wrote...

Looting in Mass Effect actually makes no sense.

Looting in any rpg that doesnt have crafting makes no sense but i still want it!

[elitecom]

TUHD wrote...
If you've played ME1, you know what kind of hassle it was. I absolutely hated it. ME2's meager system also had it's downsides, but at least it made some sense and logical choices. Because it seems a lot of people found it too few (I can imagine it in a way), BW has decided to add mods etc to weapons.
But to have some sort of that ridicilous inventory system of ME1 again? No thanks, if I want such amounts of loot I'll go and play hack&slash games.

I've played ME1, and how the inventory system in Mass Effect 1 was, is a subjective thing at most. Sure once in a while you had to convert a bunch of items into omni-gel or sell them, but it's not like that broke the game. To browse through all those items, is well sort of a responsibility in a way. When you have a lot of weapons, mods, and armor you've to manage all of those belongings. Getting rid of the unecessary ones, and keeping the necessary ones.
Alternativly you could use KotOR's system where you kept all the items you had, unless you sold them. It works as well, but it could be a bit tiresome with all those items after a while. It depends upon taste I suppose.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I hated having to constantly find and switch to better equipment in ME 1. It was a pain in the behind, especially with the inventory limit. However, if, by chance, I get to choose between light, medium, and heavy armor, I'll always choose heavy.

[BeefoTheBold]

I absolutely want inventory and the ability to loot in ME3.

This is one of the things that was "streamlined" in ME2 that I really disliked. Some people are saying it doesn't make sense to be toting around lots of different weapons and armor. I submit to you that it makes even less sense that a whole freaking galaxy filled with tons of different sentient races would only produce 5-6 different types of rifles or 5-6 different types of armor for instance.

For me, I really loved the ability to wander around the galaxy browsing through stores to see if I'd find a rare piece of armor like a Colossus light armor. I enjoyed being able to customize my gun with different types of ammunition. This added depth to the gameplay for me and made it feel more like a RPG and less like an artificially constrained shooter. It also made the galaxy feel larger when there was 30 different types of rifles created by different competing companies.

What's the fun in a shop that sells exactly 4 different items and never restocks with new surprises? More to the point, where's the realism with that? Taking it one step further, doesn't the galaxy feel a heck of a lot smaller if there are only a handful of different items to choose from?

[Manic Sheep]

candidate88766 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

Why is is unrealistic?

Can you carry around 60 suits of armor?

Can you take one off and put another on instantaneously in the middle of a firefight?

No and no.

Also, this ^

The locker system in ME2 made much more sense from a lore and role-playing perspective. It also made the game a little more interesting, as you had to think about which guns you'd need - although I admit for me it simply boiled down to which heavy weapon do I want and almost always choosing the grenade launcher because it looked the least ridiculous on Shepard's back.

That ^
Your also not working of scavenged equipment like you are in most rpgs, you should already have top of the line equipment. You’re not lugging everything around on your back because you have a ship. You aren’t wondering around exploring aimlessly for the most part. When you on a mission you have a clear objective and your usually in a hurry. You shouldn't be stopping to strip every merc naked and steal his stuff. It's better IMO when you can't change your equiment and skills on the fly.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 05 juin 2011 - 09:47 .

[candidate88766]

Manic Sheep wrote...

It's better IMO when you can't change your equiment and skills on the fly.

Exactly. I think it makes it much more immersive - you have to go to that specific part of the Normandy (armoury, lab) to upgrade and equip your weapons and armour. Felt much better than the ME1 inventory. It was like an interactive inventory, a bit like the menu system in Fable 3. I hope it stays like this for ME3.

[AlanC9]

Ringo12 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Looting in Mass Effect actually makes no sense.

Looting in any rpg that doesnt have crafting makes no sense but i still want it!

We could use more honesty like that in these debates.

[BeefoTheBold]

candidate88766 wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

It's better IMO when you can't change your equiment and skills on the fly.

Exactly. I think it makes it much more immersive - you have to go to that specific part of the Normandy (armoury, lab) to upgrade and equip your weapons and armour. Felt much better than the ME1 inventory. It was like an interactive inventory, a bit like the menu system in Fable 3. I hope it stays like this for ME3.

I'd be okay with not being able to change certain equipment on the fly (like armor) that would be very inconvenient to remove as you go, but there's no real reason why you can't pick up a different rifle on the fly and use it.

More to the point, I really do want to have a lot more options in equipment choices. It's a big galaxy after all. There should be unique weapons and rare armorments that you can obtain.

Whether it is the "special stock" that some shady Hanar has been holding back that you can get him to reveal if you go about it the right way, an illegal rifle that some Batarian slave trader drops, or just some incredibly expensive showpiece that a merchant on the Citadel has always had on display but never expected someone to actually come up with the credits to buy...the possibilities for "special" equipment out there are endless.

[Manic Sheep]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

It's better IMO when you can't change your equiment and skills on the fly.

Exactly. I think it makes it much more immersive - you have to go to that specific part of the Normandy (armoury, lab) to upgrade and equip your weapons and armour. Felt much better than the ME1 inventory. It was like an interactive inventory, a bit like the menu system in Fable 3. I hope it stays like this for ME3.

I'd be okay with not being able to change certain equipment on the fly (like armor) that would be very inconvenient to remove as you go, but there's no real reason why you can't pick up a different rifle on the fly and use it.

More to the point, I really do want to have a lot more options in equipment choices. It's a big galaxy after all. There should be unique weapons and rare armorments that you can obtain.

Whether it is the "special stock" that some shady Hanar has been holding back that you can get him to reveal if you go about it the right way, an illegal rifle that some Batarian slave trader drops, or just some incredibly expensive showpiece that a merchant on the Citadel has always had on display but never expected someone to actually come up with the credits to buy...the possibilities for "special" equipment out there are endless.

More options and shops restocking with new stuff yes.
The lack of variety of equipment is a problem but you don't need to bring back looting tons enemies for randomly generated equipment and a carry around inventory to fix that. What we had in ME1 was pretty pointless IMO.
It may technically have had tons of different armour and weapons but most if it was just different levels of the same thing and even between the different types of armour and weapons 2 or 3  of each type might have been viable. There was often a clear winner in terms of what was better and they didn't play that differently. While its fine to have some special harder to get gear (tho you should have to work for it, not get it of a chance based thing) you have to be carefull not to make it too OP. it’s pointless having so many types if there is no real choice involved and one type invalidates all the others.
Mods where what change things in ME1 and ME3 apparently has those back instead of the just having no trade off upgrades like in ME2  so that should add depth back into equipment customisation. If you add mods that actually come with tradeoffs like ME1, a variety of different viable equipment that actually feels different to use and force players to pick their equipment at the start of a mission based on what you think you will be fighting instead of having it all there and able to be switched out whenever it should add much more depth to combat and preparation.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 05 juin 2011 - 10:26 .

[Darkhour]

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

From what i read in the confirmewd features thread i still havent seen if loot would be in Mass Effect 3
did i miss anything?

God, I hope not.

The closest to an inventory I'd like is like 12 slots, representing utility belt, to hold mods.  If Shep can hold 50 suits of armor and 100 guns... ugh...

[onelifecrisis]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Some weapons are copy protected with Fabrication Rights Management (FRM), though. 

I remember when I first played ME2 and read that... I lol'd so hard!

[darth_lopez]

Darkhour wrote...

Commander Shep4rd wrote...

From what i read in the confirmewd features thread i still havent seen if loot would be in Mass Effect 3
did i miss anything?

God, I hope not.

The
closest to an inventory I'd like is like 12 slots, representing utility
belt, to hold mods.  If Shep can hold 50 suits of armor and 100 guns...
ugh...

What about the storage room on the normandy? i
don't see why Shep can't Quickly acess a datapad and tell folks what to
sell and what to store? Or say a storage room on the kodiac or even a
small section dedicated to extra suits in a vehicle Or a back pack?

[BeefoTheBold]

Manic Sheep wrote...
More options and shops restocking with new stuff yes.
The lack of variety of equipment is a problem but you don't need to bring back looting tons enemies for randomly generated equipment and a carry around inventory to fix that. What we had in ME1 was pretty pointless IMO.
It may technically have had tons of different armour and weapons but most if it was just different levels of the same thing and even between the different types of armour and weapons 2 or 3  of each type might have been viable. There was often a clear winner in terms of what was better and they didn't play that differently. While its fine to have some special harder to get gear (tho you should have to work for it, not get it of a chance based thing) you have to be carefull not to make it too OP. it’s pointless having so many types if there is no real choice involved and one type invalidates all the others.
Mods where what change things in ME1 and ME3 apparently has those back instead of the just having no trade off upgrades like in ME2  so that should add depth back into equipment customisation. If you add mods that actually come with tradeoffs like ME1, a variety of different viable equipment that actually feels different to use and force players to pick their equipment at the start of a mission based on what you think you will be fighting instead of having it all there and able to be switched out whenever it should add much more depth to combat and preparation.

I disagree with part of what you said with regards to tradeoffs.

Gradually upgrading equipment to superior sets over the course of the game is a tried-and-true approach to RPG. It doesn't have to be all at once, and I agree with you that you should have to work for it rather than just having it fall in your lap, but I'm a big fan of gradualling improving a player's equipment as part of the reward system for playing a game.

Look at KOTOR as an example. Sure, you have to work your butt off to get your first light saber, but frankly, light sabers - and Jedi - are superior to just about anything else in the game. And that's a good thing! It fits the lore!

But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have access to some very decent "Tier 2" type equipment just from shops. It can be hideously exensive and make you save your credits up like Scrooge McDuck to acquire, but that's also a tradeoff. Maybe it means that you go with some subpar equipment for a little while as you're saving in the hopes of getting that equipment early?

With drops, I view this as a realism thing. It's not realistic that enemies not have equipment that drops.

Now, I can see the issue with not wanting to have people be walking emporious and carrying an absurd amount. So solve this by placing some severe limits on carrying capacity. If I want to check every enemey I come across on the off-chance that I roll a natural 100 on a D100 dice and get an awesome drop, then that's my way of playing the game. Others might choose not to bother checking each and every corpse after they kill someone.

OR...maybe add timers to quests that limit the amount of time you have for rifling the dead of their belongings.

There's plenty of ways you can include enemies dropping loot without sacrificing momentum.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 05 juin 2011 - 10:46 .

[Sanunes]

The problem with an inventory in Mass Effect 1 is there was just too much stuff that dropped. I know some people liked having a suit of armor for one situation and another for a different one, but on the hole I just left my inventory to become useless and never touched it again after getting my Specter X weapons and my Colossus X armor.

I didn't mind ME2 except for the lack of options, I think I would have been without any real complaints if they had about double the number of weapons available for really it could be believed that there might be a dozen weapons with a different name, but the stats were the same.

What I want with ME3 is to actually see some numbers describing my weapons so I know more about the weapons themselves for in ME2 I spent time guessing or replaying the first little bit of stages to figure out what weapon meets my needs. If what we are picking up is just the mods for weapons and armor I will definitely be okay with that, but I really don't want to show up at a store with 200+ sets of slightly ventilated armor that was just washed to sell.

[Lunatic LK47]

BeefoTheBold wrote...


For me, I really loved the ability to wander around the galaxy browsing through stores to see if I'd find a rare piece of armor like a Colossus light armor. I enjoyed being able to customize my gun with different types of ammunition. This added depth to the gameplay for me and made it feel more like a RPG and less like an artificially constrained shooter. It also made the galaxy feel larger when there was 30 different types of rifles created by different competing companies.

Uh, for a diverse galaxy with a big number of manufacturers, why do all of the combat armor look the same, except with a different color? Are you going to tell me that a state-of-the-art body armor is going to look like it's made from cosplay materials?

What's the fun in a shop that sells exactly 4 different items and never restocks with new surprises? More to the point, where's the realism with that? Taking it one step further, doesn't the galaxy feel a heck of a lot smaller if there are only a handful of different items to choose from?

Uh, what's the fun in buying from a shop that only restocks when you level up? (yes, that's right, they only restock when you gain a level) Last time I checked, by the time you get level 60, you're not able to buy new items in subsequent playthroughs unless you want to start another New Game+

[billywaffles]

Well, the new armor system cannot be worst than the one from me2, which is an epic fail of a design (pay bw points or gtfo).

Modifié par billywaffles, 05 juin 2011 - 10:57 .